Tampa Bay’s Defense Is Good But Not As Good As They Looked In Super Bowl

[shabazz]

Are you a Cowboys fan or Buccs one?

Risen’s always been a fan of 2 things

1. The Truth
2. Everything Rockport

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Sure man, I can boil it down a bit.

I was saying that in the SB, Tampa completely changed everything they did on defense the last two years and totally blindsided KC and Mahomes. That was said right after the SB by Trent Dilfer. I translated what Dilfer said, which helped make it very long.

Tamp’s defense was good but not dominant against teams like Washington… which aren’t nearly as good on offense as KC. So why so successful against Mahomes and not Taylor Heineke and Washington (and KC in the regular season)? Because they blindsided KC in the SB by changing everything they did on defense. Dilfer said that it was like Mahomes and Reid game planned and practiced for a different team than the one they saw in the SB.

Dilfer said (and I agree) that having their starting OT’s in KC wouldn’t have mattered that ,UCB.

Basically, Tampa has a good defense but not one that is as dominant as they looked against Mahomes.

I didn’t really draw many conclusions as to what it means for Dallas on Thursday.

Maybe I should have done this in the OP, lol. I know it was too long.

Okay....that;'s fine. But I tell you again...Tampa did the right things ALL SEASON LONG. They never panicked that stayed their course.

Maybe they did catch KC off guard.....but......

You are making up things in your head to make it look like they aren't a Super Bowl champion team. The fact that they "changed everything they did" for KC should scare the living ship out of ya.

 

[AsthmaField]

You realize we are in agreement? I’m not making anything up. I’m not even talking about what it means for Thursday’s game.

I agree they did all the right things. I agree they’re good. But they did catch the, off guard and it did make a big difference.

That’s all I’m saying.

 

[blueblood70]

TB run stopping strength is up the middle. Cowboys should have ability to threaten the edges, especially if they can gameplan to neutralize Lavonte David.

But no matter what, Cowboys need to remain balanced and stick with run because I would hate to see Cowboys become one dimensional and let that TB defense tee up on Dak, who is still not 100%.

you let me know when Moore is patient with the run game and does much of anything as game scheming runs and to the outside..hes not done much at all..

BTW that TB defense stopped all teams from going over 80 yards you dont think thy didnt try to go outside LOL great elite defense typically dictates to offenses..i hope our comes grown up and ready..lol

nw year lots pof tape to study them for game 1 that sthe advantage we had getting them game 1 because its the most time we can study for one team..the best team in the nfl..

 

[blueblood70]

but KC did run for over a 100 yards, including 75 from their RBs....they did that with only 17 attempts....vs. 49 pass attempts

its just the average over 16 regulars games they only gave up 80 per game..

i think moore needs to stay patent even if its 3.0 ypc keep running use better formations to hep the Backs..hes not shown hes patient with the run game.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

its just the average over 16 regulars games they only gave up 80 per game..

i think moore needs to stay patent even if its 3.0 ypc keep running use better formations to hep the Backs..hes not shown hes patient with the run game.

I agree, even if don't average a lot running the ball, its staying with it and total number of runs that matter more. with that said, it also means having to convert a lot of third downs so that we don't have a lot of 3 and outs

 

[Ranched]

MEANWHILE....

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Risen’s always been a fan of 2 things

1. The Truth
2. Everything Rockport

But, does he know when anvils are around? *looks in my ACME book and picks out a new anvil* Planning on using this on Tampa.

 

[plasticman]

They seemed more than just solid against the Green Bay Packers in the conference championship.

At the most critical part of the game, the middle of the 3rd quarter to deep into the 4th quarter, Tom Brady threw three consecutive INT's, giving the Packer's offense an additional three drives. That's the Green Bay Packers as in their QB is Aaron "freakin' Rodgers?

The last two of those Packer drives were three and out.

The Buc defense won that game. The Bucs defense sent that team to the Super Bowl. I believe them when they say they are even better now. You would expect that from a defense returning all 11 of their starters from the previous season.

 

[BourbonBalz]

What’s the point of saying something stupid?

Is anything I said there incorrect?

This is the reality we face. trying to educate you so if we lose we don’t jump off a cliff like many homers do when we lose.

How do you know our defense won’t have success against Brady? You couldn’t teach a frog to hop, yet you’re a legend in your own mind..

 

[GORICO]

EDIT: I apologize for the length here, but a lot of this post is a radio show that I transcribed what Trent Dilfer said about Tampa’s defense in the Super Bowl. Obviously, it might be too long for some to read but some might enjoy hearing an Ex-NFL QB explaining what happened in that game, and why their defense isn’t as good as they looked that day. When I’m transcribing what Dilfer says, I put it in italics. What I say is in normal font.

I keep hearing people talking about how great the Tampa defense is, mainly in relation to how ordinary they made Mahomes look in the super bowl… particularly how much their pass rush got to Patrick.

I have to say, they are a good defense and they can get to the QB, for sure. However, they aren’t the dominant defense that they appeared to be in the super bowl. They have some talent but they are very well coached, both from the head coach (Arians is good) and from their defensive coordinator Todd Bowles, which makes them look better than their talent says they should be.

Their defense looked solid against Green Bay and Washington but they didn’t look nearly as great as they looked against the Mahomes led Chiefs. In fact, the terrible Washington offense looked better than KC against them. Why was that?

Was it the KC missing both OT’s? No it was not. Tampa’d D didn’t dominate Kansas City in the SB because KC was missing their two OT’s (although that helped for sure), they dominated because Arians and Bowles completely changed what they had been doing in defense for the past couple of years.

Trent Dilfer was on the Doug Gottlieb show on Fox Sports Radio right after the Super Bowl last year and Doug Gottlieb asked him how TB so thoroughly shut down a high powered KC attack and asked if the OT’s being out made that much of a difference. Trent said it wasn’t just the OT’s being out, that it was more what Tampa was doing schematically against KC that made it so lopsided.

What Dilfer said was interesting because he has played QB in the NFL (and in a super bowl) and knows more than just about anyone else in the media about reading defenses and what defenses are trying to do to a QB and the offense. Despite just being an average QB, he is very, very good at analysis and has a ton of knowledge.

Anyway, I couldn’t remember exactly what he said, so I had to go back and find the Podcast of that show and re-listen to how Trent describes it. I pretty much had to listen to a couple of sentences and then write down what he was saying. Below, I describe what he said that explains why Tampa was so dominant against the Chiefs:

Here is the link to the podcasts if anyone wants to go find the February 8th podcast and listen for themselves. It was in the first hour of the show.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1-the-doug-gottlieb-show-28117179/

Here is what Dilfer said about the Tampa Bay Defense on the Super Bowl:

Start Dilfer.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

KC went in wanting to throw short, perimeter screens to slow down the Tampa Bay pass rush, which is a typical west coast offense philosophy on how to combat a good pass rush. Todd Bowles and the Tampa defense knew that’s what Andy Reid was going to do.

Dilfer said that Tampa and Todd Bowles really reconstructed their defense for the super bowl. Not only were they anticipating and prepared for KC answers to their pass rush, but they were giving Mahomes pictures on the sidelines of a defense that they hadn’t seen. He said that there was no way that KC could have prepared for that Tampa defense because it was so out of character for what they had done all season long. The previous season too.

Bowles is a pressure guy. He normally likes to get the safety involved in bracket coverage. He’s a lot of man coverage guy with some unique looks he gives you. In this game they changed their front up a little bit. They lightened the box and played as deep as Dilfer had ever seen a Bowles defense play in the secondary. They lined up in a real high 3-shell or 2-shell and then dropped what he calls an insert person that comes up to support the run but also handles crossing routes, TE over the middle and handled a lot of the RPO and screen stuff. He said that Bowles essentially bet that a front 6 (instead of front 7) would be able to stop the KC run game. He said that Bowles was also banking on Andy Reid’s history that he would abandon the run game. Andy wants to throw more than he runs it.

He said Bowles was basically saying “I dare you to run it 28 times in the A and B gaps… I know that your DNA won’t let you do that.” So Tampa built a defense around Reid’s DNA. They build a very detailed, pass coverage concepts and flooded the passing lanes to disrupt what KC wanted to do in the passing game. And Tampa said that no matter what, we’re not going to let Tyreek Hill (or anyone) get vertical on us. No matter what, they had a deeper guy than Hill on every single play.

None of that is how Bowles defenses had been at any point in his time with Tampa Bay. He said Tampa is normally a lot more aggressive on defense but in this game they more just kept everything in front of them and flooded the passing lanes.

Dilfer said that KC really needed to run the ball against that defense and they just didn’t. He said they needed to have some time of possession and keep the ball but instead they kept having really short possessions and giving the ball back to Brady. He said KC needed some play action and to establish a running game against this defense. However, the KC game plan was what you should do against the normal Bowles Tampa defense… not the odd way that Bowles was playing that was so different than any they had seen… and Reid just didn’t make any adjustments to Bowles trickery.

He said that early on, when KC did actually run the ball, it was successful. They just didn’t do it very often at all.

He said he gives Bowles and Tampa a ton of credit for how they approached that match-up and how they changed just about everything they did on defense to utterly surprise KC. He said Bowles did a great job of teaching his defenders how to do a bunch of new stuff in a very short amount of time. He said that KC just had no counter to it because they had practiced against a completely different defense for the entire time.

He said that Bruce Arians offense also went completely against his own DNA in this game as well, catching the KC defense off guard a little bit too. They played differently on offense than they had, calling a much more patient game than Arians normally does. Very little deep passing when Arians is normally very aggressive. Normally he’s a “no risk it, no biscuit” coach but he called completely different game. They put in what Dilfer said are some college plays… some RPO’s and things that he’s never seen Brady do. They wanted to control the ball and took a lot less risks than normal.

END Dilfer

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It wasn’t a matter of Tampa’s defense and players just being dominant. They weren’t simply that much better than KC. They basically completely surprised Mahomes and Andy Reid, and Reid never really adjusted for some reason.

It wasn’t that the OL just couldn’t protect Mahomes, it was that Mahomes was seeing something completely different than what he had prepared for in the two weeks leading up to the game. He was confused and holding on to the ball too long or was making bad decisions about where to throw the ball. It completely messed up everything that KC was going to do on offense because it was essentially like they had prepared for the wrong team before the game. Everything was different.

Throw in that KC had lost both OT’s and it just made it that much worse… but make no mistake, their starting tackles wouldn’t have helped KC much in that game. They were doomed from the kickoff because of Arians and Bowles brilliant sneak attack. They absolutely surprised and confused KC in the biggest game of the year.

That parallels common sense too in that they didn’t look nearly so dominant against other teams in the playoffs, including a putrid Washington offense that looked much better than Kansas City against them.

What does that mean for Dallas on Thursday? Well, for starters it means that Tampa’s defense isn’t nearly the dominant unit that we all remember last seeing. They looked so good because schematically, they changed everything… which likely won’t happen in the first game of the year. Bowles will again likely be doing what he always does. They are a good defense but they aren’t the 85 Bears, which is how they looked in the SB.

Dallas has a chance to score some points, even with Martin out. I think they will have some success against Tampa’s defense. How much is the question.

Ultimately, it will come down to the Dallas defense against Brady’s offense and how much they can slow them down.

Asthma---man i just dont want us to get blown out by first or second quarter...and then maybe miracles occur in second half like untimely turnovers and ref calls against Bucs and our offense makes miraculous TD's...but on paper

i am nervous......if they fall in line with Brady...and Brady dont look like any 44 year old QB...he can still throw that perfect mechanics looking power spiral.....we must have great game plan both on D and Offense...i have to workout now to bu

burn off anxiety of game.....yes i need to get a life

 

[JoeKing]

I bet they are good enough.

 

[Brax]

EDIT: I apologize for the length here, but a lot of this post is a radio show that I transcribed what Trent Dilfer said about Tampa’s defense in the Super Bowl. Obviously, it might be too long for some to read but some might enjoy hearing an Ex-NFL QB explaining what happened in that game, and why their defense isn’t as good as they looked that day. When I’m transcribing what Dilfer says, I put it in italics. What I say is in normal font.

I keep hearing people talking about how great the Tampa defense is, mainly in relation to how ordinary they made Mahomes look in the super bowl… particularly how much their pass rush got to Patrick.

I have to say, they are a good defense and they can get to the QB, for sure. However, they aren’t the dominant defense that they appeared to be in the super bowl. They have some talent but they are very well coached, both from the head coach (Arians is good) and from their defensive coordinator Todd Bowles, which makes them look better than their talent says they should be.

Their defense looked solid against Green Bay and Washington but they didn’t look nearly as great as they looked against the Mahomes led Chiefs. In fact, the terrible Washington offense looked better than KC against them. Why was that?

Was it the KC missing both OT’s? No it was not. Tampa’d D didn’t dominate Kansas City in the SB because KC was missing their two OT’s (although that helped for sure), they dominated because Arians and Bowles completely changed what they had been doing in defense for the past couple of years.

Trent Dilfer was on the Doug Gottlieb show on Fox Sports Radio right after the Super Bowl last year and Doug Gottlieb asked him how TB so thoroughly shut down a high powered KC attack and asked if the OT’s being out made that much of a difference. Trent said it wasn’t just the OT’s being out, that it was more what Tampa was doing schematically against KC that made it so lopsided.

What Dilfer said was interesting because he has played QB in the NFL (and in a super bowl) and knows more than just about anyone else in the media about reading defenses and what defenses are trying to do to a QB and the offense. Despite just being an average QB, he is very, very good at analysis and has a ton of knowledge.

Anyway, I couldn’t remember exactly what he said, so I had to go back and find the Podcast of that show and re-listen to how Trent describes it. I pretty much had to listen to a couple of sentences and then write down what he was saying. Below, I describe what he said that explains why Tampa was so dominant against the Chiefs:

Here is the link to the podcasts if anyone wants to go find the February 8th podcast and listen for themselves. It was in the first hour of the show.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1-the-doug-gottlieb-show-28117179/

Here is what Dilfer said about the Tampa Bay Defense on the Super Bowl:

Start Dilfer.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

KC went in wanting to throw short, perimeter screens to slow down the Tampa Bay pass rush, which is a typical west coast offense philosophy on how to combat a good pass rush. Todd Bowles and the Tampa defense knew that’s what Andy Reid was going to do.

Dilfer said that Tampa and Todd Bowles really reconstructed their defense for the super bowl. Not only were they anticipating and prepared for KC answers to their pass rush, but they were giving Mahomes pictures on the sidelines of a defense that they hadn’t seen. He said that there was no way that KC could have prepared for that Tampa defense because it was so out of character for what they had done all season long. The previous season too.

Bowles is a pressure guy. He normally likes to get the safety involved in bracket coverage. He’s a lot of man coverage guy with some unique looks he gives you. In this game they changed their front up a little bit. They lightened the box and played as deep as Dilfer had ever seen a Bowles defense play in the secondary. They lined up in a real high 3-shell or 2-shell and then dropped what he calls an insert person that comes up to support the run but also handles crossing routes, TE over the middle and handled a lot of the RPO and screen stuff. He said that Bowles essentially bet that a front 6 (instead of front 7) would be able to stop the KC run game. He said that Bowles was also banking on Andy Reid’s history that he would abandon the run game. Andy wants to throw more than he runs it.

He said Bowles was basically saying “I dare you to run it 28 times in the A and B gaps… I know that your DNA won’t let you do that.” So Tampa built a defense around Reid’s DNA. They build a very detailed, pass coverage concepts and flooded the passing lanes to disrupt what KC wanted to do in the passing game. And Tampa said that no matter what, we’re not going to let Tyreek Hill (or anyone) get vertical on us. No matter what, they had a deeper guy than Hill on every single play.

None of that is how Bowles defenses had been at any point in his time with Tampa Bay. He said Tampa is normally a lot more aggressive on defense but in this game they more just kept everything in front of them and flooded the passing lanes.

Dilfer said that KC really needed to run the ball against that defense and they just didn’t. He said they needed to have some time of possession and keep the ball but instead they kept having really short possessions and giving the ball back to Brady. He said KC needed some play action and to establish a running game against this defense. However, the KC game plan was what you should do against the normal Bowles Tampa defense… not the odd way that Bowles was playing that was so different than any they had seen… and Reid just didn’t make any adjustments to Bowles trickery.

He said that early on, when KC did actually run the ball, it was successful. They just didn’t do it very often at all.

He said he gives Bowles and Tampa a ton of credit for how they approached that match-up and how they changed just about everything they did on defense to utterly surprise KC. He said Bowles did a great job of teaching his defenders how to do a bunch of new stuff in a very short amount of time. He said that KC just had no counter to it because they had practiced against a completely different defense for the entire time.

He said that Bruce Arians offense also went completely against his own DNA in this game as well, catching the KC defense off guard a little bit too. They played differently on offense than they had, calling a much more patient game than Arians normally does. Very little deep passing when Arians is normally very aggressive. Normally he’s a “no risk it, no biscuit” coach but he called completely different game. They put in what Dilfer said are some college plays… some RPO’s and things that he’s never seen Brady do. They wanted to control the ball and took a lot less risks than normal.

END Dilfer

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It wasn’t a matter of Tampa’s defense and players just being dominant. They weren’t simply that much better than KC. They basically completely surprised Mahomes and Andy Reid, and Reid never really adjusted for some reason.

It wasn’t that the OL just couldn’t protect Mahomes, it was that Mahomes was seeing something completely different than what he had prepared for in the two weeks leading up to the game. He was confused and holding on to the ball too long or was making bad decisions about where to throw the ball. It completely messed up everything that KC was going to do on offense because it was essentially like they had prepared for the wrong team before the game. Everything was different.

Throw in that KC had lost both OT’s and it just made it that much worse… but make no mistake, their starting tackles wouldn’t have helped KC much in that game. They were doomed from the kickoff because of Arians and Bowles brilliant sneak attack. They absolutely surprised and confused KC in the biggest game of the year.

That parallels common sense too in that they didn’t look nearly so dominant against other teams in the playoffs, including a putrid Washington offense that looked much better than Kansas City against them.

What does that mean for Dallas on Thursday? Well, for starters it means that Tampa’s defense isn’t nearly the dominant unit that we all remember last seeing. They looked so good because schematically, they changed everything… which likely won’t happen in the first game of the year. Bowles will again likely be doing what he always does. They are a good defense but they aren’t the 85 Bears, which is how they looked in the SB.

Dallas has a chance to score some points, even with Martin out. I think they will have some success against Tampa’s defense. How much is the question.

Ultimately, it will come down to the Dallas defense against Brady’s offense and how much they can slow them down.

Very good post, I just don't understand how anyone can say Tampa Bay’s Defense Is Good But Not As Good As They Looked In Super Bowl. when they haven't player a game yet. The DC did a great job game planning which is his job and it was executed very well, what makes you think he isn't going to game plan for the strengths and weaknesses of the Cowboys.

 

[visionary]

I didn’t really even talk about what will happen between Dallas and Tampa. I was basically talking about how Tampa looked in the super bowl vs how they looked in the rest of last season and the playoffs.

No telling what will happen Thursday night.

ok, fair but you’re making the argument that they looked “better “ because they changed everything in 2 weeks so they are not as good as they seemed. Does it not stand to reason then that

their coaches and players are so smart they can completely change their defense seamlessly is 2 weeks and crush a stronger opponent so aren’t they likely to look even “better” against a weaker opponent given several months since most of the coaches and players are still there?

if so, I don’t understand the point of this thread

 

[AsthmaField]

ok, fair but you’re making the argument that they looked “better “ because they changed everything in 2 weeks so they are not as good as they seemed. Does it not stand to reason then that

their coaches and players are so smart they can completely change their defense seamlessly is 2 weeks and crush a stronger opponent so aren’t they likely to look even “better” against a weaker opponent given several months since most of the coaches and players are still there?

if so, I don’t understand the point of this thread

They could change things up for their defense… but you can only completely surprise the league with something like that once. Now, teams have seen them do that on film and nobody would be blind-sided by it.

Of course they do have talent and they are very well coached… so it is going to be a tough defense for Dallas to open against. I know that.

My whole point with this thread is that the reason they dismantled KC was because they pulled that switch and did everything that they had never done before. KC was so out of sorts that they looked terrible. If they played 10 times, it would have only shocked KC like that and surprised them once.

That trick is only going to work one time. That is why they saved it for the super bowl.

Now, I think Bowles is going to have a great game plan for Dallas, like he always does… and it will be difficult on Dallas. I’m not saying it won’t. But they will probably be doing mostly things that Dallas has seen on film, so it will be easier than it was on Mahomes.

 

[AsthmaField]

Very good post, I just don't understand how anyone can say Tampa Bay’s Defense Is Good But Not As Good As They Looked In Super Bowl. when they haven't player a game yet. The DC did a great job game planning which is his job and it was executed very well, what makes you think he isn't going to game plan for the strengths and weaknesses of the Cowboys.

Bowles will game plan for the strengths of the Cowboys offense. I know that, just like I know that it is going to be very difficult scoring on Tampa. But they cannot blindside Dallas with playing completely differently than they had for every other game because they did that already in the last game they played. It is on film now.

I wasn’t saying Dallas will have an easy time of it at all. It won’t be easy against a well coached group of defenders. I was saying that Mahones looked so terrible because they had never seen Tampa play that was and was completely unprepared for it.

that’s all I’m saying really.

 

[AsthmaField]

I bet they are good enough.

They are very good.

 

[chicago JK]

I wish I had confidence in this Cowboy team. The Buccs are good, but they are probably being over inflated due to having Brady, winning the super bowl and having all their starters return. I mean, they are in the best spot right now. But we have seen it forever....just because you won the prior year doesn't mean you win the next year.

Tampa Bay has spent the whole offseason enjoying winning the super bowl and hearing everyone talk how good they are. The Cowboys should be frothing at the mouth to put Tampa Back to reality. But we have seen too many times that this Cowboys franchise doesn't deliver this messages.

The pre-season is now about not getting your real starters hurt. Where this Cowboys team is now though, I would have liked to see some players get some time, because the start of our season is so important (two tough road games). The season is long, but getting in an 0-2 hole is something I don't think this team can play out of....they just haven't proven this.

So with the limited preseason work, here is how I see things playing out on Thursday. Cowboys get off to a quick start and score 14 points a little into quarter 2. At the same time, they make a few silly mistakes that keeps the Buccs close. Middle of the third quarter, we see some pulled muscles and guys leaving the game due to cramps. Buccs make some big plays and make it a 3 point game going into the fourth. The Buccs defense tightens up and get the ball back down 1 with 2 minutes left. Brady makes several big pass plays to get Tampa in field goal range where their kicker makes a 39 yard field goal with time expiring to win the game. This board is filled with comments on how the refs screwed us.

I hope I am wrong, but after years of rooting for the Jerry Jones post the Jimmy years, I have not expectations this year will be any different. I certainly want to be wrong though.

 

[DanA]

There is no doubt we are at a disadvantage given the following

• They're Super Bowl Champions returning with the same team and coaches.
• We have a completely new defense with likely five new starters (Odigi, Watkins, Parsons, Neale, Kazee) and a brand new DC.
• We haven't had continuity on offense with Dak injured for a chunk of the off-season
• Dak is coming off a long injury layoff and may have some rust

So I don't think we will see the best of Dallas in week 1 but that doesn't mean we lay down without a fight. This is a good barometer game to see where we are at, and where we need to get to. We obviously aren't favorites but it's not unwinnable either.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think at the very least TB is a top 10 defense that played great in the SB. Cowboys offense will have their hands full, TB defense will make some plays Cowboys just can't afford to shoot themselves in the foot to help TB defense along the way. As Jimmy Johnson once said it is not always the team that makes the most plays who win but the team who makes the fewest mistakes.