Team Needs

[Alexander]

This is the truth of the matter.

Great DB's with no passrush = poor defense
Great passrush with no DB's = poor defense.

You need both. Your chances of defensive success is better if you have a great pass rush though. But you have to have some coverage skills back there. A group of Jeff Heaths at the back end will fail no matter how good your pass rush is.

Like all arguments there is rarely ever a correct answer on one side of the extreme. Truth is found somewhere in the middle.

But if I am taking one of the two being stronger, I take the pass rush, all day, every day. It is the area I would make sure I always had stronger and spend the majority of resources when given the choice.

 

[Doomsday101]

This is the truth of the matter.

Great DB's with no passrush = poor defense
Great passrush with no DB's = poor defense.

You need both. Your chances of defensive success is better if you have a great pass rush though. But you have to have some coverage skills back there. A group of Jeff Heaths at the back end will fail no matter how good your pass rush is.

I agree. Dallas defense also ranked 27th aginst the run a big part of the GB win was Eddie Lacy putting up 141 yards rushing on us. A running game can slow down a pass rush

 

[xwalker]

I thought crawford was a dt? Did I miss something?

They planned to play him at DE last year. He practiced at DE in the offseason and the 1 snap in training camp where he got injured.

 

[Little Jr]

They planned to play him at DE last year. He practiced at DE in the offseason and the 1 snap in training camp where he got injured.

Yeah last I knew. I hadn't heard him at de this year though.

 

[ShiningStar]

I dont care how grwat you think your d kine is..if the qb can get the ball off..he will...at some point we need a safety that can say..you might get the ball off..but ill take it and punish you...right now we dont do that....

We know this season is a wash..if you believe anything else..well..good luck to you. ...Garrettwill ride guys who should be cut but wont be....that whole d line cannot receive the most of the crop but dallas should consider dropping back and picking up pics and bring in mid round guys that u dont invest heavily but you get the same production but find a gem or two. Than id bring in some depth for the o line. ....and yes kiddies..once again ill read your future...romo is not going the whole season injury free....bring in his replacement or a young guy...get experience time....

2014 Dallas cowboys. .where the record doesn't matter..nor does the head coach. Time for the players to stop listening until the owner starts listening

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And that has a lot more validity than "you can never have enough cornerbacks".

A deep rotational DL won us championships when we had Larry Brown and Kevin Smith starting at CB for us. Our third CB in those days consisted of Ike Holt in '92 and Kenny Gant in '93. The Giants have won multiple Super Bowls in recent years with hardly an all-star corner group.

Kevin Smith was tremendous before he hurt his achilles. The secondary struggled until they signed Everett. Then of course there was Woodson and Washington. Guys like Darrin Smith, Dixon Edwards, and Ken Norton could all run and cover. It was the 90s and not the age of 4 wides outside of Houston. Nickel and dime often meant an extra safety back in those days and Gant made plenty of plays.

As has been pointed out, the Giants have invested heavily in their secondary during those titles and your characterization is off base.

 

[Kaiser]

Curious to see what people order them as. I have:

DT - Ben Bass and Nick Hayden are our starting DT as of right now.

DE - Crawford's return helps and Selvie has something but we need to start looking for Ware's replacement pronto.

OG/C - We have very poor depth here. Costa is first man up and not exactly inspiring. At guard the pickings are especially slim with names like Rey Dominguez and a bunch of futures types.

I think these are the three big needs, followed by a WLB, deep threat WR, CB with some size and a developmental QB.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And i do want to say that I agree that dline is where you should start. A good dline rushes the passer and controls the point of attack on running plays on most running plays. That being said anyone who has watched this team over the Demarcus Ware era knows that his pass rush has been blunted repeatedly by poor coverage.

Now back to your mindless TRENCHZORZES ideology.

 

[LatinMind]

And i do want to say that I agree that dline is where you should start. A good dline rushes the passer and controls the point of attack on running plays on most running plays. That being said anyone who has watched this team over the Demarcus Ware era knows that his pass rush has been blunted repeatedly by poor coverage.

Now back to your mindless TRENCHZORZES ideology.

Talk about mindlessness

you are comparing schemes from a 3-4 to a tampa 2? wow

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Talk about mindlessness

you are comparing schemes from a 3-4 to a tampa 2? wow

yeah cause that is what I did. . .

you can run a cover 2 behind a 3-4 anyway run one of the ILB up the deep middle anyway. We didn't do that but the idea here is that you need people that can cover in either scheme. If your corners cannot cover single moves and give up slants and curls all day long youre going to suck in any scheme

 

[LatinMind]

yeah cause that is what I did. . .

you can run a cover 2 behind a 3-4 anyway run one of the ILB up the deep middle anyway. We didn't do that but the idea here is that you need people that can cover in either scheme. If your corners cannot cover single moves and give up slants and curls all day long youre going to suck in any scheme

ok, Dallas plays alot of zone, so the CBs are off the WRs right? What happens? Teams did what they did to these guys all yr. Call that inside slant where the CB doesnt have a chance because theres no passrush. Theres a big pocket and lanes that the QB can see thru.

An example of suspect CB play but you get that pressure. GB game, GB is playing zone, Austin runs that in and Romo is going to throw it, but Mathews disrupts it by filling that lane and rushing twards him, Romo has to pull it down and reload, INT.

Think you should understand what teams do to hide their weaknesses in the backend. before dismissing the importance of a passrush. You can hide weaknesses in the backend, but you cant hide the lack of a passrush.

 

[Alexander]

Kevin Smith was tremendous before he hurt his achilles. The secondary struggled until they signed Everett. Then of course there was Woodson and Washington. Guys like Darrin Smith, Dixon Edwards, and Ken Norton could all run and cover. It was the 90s and not the age of 4 wides outside of Houston. Nickel and dime often meant an extra safety back in those days and Gant made plenty of plays.

As has been pointed out, the Giants have invested heavily in their secondary during those titles and your characterization is off base.

Going back to 2008 the Giants spent a first on Aaron Ross, a second on Terrell Thomas and a first on Kenny Phillips. Amukamara had minimal impact in 2011. They took three defensive linemen in the first three rounds during that same time period.

Dallas on the other hand spent two first round picks on CBs and invested a second considering they gave it up for the right to draft Claiborne. They also spent a third on Wilcox. We drafted exactly one defensive linemen in premium rounds (Crawford) in the last five years.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Going back to 2008 the Giants spent a first on Aaron Ross, a second on Terrell Thomas and a first on Kenny Phillips. Amukamara had minimal impact in 2011. They took three defensive linemen in the first three rounds during that same time period.

Dallas on the other hand spent two first round picks on CBs and invested a second considering they gave it up for the right to draft Claiborne. They also spent a third on Wilcox. We drafted exactly one defensive linemen in premium rounds (Crawford) in the last five years.

I'm not going to argue against the Cowboys needing to invest in DL.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

ok, Dallas plays alot of zone, so the CBs are off the WRs right? What happens? Teams did what they did to these guys all yr. Call that inside slant where the CB doesnt have a chance because theres no passrush. Theres a big pocket and lanes that the QB can see thru.

An example of suspect CB play but you get that pressure. GB game, GB is playing zone, Austin runs that in and Romo is going to throw it, but Mathews disrupts it by filling that lane and rushing twards him, Romo has to pull it down and reload, INT.

Think you should understand what teams do to hide their weaknesses in the backend. before dismissing the importance of a passrush. You can hide weaknesses in the backend, but you cant hide the lack of a passrush.

I'm not arguing that pass rush isn't important. I'm not going to argue that our lack of a pass rush did not leave our secondary hung out to dry.

 

[casmith07]

Safeties. All we need is every safety in the draft, according to the zone.

 

[DogFace]

Get with the program. Three step drops make pass rushers meaningless. It's all about coverage. We need to find more corners capable of covering for 2 seconds in a phone booth. It's a rare trait.

And don't even act like you don't see all these teams operating exclusively out of the three step drop or that that kind of limited offense would swing the advantage firmly to the defense. That's nonsense and you know it.

Tight end. I've heard we will be running a lot of 3 tight end sets this year.

 

[4lifecowboy]

Get with the program. Three step drops make pass rushers meaningless. It's all about coverage. We need to find more corners capable of covering for 2 seconds in a phone booth. It's a rare trait.

And don't even act like you don't see all these teams operating exclusively out of the three step drop or that that kind of limited offense would swing the advantage firmly to the defense. That's nonsense and you know it.

Upgrading the secondary is right up there with upgrading the DL, a capable FS would go a long way to improving the secondary. What we need on the DL is a gang of capable bodies at all position. I would much rather add 4 or more capable lineman then 1 high draft pick.

Pryor (FS) with the 1, Quarles (DT) with the 2, and K. Martin (DE) with the 3 would address all those issues.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

How do you guys feel about pass rush v pass coverage? I feel like that's ground that hasn't been sufficiently covered in here.

I interrupt the 134,534th session of the Great Ongoing Pass Rush v Pass Coverage Debate to point out that there seems to be consensus that our DL stinks and needs significant help.

 

[burmafrd]

QB, RB, TE, WR, C, LT, CB. That to me covers 10 of the 22 starting positions.

So we need 12 positions improved. Now we can waffle a little at DE if Ware comes back; and DT if Crawford is what we hope. So say that makes 10. We have 10 draft picks. So in each round we take (except for 7th where we have multiple picks) the BPA at a position of need or one that we have not yet picked that draft.

Lee and Carter are wild cards because one is never healthy and the other regressed. I would put all LB positions as positions of need.

 

[big dog cowboy]

But if I am taking one of the two being stronger, I take the pass rush, all day, every day. It is the area I would make sure I always had stronger and spend the majority of resources when given the choice.

Pretty easy call. Hopefully the front office does the right thing this off season.