CFZ That Special Player

[Flamma]

How did that team not win a ring they also had Robert Smith I believe at tailback.

Gary Anderson missed a 30 something yard FG that would have sealed the game. As a result, we were denied what could have been one of the best SB matchups in NFL history between a 14-2 Broncos team, and a 15-1 Vikings team.

 

[Flamma]

No matter what the "needs" of a team might be, passing on a generational player is an automatic decrease in the value of your pick. Even if your pick was a quarterback, he is a lesser selection.

I agree completely. However, I'm not sure teams pass on generational talent for need. Generational talent is usually in hindsight. Did teams pass on Parsons for need? Or did they not expect him to be this good? My guess is if we redrafted the 2021 draft, Parsons doesn't get even close to the Cowboys pick.

 

[stuckindc]

How did that team not win a ring they also had Robert Smith I believe at tailback.

Their kicker missed a huge field goal in the NFCCG

 

[Flamma]

Their kicker missed a huge field goal in the NFCCG

That was a damn shame. We got a crap SB as a result. Not only that, but we could have seen the first team to ever lose 5 SBs in a row!!! Even though the first one the Vikings lost doesn't really count.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Gary Anderson missed a 30 something yard FG that would have sealed the game. As a result, we were denied what could have been one of the best SB matchups in NFL history between a 14-2 Broncos team, and a 15-1 Vikings team.

Damn too young to remember that lol. Was Cunningham the qb?

 

[blueblood70]

Here's hoping that Parsons is more of a Zack than a Zeke.

here we go, how so?? best rb his first 3-4 seasons and should have had 3 rushing crowns right out of college.. NFL careers are short and his ran its course,

no way was his pick a mistake nor did zeke keep us from winning. team game, he did his job, not much better 4-6 consecutive years at running back excellence then Zeke , go back and see his B2B college years were 1800 yards and he caried those offenses had 200 yard games in the college playoffs with jags at QB, comes in as rookie NFL back and immediately has, BY FAR, the best rookie season as DC RB ever since 1960, should have been ROTY not Dak, Zeke carried that offense like, he did in college much like ES22 did for troy,

if not for the bogus suspension he wins the 2017 season big and 18 anther rushing crown, 2019 we change OCs change the offense yet still a very good season in scrimmage yards. he finished his career here still the top production back in the nfl since 2016 only slipping here of late over injury.. he also finished 3rd all time in DC history had better career then Gayle sayers over the same period twice the stats, yet Sayers gets at a boy HOF induction with nothing, no ring , low stats...

thats to me not impressive in a run heavy era, Zeke also had as good a career as Terrell Davis and he and Henry were neck and neck..the lack of respect is ridiculous.. zeke was taken 4th overall and his career shows he as an individual more than lived up to the hype. his body gave out on him but he did flash the first half of the last 2 seasons.,

just stop the Zeke hate,, the man was actually great..

BTW Martin is on the same failed teams as zeke, hes equally responsible for not having success. that OL been the main issue in all our playoff losses, go check, no run game, no holes, poor pass protection but sure knock Zeke, trash Dak but martin is Teflon? so hes one of 53 players, all responsible for the losses, that's a fact.

so zeke held out got paid and didn't do a lot after the $$ but we all know the real reason but because of that contract this fan base refuses to acknowledge zeke was great back part of many team failures,.

 

[Flamma]

Damn too young to remember that lol. Was Cunningham the qb?

He was!! Had the best year of his career. Randy Moss helped a lot too. His supporting cast played a huge role. I just don't think they beat that Broncos team. But hey, 15-1 can beat anyone, right? You never know. Instead, we got a crap SB that was decided before the coin toss.

 

[Proof]

Thanks for that. Should it be 53 years and not 73 if you are going from 1970?

We were so close to derwin James. Didn't think he was going to drop that far and really wanted us to trade up a few spots for him.

Shouldn't we disqualify those on the list that this board complains about talking too much? Surely that should be a consideration.

I wanted Derwin so bad. They seemed to be so locked into LVE though, that had he made it to our pick I think they still would have passed on him.

 

[plasticman]

Jerry Dumbo GM Jones passed on Randy Moss.

Add Tony Dorsett (ROY/Super Bowl Champ), Paul Warfield, and Dan Marino (Pro Bowl 1983 rookie year) to the list. Here are the other QBs that made the Pro Bowl their rookie year. All either are still in the league, made the playoffs, Conference Championship Game, Super Bowl or won the Super Bowl at some point in their careers.

Team ownership, management and coaching can determine the fate of a lot of generational talented players.

	NAME	SEASON	TM	GP	PROBOWL	CMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	AVG	YDS/G	TD	TD%	INT	INT%	SCK	SCKY	RATE
	Dak Prescott	2016	DAL	16	1	311	459	67.8	3,667	8.0	229.2	23	5.0	4	0.9	25	143	104.9
	Jameis Winston	2015	TB	16	1	312	535	58.3	4,042	7.6	252.6	22	4.1	15	2.8	27	190	84.2
	Robert Griffin III	2012	WAS	15	1	258	393	65.6	3,200	8.1	213.3	20	5.1	5	1.3	30	217	102.4
	Andrew Luck	2012	IND	16	1	339	627	54.1	4,374	7.0	273.4	23	3.7	18	2.9	41	246	76.5
	Russell Wilson	2012	SEA	16	1	252	393	64.1	3,118	7.9	194.9	26	6.6	10	2.5	33	203	100.0
	Andy Dalton	2011	CIN	16	1	300	516	58.1	3,398	6.6	212.4	20	3.9	13	2.5	24	160	80.4
	Cam Newton	2011	CAR	16	1	310	517	60.0	4,051	7.8	253.2	21	4.1	17	3.3	35	260	84.5
	Vince Young	2006	TEN	15	1	184	357	51.5	2,199	6.2	146.6	12	3.4	13	3.6	25	129	66.7
	Dan Marino	1983	MIA	11	1	173	296	58.4	2,210	7.5	200.9	20	6.8	6	2.0	10	80	96.0
	Bob Griese	1967	MIA	12	1	166	331	50.2	2,005	6.1	167.1	15	4.5	18	5.4			61.6
	Joe Namath	1965	NYJ	13	1	164	340	48.2	2,220	6.5	170.8	18	5.3	15	4.4			68.8

There is a huge difference between making teh Pro Bowl and earning 1st team All Pro.

When you make the Pro Bowl it means that you are one of about 4 to 6 players that are considered the best at that position. However, when you are a 1st team All Pro then it means that you are acknowledged as the single best at that position for a season.

When you make 1st team All Pro as a rookie it means that in your first season in the NFL you were better than any other player at your position.

 

[plasticman]

Thanks for that. Should it be 53 years and not 73 if you are going from 1970?

We were so close to derwin James. Didn't think he was going to drop that far and really wanted us to trade up a few spots for him.

Shouldn't we disqualify those on the list that this board complains about talking too much? Surely that should be a consideration.

You are right, it should be 53 years. I'm absolutely ashamed to admit that I majored in Math and was unable to subtract 1970 from 2023 and get the correct answer. My only excuse is that it was during my insomnia at 4:00 in the morning, a time when it's difficult to pour liquid into a cup.

 

[eromeopolk]

There is a huge difference between making teh Pro Bowl and earning 1st team All Pro.

When you make the Pro Bowl it means that you are one of about 4 to 6 players that are considered the best at that position. However, when you are a 1st team All Pro then it means that you are acknowledged as the single best at that position for a season.

When you make 1st team All Pro as a rookie it means that in your first season in the NFL you were better than any other player at your position.

Agree we know this. But when your rookie Pro Bowler becomes a Hall of Famer, they deserve the list of Special Generational players whether 1st team All Pro or not. We are talking about Dorsett, Warfield, and Marino. Plus you got to look at the politics of rookies getting All Pro for the very reason you stated (1 of 4-6 players). Everybody knew they were generational players when they touched the NFL football field.

When it comes to Dorsett, Warfield, and Marino being special generational players, it the old Bill Parcells quote "believe your eyes...I wish I could give you my eyes".

 

[HanD]

You are right, it should be 53 years. I'm absolutely ashamed to admit that I majored in Math and was unable to subtract 1970 from 2023 and get the correct answer. My only excuse is that it was during my insomnia at 4:00 in the morning, a time when it's difficult to pour liquid into a cup.

And pee into a toilet half asleep

All good bro. Easy oversight. Happens to all of us

 

[plasticman]

I agree completely. However, I'm not sure teams pass on generational talent for need. Generational talent is usually in hindsight. Did teams pass on Parsons for need? Or did they not expect him to be this good? My guess is if we redrafted the 2021 draft, Parsons doesn't get even close to the Cowboys pick.

In most cases, the player was considered to be the best as far as measurables were concerned. Some were not selected higher due to perceptions that involved strength of college opponents, skepticism due to limited participation in college, injury history before the NFL, or off field issues.

You are also right that many of these players end up #1 or #2 on redraft articles.

I believe the knock on Micah was that he was raw and would need a season or two of experience before a break out season. We know why Moss dropped in the draft. Jevon Kearse, a sack leader in the NFL was originally as safety in college and then a LB. He only lined up occasionally as a DE, Kearse's position in the NFL.

 

[ChuckA1]

The fact Mel Renfro wasn't on there is pretty telling. Check his career vs a few of the listed CB's

 

[plasticman]

The fact Mel Renfro wasn't on there is pretty telling. Check his career vs a few of the listed CB's

Barely missed out. Although he made the Pro Bowl he was 2nd team All Pro in his rookie season. That Pro Bowl selection was the first of 10 consecutive seasons. He was a shutdown CB before the phrase was ever coined.

The problem for opponents in 1971 was that his CB partner that season, Herb Adderly, was also a Hall of Famer. Adderly had previously played for the Green Bay Packers.

In fact, the safeties that season was HOFer Cliff Harris and perennial Pro Bowler Cornell Green.

Imagine that you have a starting secondary of three HOFers and the "weakest" link is a guy who made three Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro selections as a CB before being converted to safety and making the Pro Bowl twice at that position. Add in another HOFer at linebacker, Chuck Howley, and one at DT, Bob Lilly.

Fans in 1971 didn't have to imagine this.

In the three playoff games that postseason, opponents scored a total of 1 TD. That TD came very late in the divisional round against the Vikings. Both their NFC championship game and Super Bowl opponents scored a grand total of 3 points each.

In the combined 17 games of the regular season and postseason in 1971, opponents turned the ball over less than three times only four times.

Ironically, it was the offense that was ranked #1 in both points and yards.

 

[ChuckA1]

Barely missed out. Although he made the Pro Bowl he was 2nd team All Pro in his rookie season. That Pro Bowl selection was the first of 10 consecutive seasons. He was a shutdown CB before the phrase was ever coined.

The problem for opponents in 1971 was that his CB partner that season, Herb Adderly, was also a Hall of Famer. Adderly had previously played for the Green Bay Packers.

In fact, the safeties that season was HOFer Cliff Harris and perennial Pro Bowler Cornell Green.

Imagine that you have a starting secondary of three HOFers and the "weakest" link is a guy who made three Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro selections as a CB before being converted to safety and making the Pro Bowl twice at that position. Add in another HOFer at linebacker, Chuck Howley, and one at DT, Bob Lilly.

Fans in 1971 didn't have to imagine this.

In the three playoff games that postseason, opponents scored a total of 1 TD. That TD came very late in the divisional round against the Vikings. Both their NFC championship game and Super Bowl opponents scored a grand total of 3 points each.

In the combined 17 games of the regular season and postseason in 1971, opponents turned the ball over less than three times only four times.

Ironically, it was the offense that was ranked #1 in both points and yards.

You have a great grasp of the facts. That was one heck of a team, season and SB win ('72). Those Cowboys' teams spoiled many of us

 

[Cebrin]

Gary Anderson missed a 30 something yard FG that would have sealed the game. As a result, we were denied what could have been one of the best SB matchups in NFL history between a 14-2 Broncos team, and a 15-1 Vikings team.