The Cooper Effect

[Roadtrip635]

The narrative when Cooper first signed was, "now we'll find out how good Dak can be". Had nothing changed then we would know Dak is no good but thank goodness that is not the case. Because there was such a big difference, this should tell everyone Dak is good enough to win a SB but still the haters are not convinced. So we have some folks casting doubt at Dak while the FO surrounds him with a team capable of winning a SB with Dak.

That's been the narrative from day 1 with Dak. After his 1st preseason game, "sure but how will he do in his 2nd game", in his second game it became "how will he play against starters", then how will he play when the regular season starts, then how will he play in the middle of the season, then how will he play in the playoffs. Now people are saying, yeah but he still hasn't won a Super Bowl. Even if he wins one, people will just say, yeah but he hasn't won 2 etc.

 

[TheDank]

So basically you’re upset we traded for a guy that came in mid season meshed excellently with the team and QB and was a major reason we made the playoffs?

Also Murray went first overall. There was no trading up to get him he was AZ’s guy. If you wanted him you’re giving up two more first rounders. Best I think we could’ve hoped for was a trade up for Ed Oliver, which would be nice but who knows, maybe Hill will be the better NFL player.

Garrett getting fired if we didn’t make the playoffs? Maybe, but that’s far from a sure thing. Lincoln Reilly coming to Dallas? If he wanted to coach in the NFL he would already be here. Maybe in a couple of years or if he wins a national championship (Boomer!), but he’s already stated he likes being at OU it’s a pretty damned good gig.

Is OPs post a bunch of uninformed “what if” rambling? Yes.

 

[CouchCoach]

So basically you’re upset we traded for a guy that came in mid season meshed excellently with the team and QB and was a major reason we made the playoffs?

Also Murray went first overall. There was no trading up to get him he was AZ’s guy. If you wanted him you’re giving up two more first rounders. Best I think we could’ve hoped for was a trade up for Ed Oliver, which would be nice but who knows, maybe Hill will be the better NFL player.

Garrett getting fired if we didn’t make the playoffs? Maybe, but that’s far from a sure thing. Lincoln Reilly coming to Dallas? If he wanted to coach in the NFL he would already be here. Maybe in a couple of years or if he wins a national championship (Boomer!), but he’s already stated he likes being at OU it’s a pretty damned good gig.

Is OPs post a bunch of uninformed “what if” rambling? Yes.

Hey, you're new here and figured that out?

However, the more time you spend here the more you will understand that a lot of what goes on here is "what if" rambling.

Had you been here at the time, you would have known that I was one of the more ardent posters in favor of the trade because I felt they'd use that 1st on a WR anyway and I had watched enough of him over time to know he was a lot better than what he was showing in OAK. So, no, I was not and am not upset.

I am merely looking at the possible, here comes that "what if" part, dominoes that fall if they don't pull that Cooper trade. The team is 3-5, think they're going on that 7-1 run without him? Me neither. Think they could have ended up with a top 10 or higher pick? I do Think that might have been it for this coaching staff? I do. Think they might have reservations about extending Prescott and might have considered a QB like Haskins or they might have made a hard enough offer to get Murray, that is is unknown as we do not know what was offered to trade up or if that was a trade up for him.

As far as Riley, yeah I thought you were a Sooner, you guys just can't hide, it is unknown what he would do if offered the job. McVay opened a lot of eyes to very young coaches. And Riley has actually said he would be interested and that is not the usual.

So, thanks for playing the "what if" game and waiting until your 76th post to insult me.

 

[Flamma]

I am merely looking at the possible, here comes that "what if" part, dominoes that fall if they don't pull that Cooper trade. The team is 3-5, think they're going on that 7-1 run without him? Me neither. Think they could have ended up with a top 10 or higher pick? I do Think that might have been it for this coaching staff? I do. Think they might have reservations about extending Prescott and might have considered a QB like Haskins or they might have made a hard enough offer to get Murray, that is is unknown as we do not know what was offered to trade up or if that was a trade up for him.

I would have been sick had the Cowboys wasted a 1st round pick on any of these QBs. Would have probably threw up if they sold the farm for Murray, a QB I don't think is any good outside a college setting playing inferior talent. Best case scenario would have been to pick actual talent in the first round and wait until 2020 for a QB.

 

[G2]

His TDs and yardage weren't exactly off the charts, so without looking I'd suggest Cooper took some attention off of other WRs/TEs.
I also wonder if TOP changed with him than without.

 

[CouchCoach]

I would have been sick had the Cowboys wasted a 1st round pick on any of these QBs. Would have probably threw up if they sold the farm for Murray, a QB I don't think is any good outside a college setting playing inferior talent. Best case scenario would have been to pick actual talent in the first round and wait until 2020 for a QB.

Couldn't agree more because I wasn't sold on any of them and am not promoting that.

It is a "what if" thread because I am just that kind of guy, love to play that game. That's why I liked "Inglorious Basterds".

I just find it intriguing how this one move affected the HC and QB and thought others might as well. What I think might have happened was exactly what you're thinking, wait until the deeper 2020 QB class and let Prescott play out his contract.

 

[CouchCoach]

His TDs and yardage weren't exactly off the charts, so without looking I'd suggest Cooper took some attention off of other WRs/TEs.
I also wonder if TOP changed with him than without.

Once it was evident that he could make a difference, he did affect how they had to play their D set up. No other WR scared them on the big plays so they could play a tighter control D with fewer risks. I think that also helped the run game because they were pretty much daring the Cowboys to try big plays.

 

[JoeKing]

In the end when surrounded by enough support we must cash in on the results. Once we pay Dak that support will be more compromised .

All QB’s need a supporting cast. It’s what they do with it that separates them from the pack.

Why would paying Dak compromise the support we have for Dak. It's not going to come anywhere close to bankrupting the team. We have over $100M in cap space. Stephen Jones is doing a great job at managing the cap. Plus don't forget the league continues to be more generous every year with cap space so the next few years should give us plenty to get all the main players paid. We may have to make a couple of hard decisions in 2 or 3 years like whether to franchise Zeke or let him walk but that's just business. Until then the Cowboys are going to run that guy into the dirt, maybe another 5000 yards. He'll be replaced through the draft and this well-oiled machine will continue on.

 

[Rockport]

More than any player the Cowboys have added through FA or trade, the Cooper effect is the most impactful I can recall in this FA era.

The most notable and impactful one prior to this was the Plan B for Novacek.

What if the Cowboys hadn't been able to do that and had to keep going at 3-5 with that group of WR's and a struggling QB? Would they have ended up top 10 or even higher and within reach of Murray with trades?

Would that first pick in this draft have been a WR or a QB? Would they be discussing a contract now or waiting until after or well into this season with the present QB1 or would he be fighting for the job? Remember, this QB had been called out by two WR's with their "we're getting open" comments and they were getting NFL open.

If that record had been a top 10 drafting one, does Garrett not only not get the extension but lose his job and does Booger bring Riley in with Murray?

Amari Cooper is our "It's a Wonderful Life" player because his impact affected quite a few and it does cause me to consider a lot of "what if's" because of him. I do not recall one player having this type of effect for the Cowboys in since 1990. If not for him, this team might have a new HC and QB.

So, in an in though the out door way, if you don't like Garrett or Prescott, you can blame Cooper.

Some fans just can't be positive. Even when they try.

 

[cern]

More than any player the Cowboys have added through FA or trade, the Cooper effect is the most impactful I can recall in this FA era.

The most notable and impactful one prior to this was the Plan B for Novacek.

What if the Cowboys hadn't been able to do that and had to keep going at 3-5 with that group of WR's and a struggling QB? Would they have ended up top 10 or even higher and within reach of Murray with trades?

Would that first pick in this draft have been a WR or a QB? Would they be discussing a contract now or waiting until after or well into this season with the present QB1 or would he be fighting for the job? Remember, this QB had been called out by two WR's with their "we're getting open" comments and they were getting NFL open.

If that record had been a top 10 drafting one, does Garrett not only not get the extension but lose his job and does Booger bring Riley in with Murray?

Amari Cooper is our "It's a Wonderful Life" player because his impact affected quite a few and it does cause me to consider a lot of "what if's" because of him. I do not recall one player having this type of effect for the Cowboys in since 1990. If not for him, this team might have a new HC and QB.

So, in an in though the out door way, if you don't like Garrett or Prescott, you can blame Cooper.

Does correlation now imply causation???

 

[JoeKing]

That's been the narrative from day 1 with Dak. After his 1st preseason game, "sure but how will he do in his 2nd game", in his second game it became "how will he play against starters", then how will he play when the regular season starts, then how will he play in the middle of the season, then how will he play in the playoffs. Now people are saying, yeah but he still hasn't won a Super Bowl. Even if he wins one, people will just say, yeah but he hasn't won 2 etc.

Maybe that's what's going on in your head but that's not what has happened publicly. Dak inherited a team that was primed to win with Romo. Once TR went down in that preseason Seattle game, we all thought we were screwed. He was never expected to take that team to 13 wins his rookie year. Without Zeke and a depleted OL and a hobbled Dez his 2nd season, he wasn't expected to win enough games alone. His 3rd season started out with WR by committee and it did not work. It wasn't until Amari came aboard that the football analyst wonder, "now we'll find out what we have in Dak". Maybe you are just a step ahead of us all by thinking it before the rest of us but realistically it wasn't until Dak caught fire with Amari, did the rest of us realize Dak could be worth more than his paycheck at the time.

 

[pansophy]

Teams will have to adjust to us having Cooper or pay the price.
I think they will. But then again, we will have an offseason to think up stuff too

They did adjust after Cooper's two big games in a row -- that's why Jarwin and Beasley started to show up on the stat line again.

 

[TheDank]

Hey, you're new here and figured that out?

However, the more time you spend here the more you will understand that a lot of what goes on here is "what if" rambling.

Had you been here at the time, you would have known that I was one of the more ardent posters in favor of the trade because I felt they'd use that 1st on a WR anyway and I had watched enough of him over time to know he was a lot better than what he was showing in OAK. So, no, I was not and am not upset.

I am merely looking at the possible, here comes that "what if" part, dominoes that fall if they don't pull that Cooper trade. The team is 3-5, think they're going on that 7-1 run without him? Me neither. Think they could have ended up with a top 10 or higher pick? I do Think that might have been it for this coaching staff? I do. Think they might have reservations about extending Prescott and might have considered a QB like Haskins or they might have made a hard enough offer to get Murray, that is is unknown as we do not know what was offered to trade up or if that was a trade up for him.

As far as Riley, yeah I thought you were a Sooner, you guys just can't hide, it is unknown what he would do if offered the job. McVay opened a lot of eyes to very young coaches. And Riley has actually said he would be interested and that is not the usual.

So, thanks for playing the "what if" game and waiting until your 76th post to insult me.

I've been coming to this forum every day for the past decade or so because it's one of the best resources for info on the team. So am I new here? I guess so since I don't post every random thought that comes into my head, but thanks for the warm welcome. You say you're looking at the possible, but really you're just coming up with another bash Garrett and Dak thread for which there's dozens of others you could join into with your 13,259th post.

You liked the Cooper move? Congrats, doesn't feel like it from your post where you literally blame him for us having JG and Dak and I honestly don't care enough to go through anyone's post history to look up their previous opinions or keep up with them generally. You seem to be upset that I called your post uninformed, but you literally said JG wouldn't have gotten his extension in your post and JG didn't get an extension. You believed we would somehow get Murray and I pointed out he went first overall and if we go by the history of trade ups for first overall QB's we would have either had to give up a king's ransom or more likely AZ is going to take the guy they think is the future of their franchise. Haskins? Yeah we could probably have gotten him this year if we wanted him badly, seems most of the NFL didn't and that's not who you guessed about originally.

If Riley wanted to coach in the NFL he could be back with Mayfield and a young talented roster in Cleveland. He's stated multiple times he likes where he's at. You're throwing out hot takes that have no credible basis.

Ah, what a 77th post. Maybe if I post 13,000 more of them I'll be allowed to join the your opinion doesn't matter because I've been here longer and spout more nonsense club.

 

[Fire407]

And the one thing we don't know about that is how does he feel about that? Would he prefer to be coaching a team with a more traditional set up?

I think those that think Garrett won't be in demand are mistaken. He is well liked and networked through the NFL and every GM and owner is well aware that he's been given a total newbie to OC and play calling in his contract year and to top that off, thought he would have his OC for this season.

I am intrigued by Garrett going to another team. I don't think he's a great HC but I do wonder if he isn't better than what he's been in Dallas.

I tell ya, I ran radio stations under a situation similar to Garrett's and ones where I was left on my own to gain or lose by my decisions and I was a lot more effective with the latter because I held myself accountable and responsible for the results.

I don't think we'll ever know if Garrett would be in demand by any other team. I think Jerry promotes him to a FO position to help him save face if no other team would want him. Then they can still say other teams wanted him.

 

[Fire407]

The only reason I mention him is that unlike most other college HC's, he actually expressed interest in coaching in the NFL and that can't be about money.

No college coach, including Saban or Swinney, who just got a 10 year 93M contract, is going to get carte blanche with the personnel. Belichick got that but I do not think any other HC gets that including Reid or Payton.

Successful college coaches want to paint on a larger canvass like Saban, Spurrier and Petrino tried and I think Riley thinks his offense would work in the NFL. And for men that want challenge, what's the challenge at OU? Recruiting? They had one player on that team from OK. Big 12 is an afterthought conference after OU.

That Kingsbury hire was the oddest one I've seen in many a moon. The guy was a failure in a secondary conference and was lost with FA and had to be helped by his FO in even acquiring his coaching staff.

Kingsbury got lucky that he was associated with Patrick Mahomes and that Sean McVay has been a big success. If just one of those things didn't happen, then Kingsbury wouldn't be an NFL coach now.

 

[CCBoy]

Hey, you're new here and figured that out?

However, the more time you spend here the more you will understand that a lot of what goes on here is "what if" rambling.

Had you been here at the time, you would have known that I was one of the more ardent posters in favor of the trade because I felt they'd use that 1st on a WR anyway and I had watched enough of him over time to know he was a lot better than what he was showing in OAK. So, no, I was not and am not upset.

I am merely looking at the possible, here comes that "what if" part, dominoes that fall if they don't pull that Cooper trade. The team is 3-5, think they're going on that 7-1 run without him? Me neither. Think they could have ended up with a top 10 or higher pick? I do Think that might have been it for this coaching staff? I do. Think they might have reservations about extending Prescott and might have considered a QB like Haskins or they might have made a hard enough offer to get Murray, that is is unknown as we do not know what was offered to trade up or if that was a trade up for him.

As far as Riley, yeah I thought you were a Sooner, you guys just can't hide, it is unknown what he would do if offered the job. McVay opened a lot of eyes to very young coaches. And Riley has actually said he would be interested and that is not the usual.

So, thanks for playing the "what if" game and waiting until your 76th post to insult me.

...easy fella'

 

[percyhoward]

And to think, the Cowboys really didn't score more points with Cooper than they did without him.

This is correct. Although Dallas was great at scoring from outside the red zone...

2018 (after week 8)
% of drives ending in TD
last play of drive was from inside red zone
NFL avg 63.6%
Dallas 54.5% (29th)

last play of drive was from OUTSIDE red zone
NFL avg 16.6%
Dallas 28.6% (2nd)

...the problem is that 75% of all touchdowns are scored on plays that began in the red zone. Cooper isn't, and never has been close to a consistent threat to score in the red zone.

Red Zone TD catches in Dallas, 2014-17
(Dez Bryant's 54 games)
Bryant 21
others 34

Red Zone TD catches in Oakland, 2015-18
(Amari Cooper's 52 games)
Cooper 6
others 47

 

[Montanalo]

Ya know, I do not see this as a TE offense, I don't think that position as receiver is nearly as important as a blocker.

We could be overestimating this WR corps but it looks really strong to me but I see Moore as more of a down the field guy than dink and dunk because that TOP ball control offense just doesn't cut it in today's game. Need big chunks of yardage and more scoring. And that will not happen with this group of TE's.

I hope you're right. My biggest fear with the return of Witten is that the offense, in general, and Dak, in particular, rely on him at the expense of Cooper and Gallup. If that happens, then the offense has taken a step backwards.

 

[Diehardblues]

Couldn't agree more because I wasn't sold on any of them and am not promoting that.

It is a "what if" thread because I am just that kind of guy, love to play that game. That's why I liked "Inglorious Basterds".

I just find it intriguing how this one move affected the HC and QB and thought others might as well. What I think might have happened was exactly what you're thinking, wait until the deeper 2020 QB class and let Prescott play out his contract.

If a WR1 had such a dramatic effect on this offense I can’t help but wonder what a QB1 would do for it?

If we had a top 10 offense and QB to go with our top 10 defense would we be a more serious contender?

 

[CouchCoach]

I've been coming to this forum every day for the past decade or so because it's one of the best resources for info on the team. So am I new here? I guess so since I don't post every random thought that comes into my head, but thanks for the warm welcome. You say you're looking at the possible, but really you're just coming up with another bash Garrett and Dak thread for which there's dozens of others you could join into with your 13,259th post.

You liked the Cooper move? Congrats, doesn't feel like it from your post where you literally blame him for us having JG and Dak and I honestly don't care enough to go through anyone's post history to look up their previous opinions or keep up with them generally. You seem to be upset that I called your post uninformed, but you literally said JG wouldn't have gotten his extension in your post and JG didn't get an extension. You believed we would somehow get Murray and I pointed out he went first overall and if we go by the history of trade ups for first overall QB's we would have either had to give up a king's ransom or more likely AZ is going to take the guy they think is the future of their franchise. Haskins? Yeah we could probably have gotten him this year if we wanted him badly, seems most of the NFL didn't and that's not who you guessed about originally.

If Riley wanted to coach in the NFL he could be back with Mayfield and a young talented roster in Cleveland. He's stated multiple times he likes where he's at. You're throwing out hot takes that have no credible basis.

Ah, what a 77th post. Maybe if I post 13,000 more of them I'll be allowed to join the your opinion doesn't matter because I've been here longer and spout more nonsense club.

Hey, you're on a roll.

Do you know for a fact that Riley wanted to move to CLE or they even wanted him? It's not the usual to hire the QB's college coach as the team's HC. We really don't know if he was offered anything in the NFL, only that he's stated that he is interested and the only reason I mentioned it was because that is odd. Most college coaches deflect those kinds of questions. And one thing we don't know is if any NFL team would consider him HC material or OC and he might prefer to be captain in Norman than first mate elsewhere.

The intriguing part of this is the possibility that acquiring Cooper saved two jobs, one for sure and we'll see about the other. But to think Booger would just stand pat if he had a top 10 pick and had hired Riley, a stretch I agree because we don't know his mindset, and not go for Riley's QB is underestimating him. As far as AZ, who's to say they would have given up that #1 pick for a 1st and Prescott?

And a very warm welcome to you but you haven't been here long enough to say every random thought. I have witnesses that can attest to the fact I have many more random thoughts than show up here. And since you are relatively new posting here, it is not required that every thread be read or responded to, you can just pass it on by.