The Deception of JG

Omegasupreme

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Jason Garrett is a passive philosopher. He has made a whole theory of offense that when there is enough evidence that a defense is going to behave in a certain way, his offense will succeed if everyone makes the right adjustments at the right time for the right reasons.

How often is that truly expected to happen with any human theory involving human's behaving exactly what a law or perfect theory says?

So when the Cowboy offense has success, it is because everyone did everything right with each play. When the Cowboy offense does not have success, it is because someone did not make the right read of the defense and did not execute the perfect route or block that Jason designed.

So Jason is excused from all blame for lack of success because he can always say that the players did not follow the blueprint.

But what happens when the defenses have seen the same 1990's pass offense so many times on film that the defensive coordinators can predict what the Norv Turner/Don Coryell/Jason Garrett offensive scheme will behave when they bait or place their players in certain places? My guess is there will either be a lot of sacks or a lot of interceptions.

In 2011 Romo decided to keep the ball when his players were not open and Phillip Rivers decided to throw the ball anyway and got a ton of interceptions.

The strange thing about the Turner/Coryell/Garrett (TCG) offense is that it is supposed to be predicated on the threat of running the ball effectively. If a defense is not afraid of an offense running the ball or perhaps the Garrett coordinator calls a running play over right tackle on second down on 2 and 10 almost routinely, then the opposing defense can put its DBs in all of the possible locations where the TCG receivers will go. But when a smart coach like Turner (rather than a philosopher like Garrett) starts running the ball with reckless abandon, he can control and dictate the defenses reactions.

But there have been two things that have saved Jason Garrett since 2007 when there was really no game film on his tendencies and he was able to amass 51 TDs. He has Romo and he had a lot of injuries at RB. Romo improvises so well, that even when teams say that the Dallas offense is predictable (Dom Capers, Ray Lewis, and the Detroit Lions have said that what they saw on tape did not change in the game), Romo can scramble and make adjustments. How many times last year did Laurent Robinson know that he was not open and then looked for Romo while running secondary routes? I think because Robinson had some experience on the Chargers and other teams, that he knew that once a route is ineffective, the play should be salvaged. Garrett makes it seem like if the WR is not open that someone did not run the route or execution the right way so they essentially give up. Miles gets doubled and Dez just looks lost once a play breaks down. Witten is smart enough to know that the play sucks so he knows where Romo needs him to be.

But if you think about it. This is all Romo and the rest of the players succeeding where the scheme cannot. But Jason will get credit for Romo's 33 TDs last year and somehow dodge the 5 rushing TDs by saying it was Murray's injury. Frankly Murray padded the Dallas rushing stats by a few huge games but Dallas did not run the ball well at all. One of Jason's stock plays is to run the ball on 3rd and 20. So when the RB gains 11 yards it looks in the stats as if there was a strong running surge.

Garrett does not know how to run the ball effectively. How many times in the Garrett offense has Dallas had enormous trouble on short yardage or red zone? The Red zone issue has been an offseason discussion since 2008. Garrett will run playaction passes at absurd times.

The defense has gotten blamed for the last few years for not keeping other team's point totals below the Jason Garrett offense's point totals. Basically, Dallas is just not scoring enough points. Don Coryell, Joe Gibbs, Mike Martz and last year Bill Belichick recognized that if they thought that their defense was not a steadfast and immovable object then they just scored as many points as they could.

There were five games last year where Jason's offense could not score, could not amassed first downs, keep drives going, etc. When that happened, Dallas did not win and did not go to the playoffs. Patriots, Arizona, Lions, Jets, Giants (second game), Eagles all were in Jason's hands to produce points.

It is the most points that wins the game and other than 2007, Jason Garrett's offense produces just over 2 TDs per game. His running game does very little and his defenses and player execution are to blame.

Dallas is being conned.
 
Omegasupreme;4576609 said:
Jason Garrett is a passive philosopher. He has made a whole theory of offense that when there is enough evidence that a defense is going to behave in a certain way, his offense will succeed if everyone makes the right adjustments at the right time for the right reasons.

How often is that truly expected to happen with any human theory involving human's behaving exactly what a law or perfect theory says?

So when the Cowboy offense has success, it is because everyone did everything right with each play. When the Cowboy offense does not have success, it is because someone did not make the right read of the defense and did not execute the perfect route or block that Jason designed.

So Jason is excused from all blame for lack of success because he can always say that the players did not follow the blueprint.

But what happens when the defenses have seen the same 1990's pass offense so many times on film that the defensive coordinators can predict what the Norv Turner/Don Coryell/Jason Garrett offensive scheme will behave when they bait or place their players in certain places? My guess is there will either be a lot of sacks or a lot of interceptions.

In 2011 Romo decided to keep the ball when his players were not open and Phillip Rivers decided to throw the ball anyway and got a ton of interceptions.

The strange thing about the Turner/Coryell/Garrett (TCG) offense is that it is supposed to be predicated on the threat of running the ball effectively. If a defense is not afraid of an offense running the ball or perhaps the Garrett coordinator calls a running play over right tackle on second down on 2 and 10 almost routinely, then the opposing defense can put its DBs in all of the possible locations where the TCG receivers will go. But when a smart coach like Turner (rather than a philosopher like Garrett) starts running the ball with reckless abandon, he can control and dictate the defenses reactions.

But there have been two things that have saved Jason Garrett since 2007 when there was really no game film on his tendencies and he was able to amass 51 TDs. He has Romo and he had a lot of injuries at RB. Romo improvises so well, that even when teams say that the Dallas offense is predictable (Dom Capers, Ray Lewis, and the Detroit Lions have said that what they saw on tape did not change in the game), Romo can scramble and make adjustments. How many times last year did Laurent Robinson know that he was not open and then looked for Romo while running secondary routes? I think because Robinson had some experience on the Chargers and other teams, that he knew that once a route is ineffective, the play should be salvaged. Garrett makes it seem like if the WR is not open that someone did not run the route or execution the right way so they essentially give up. Miles gets doubled and Dez just looks lost once a play breaks down. Witten is smart enough to know that the play sucks so he knows where Romo needs him to be.

But if you think about it. This is all Romo and the rest of the players succeeding where the scheme cannot. But Jason will get credit for Romo's 33 TDs last year and somehow dodge the 5 rushing TDs by saying it was Murray's injury. Frankly Murray padded the Dallas rushing stats by a few huge games but Dallas did not run the ball well at all. One of Jason's stock plays is to run the ball on 3rd and 20. So when the RB gains 11 yards it looks in the stats as if there was a strong running surge.

Garrett does not know how to run the ball effectively. How many times in the Garrett offense has Dallas had enormous trouble on short yardage or red zone? The Red zone issue has been an offseason discussion since 2008. Garrett will run playaction passes at absurd times.

The defense has gotten blamed for the last few years for not keeping other team's point totals below the Jason Garrett offense's point totals. Basically, Dallas is just not scoring enough points. Don Coryell, Joe Gibbs, Mike Martz and last year Bill Belichick recognized that if they thought that their defense was not a steadfast and immovable object then they just scored as many points as they could.

There were five games last year where Jason's offense could not score, could not amassed first downs, keep drives going, etc. When that happened, Dallas did not win and did not go to the playoffs. Patriots, Arizona, Lions, Jets, Giants (second game), Eagles all were in Jason's hands to produce points.

It is the most points that wins the game and other than 2007, Jason Garrett's offense produces just over 2 TDs per game. His running game does very little and his defenses and player execution are to blame.

Dallas is being conned.

There is some truth in there. I've felt for a long time now that Garrett lacks a feel for play calling. It's like playing poker. Its easy to learn the rules, but that doesn't make you a good poker player. So much more factors into it. And I'm not so sure its something that you can completely learn. Part of it is just your makeup. Your personality.

Garretts obviously a smart guy. He goes about things the right way. I just don't know if he will ever be a top notch play caller.
 
BlindFaith;4576631 said:
There is some truth in there. I've felt for a long time now that Garrett lacks a feel for play calling. It's like playing poker. Its easy to learn the rules, but that doesn't make you a good poker player. So much more factors into it. And I'm not so sure its something that you can completely learn. Part of it is just your makeup. Your personality.

Garretts obviously a smart guy. He goes about things the right way. I just don't know if he will ever be a top notch play caller.

Garrett is a coaching neophyte.

During everyone's rush to proclaim him the next great head coach, people forget that he has very little actual coaching experience. He's still learning and his playcalling is one of those areas where it is pretty apparent (clock management is another)

I'm hoping Callahan can help a bit with that.

What would have really been helpful would have been having Dan Reeves around VR a few years ago.
 
I'm getting lost trying to identify the legitimate points the OP may have because the agenda to fault Garrett is so strong.
 
CoCo;4576684 said:
I'm getting lost trying to identify the legitimate points the OP may have because the agenda to fault Garrett is so strong.

this part, to me, sounds exactly like what I have heard about Landry, except with Landry, it was "the system":


So when the Cowboy offense has success, it is because everyone did everything right with each play. When the Cowboy offense does not have success, it is because someone did not make the right read of the defense and did not execute the perfect route or block that Jason designed.

So Jason is excused from all blame for lack of success because he can always say that the players did not follow the blueprint.
 
CoCo;4576684 said:
I'm getting lost trying to identify the legitimate points the OP may have because the agenda to fault Garrett is so strong.

I agree. In the end players mistakes are the coaches responsbility. Seems more people are interested in who to point fingers at than anything else. Garrett is the HC good and bad fall in his laps as it does with Jerry and the front office.
 
I'm guessing somewhere in the middle of that storied tenure in Cleveland Bill Belichek faced criticism similar to this but regarding defense.

Garrett was hired to lead us for a decade. He was never going to wow in year 1 or 2 with pure coaching moxie.

His impact has been on putting in systems for drafting and evaluating guys that have a burning desire to play football. He has a good understanding and appreciation of overachievers.

I'd say welcome but something tells me the OP isn't new here.
 
CoCo;4576684 said:
I'm getting lost trying to identify the legitimate points the OP may have because the agenda to fault Garrett is so strong.
I'm with you, CoCo. :huh:

From the OP: "Dallas is being conned." Nope, sorry. That I do not buy. Agenda summarized.

-
Chocolate Lab;4576707 said:
:post: :laugh2:
Which post? By whom?
 
I agree strongly with the OP.

I feel like Garrett was thrust into this role, entirely too quickly. Hell he was thrust into the role of offensive coordinator entirely too quickly.

I think he might get there at some point, hopefully it's this year (fingers crossed), but I really don't think having a rookie coach was fair to the likes of our veteran players... Detroit, New England, Arizona... That's on Garrett. Not improving the offensive line year in and year out... That's on Garrett.
 
another+didnt+read+.gif+_972be63db9e3c24191d4d3b663164905.gif
 
This is a dumb post, the original poster wants to dump on Garrett because he follows the philosphy that Jimmy and Norv used in the 90s. Well back then everyone knew what plays we were going to run, they could not stop it then, and once Garrett gets all the right players in the right spot, they will not be able to stop it going forward.

All offensive plays will succeed if every offensive guy succeeds in their assignment, the defense gambles that at least one of their players will win in their individual battle therefore disrupting the timing or the play completely.
 
Omegasupreme;4576609 said:
Jason Garrett is a passive philosopher. He has made a whole theory of offense that when there is enough evidence that a defense is going to behave in a certain way, his offense will succeed if everyone makes the right adjustments at the right time for the right reasons.

How often is that truly expected to happen with any human theory involving human's behaving exactly what a law or perfect theory says?

So when the Cowboy offense has success, it is because everyone did everything right with each play. When the Cowboy offense does not have success, it is because someone did not make the right read of the defense and did not execute the perfect route or block that Jason designed.

So Jason is excused from all blame for lack of success because he can always say that the players did not follow the blueprint.

But what happens when the defenses have seen the same 1990's pass offense so many times on film that the defensive coordinators can predict what the Norv Turner/Don Coryell/Jason Garrett offensive scheme will behave when they bait or place their players in certain places? My guess is there will either be a lot of sacks or a lot of interceptions.

In 2011 Romo decided to keep the ball when his players were not open and Phillip Rivers decided to throw the ball anyway and got a ton of interceptions.

The strange thing about the Turner/Coryell/Garrett (TCG) offense is that it is supposed to be predicated on the threat of running the ball effectively. If a defense is not afraid of an offense running the ball or perhaps the Garrett coordinator calls a running play over right tackle on second down on 2 and 10 almost routinely, then the opposing defense can put its DBs in all of the possible locations where the TCG receivers will go. But when a smart coach like Turner (rather than a philosopher like Garrett) starts running the ball with reckless abandon, he can control and dictate the defenses reactions.

But there have been two things that have saved Jason Garrett since 2007 when there was really no game film on his tendencies and he was able to amass 51 TDs. He has Romo and he had a lot of injuries at RB. Romo improvises so well, that even when teams say that the Dallas offense is predictable (Dom Capers, Ray Lewis, and the Detroit Lions have said that what they saw on tape did not change in the game), Romo can scramble and make adjustments. How many times last year did Laurent Robinson know that he was not open and then looked for Romo while running secondary routes? I think because Robinson had some experience on the Chargers and other teams, that he knew that once a route is ineffective, the play should be salvaged. Garrett makes it seem like if the WR is not open that someone did not run the route or execution the right way so they essentially give up. Miles gets doubled and Dez just looks lost once a play breaks down. Witten is smart enough to know that the play sucks so he knows where Romo needs him to be.

But if you think about it. This is all Romo and the rest of the players succeeding where the scheme cannot. But Jason will get credit for Romo's 33 TDs last year and somehow dodge the 5 rushing TDs by saying it was Murray's injury. Frankly Murray padded the Dallas rushing stats by a few huge games but Dallas did not run the ball well at all. One of Jason's stock plays is to run the ball on 3rd and 20. So when the RB gains 11 yards it looks in the stats as if there was a strong running surge.

Garrett does not know how to run the ball effectively. How many times in the Garrett offense has Dallas had enormous trouble on short yardage or red zone? The Red zone issue has been an offseason discussion since 2008. Garrett will run playaction passes at absurd times.

The defense has gotten blamed for the last few years for not keeping other team's point totals below the Jason Garrett offense's point totals. Basically, Dallas is just not scoring enough points. Don Coryell, Joe Gibbs, Mike Martz and last year Bill Belichick recognized that if they thought that their defense was not a steadfast and immovable object then they just scored as many points as they could.

There were five games last year where Jason's offense could not score, could not amassed first downs, keep drives going, etc. When that happened, Dallas did not win and did not go to the playoffs. Patriots, Arizona, Lions, Jets, Giants (second game), Eagles all were in Jason's hands to produce points.

It is the most points that wins the game and other than 2007, Jason Garrett's offense produces just over 2 TDs per game. His running game does very little and his defenses and player execution are to blame.

Dallas is being conned.

Really? are you serious?
 
Omegasupreme;4576609 said:
It is the most points that wins the game and other than 2007, Jason Garrett's offense produces just over 2 TDs per game. His running game does very little and his defenses and player execution are to blame.
2008 was 22.6 ppg. 2009 was 22.6 ppg. 2010 was 24.6 ppg. 2011 was 23.1 ppg. Two of those seasons were higher scoring than the 1993 team widely regarded as our best ever.

None of those seasons is just over 2 TDs per game.

But it is true people are being conned. See the post below.

Chocolate Lab;4576707 said:
:post: :laugh2:
Wow are your standards ever low.
 
Lonestar94;4576724 said:
Congratulations on your post of the day!!

Good one, but no, that isn't me. :)

Actually the OP is wrong... Our lack of running TDs wasn't blamed on Murray's injury -- it's the interior OL that gets all the heat. ;) I always wondered who made it illegal to run outside in the red zone. We have a team full of big WRs that should be able to block corners.

Anyway, I have posted before that at least in the past, I suspect JG's offense has had a lot of sight adjustments and other moving parts on the fly, which could explain why some games we look unstoppable and others we can't do a single thing, with guys obviously not on the same page.

It is funny, though, how the OP gets instantly attacked without anyone even considering whether or not there could be some merit to what he's saying.
 
Chocolate Lab;4576743 said:
Good one, but no, that isn't me. :)

Actually the OP is wrong... Our lack of running TDs wasn't blamed on Murray's injury -- it's the interior OL that gets all the heat. ;) I always wondered who made it illegal to run outside in the red zone. We have a team full of big WRs that should be able to block corners.

Anyway, I have posted before that at least in the past, I suspect JG's offense has had a lot of sight adjustments and other moving parts on the fly, which could explain why some games we look unstoppable and others we can't do a single thing, with guys obviously not on the same page.

Hard to run outside when safety and CB do not have to worry about defending deep. This is why the majority of runs by teams tend to be inside around the goalline
 

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