The decision to go to a 4-3 and our personnel

[Verdict]

If the Dallas Cowboys have any sense at all (we hope) then it makes very little sense to scrap the 3-4 and start over unless the team believes we have most of the players already on the roster to run the 4-3 defense. I think the first thing that indicates that fact is the Cowboys indicating that they have the right players to do it on this roster is the fact that the Cowboys are in preliminary negotiations with Spencer. That fact tends to indicate that the Cowboys intend to resign Spencer and play Ware and Spencer on the ends and go with what we already have at DT.

I personally could see us trading down several times a short distance if there is not a player we cover at #18. In a trade down we could get a few more pics to move back up and get maybe 4 or 5 picks by the end of the third round. If we could end up with 3 second round picks we could get possibly end up with three starters at one or more positions including : OT OG S C. If the draft is as deep on the lines as many say then maybe this is the draft that we accumulate pics in the premium rounds 1-3.

If the Cowboys do not think they have guys on the roster to run the 4-3 already with minimal retooling then they have totally blown it. I just can't see Jerry signing off on this as old as he is unless they think they can do it this year with what they have.

 

[jnday]

I would have made more sense to convert to a different version of the 4-3 other than the Tampa version considering the money and resources tied up at CB. Kiffin has said that he will allow the CBs to play more man coverage. If this is so, they won't be running the tradional Tampa anyway, so why bring the Tampa Two guru in to coach is he is not going to run the defense that he is supposed to be master of. The Tampa defense doesn't need these man coverage corners that take up salary cap that should be used to fill the positions required to run the defense best, S and DL.

I don't think the change was well thought out IMO. The DL and S positions are some of weakest on the team, only behind the OL. It seems like the change would have been much smoother with the last draft being used as the first step in the 4-3 direction. This change was done with no previous thought other than the last couple months. I think it will take longer to convert at a quality level than fans want to believe.

 

[Woods]

I would have made more sense to convert to a different version of the 4-3 other than the Tampa version considering the money and resources tied up at CB. Kiffin has said that he will allow the CBs to play more man coverage. If this is so, they won't be running the tradional Tampa anyway, so why bring the Tampa Two guru in to coach is he is not going to run the defense that he is supposed to be master of. The Tampa defense doesn't need these man coverage corners that take up salary cap that should be used to fill the positions required to run the defense best, S and DL.

I don't think the change was well thought out IMO. The DL and S positions are some of weakest on the team, only behind the OL. It seems like the change would have been much smoother with the last draft being used as the first step in the 4-3 direction. This change was done with no previous thought other than the last couple months. I think it will take longer to convert at a quality level than fans want to believe.

The Safety position would have been a question mark regardless, no? Doesn't matter if we're 34 or 43.

As for DL, assuming we do re-sign Spencer, many of the pieces are already there. We probably need another DE to rotate along with Ware and Spencer.
But our DTs could be Rat, Lissemore, Hatcher, and Crawford. That's not too bad. Plus, we've got guys who might surprise in a rotation like B Price and B Bass.

 

[wileedog]

The Safety position would have been a question mark regardless, no? Doesn't matter if we're 34 or 43.

Yeah but I think the point is good safety play is essential to a Tampa 2, not as much so to a blitzing 3-4. We just created more emphasis on one of our weakest positions.

But our DTs could be Rat, Lissemore, Hatcher, and Crawford.

Rat and Crawford have questions marks and Lissemore is a 3-4 JAG. Hatcher may be ok but there is nothing behind this group, and most good 4-3's have a good rotation up front.

 

[Woods]

Yeah but I think the point is good safety play is essential to a Tampa 2, not as much so to a blitzing 3-4. We just created more emphasis on one of our weakest positions.



Rat and Crawford have questions marks and Lissemore is a 3-4 JAG. Hatcher may be ok but there is nothing behind this group, and most good 4-3's have a good rotation up front.

I think a healthy Rat is pretty good. And his injuries this past season weren't serious in terms of knee injuries, for example. I think he had an ankle sprain to start the season and then the groin injury.

Also, I think Hatcher played really well this past season.

As for Crawford, he does have a lot to prove. But I think he is a player who got good reps this past year, and the staff seems pretty high on him.

I am a bit disappointed in Lissemore's play last year. He needs to turn it around.

I'm not saying we can't use more talent, but it's not like we're devoid of talent at DT either.

EDIT: As for Safety, it has to be a high priority in the Draft this year.

We're probably missing 2-3 players on Defense, but we should be able to obtain at least 1-2 this off-season, imo.

 

[Wolfpack]

Yeah but I think the point is good safety play is essential to a Tampa 2, not as much so to a blitzing 3-4. We just created more emphasis on one of our weakest positions..

Larry Lacewell thought it was a great idea to switch, he also thought Tony Dixon was a 2nd round pick. That should tell you that your fears are correct.

 

[Teague31]

I think we can pull it off. Lee is better than any MLB Tampa ever had. Carter has the athletic ability to be as good as brooks. Mo and Carr are a better tandem than the bucs ever had and the same goes for Ware and Spencer (if kept).

We don't have a Sapp or Lynch.

I think we are in good position to make the switch.

 

[wileedog]

I think a healthy Rat is pretty good. And his injuries this past season weren't serious in terms of knee injuries, for example. I think he had an ankle sprain to start the season and then the groin injury.

My question mark with him is he has been playing for 8 years as a very undersized 3-4 NT. He has been getting pounded in that time, and his production has slipped quite a bit the past couple of years. He will be 32 when the season starts. Going to a 4-3 will help him, no question, but is it too late a la Barber?

I'm not saying we can't use more talent, but it's not like we're devoid of talent at DT either.

I think we're devoid of depth, that's for sure.

EDIT: As for Safety, it has to be a high priority in the Draft this year.

We have been saying that every year since Woody retired.

We're probably missing 2-3 players on Defense, but we should be able to obtain at least 1-2 this off-season, imo.

I said to Dooms on another thread that I will be surprised if this is not a much better defense in 2-3 years. I will also be surprised if it is a very good one this coming year. There are just holes that need to be filled with quality players.

 

[Woods]

My question mark with him is has been playing for 8 years as a very undersized 3-4 NT. He has been getting pounded in that time, and his production has slipped quite a bit the past couple of years. He will be 32 when the season starts. Going to a 4-3 will help him, no question, but is it too late a la Barber?


I think we're devoid of depth, that's for sure.


We have been saying that every year since Woody retired.



I said to Dooms on another thread that I will be surprised if this is not a much better defense in 2-3 years. I will also be surprised if it is a very good one this coming year. There are just holes that need to be filled with quality players.

No doubt. But I do think that we can get a quality DL in Round 1 this year - even with a slight trade back if we want. And while we probably aren't going to get a Melton, there's no reason why we can't, for example, get a good rotation player via FA.

We can probably pick up a another LB in the 3rd or 4th for depth purposes.

The issue is Safety, imo. We need to address this likely in the Draft, and we need to hit on the right guy. Now, we may get lucky with Church/M Johnson, but I'm not counting on that. That said, I hope those guys can provide some depth at least.

I'm not pretending that we're going to be some killer defense, but I think we could be a lot better than we were in 2012 - especially if we stay healthier.

 

[wileedog]

No doubt. But I do think that we can get a quality DL in Round 1 this year - even with a slight trade back if we want. And while we probably aren't going to get a Melton, there's no reason why we can't, for example, get a good rotation player via FA.

We can probably pick up a another LB in the 3rd or 4th for depth purposes.

Which brings me to the real problem with the offseason though - we need to be spending resources on this disaster of an Oline, not trying to shoehorn a defensive scheme switch.

But, that is for another thread....

 

[Woods]

If the Dallas Cowboys have any sense at all (we hope) then it makes very little sense to scrap the 3-4 and start over unless the team believes we have most of the players already on the roster to run the 4-3 defense. I think the first thing that indicates that fact is the Cowboys indicating that they have the right players to do it on this roster is the fact that the Cowboys are in preliminary negotiations with Spencer. That fact tends to indicate that the Cowboys intend to resign Spencer and play Ware and Spencer on the ends and go with what we already have at DT.

I personally could see us trading down several times a short distance if there is not a player we cover at #18. In a trade down we could get a few more pics to move back up and get maybe 4 or 5 picks by the end of the third round. If we could end up with 3 second round picks we could get possibly end up with three starters at one or more positions including : OT OG S C. If the draft is as deep on the lines as many say then maybe this is the draft that we accumulate pics in the premium rounds 1-3.

If the Cowboys do not think they have guys on the roster to run the 4-3 already with minimal retooling then they have totally blown it. I just can't see Jerry signing off on this as old as he is unless they think they can do it this year with what they have.

By the way, that is a very important point, imo. It would be suicidal for Garrett and this organization if they thought this was going to be a multi-year rebuilding process on Defense.

Now, they may have gotten the analysis wrong. But you have to think JJ/Garrett had to have thought long and hard about his one. It's not as if Romo, Ware, etc are getting any younger . . . .

 

[Woods]

Which brings me to the real problem with the offseason though - we need to be spending resources on this disaster of an Oline, not trying to shoehorn a defensive scheme switch.

But, that is for another thread....

I started a thread on this subject a few days ago. Actually, if we can pick up 1 quality OL in FA, and we use a 2nd, for example, to draft 1 more starter, I think our OL will be good enough to compete.

What I would like to see in FA is the following:

1. Attempt to re-sign Spencer.
2. Sign 1 quality OL.
3. Sign 1 decent rotation guy on the DL - whether a DT or DE.

Then draft another DL and OL early, plus a Safety. And I would possibly try to trade down, unless someone fell to me at 18, and pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder.

I don't think that's too unreasonable.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

Brian Braudus put it best - that regardless if we go 3-4 or 4-3 we need to shore up DT. The other position we need regardless is FS who has range, can tackle and call the defense.

 

[wileedog]

I started a thread on this subject a few days ago. Actually, if we can pick up 1 quality OL in FA, and we use a 2nd, for example, to draft 1 more starter, I think our OL will be good enough to compete.

I disagree. I think we we have 4 subpar starters on the line (as in below JAG level), and while a FA may shore up 1 of them a 2nd round pick may or may not, particularly the way we draft Oline. And even if the guy is good eventually, rookies are rookies.

And you still have 40% of your line that stinks no matter what and another season of Romo running for his life in that scenario.

 

[jnday]

I think a healthy Rat is pretty good. And his injuries this past season weren't serious in terms of knee injuries, for example. I think he had an ankle sprain to start the season and then the groin injury.

Also, I think Hatcher played really well this past season.

As for Crawford, he does have a lot to prove. But I think he is a player who got good reps this past year, and the staff seems pretty high on him.

I am a bit disappointed in Lissemore's play last year. He needs to turn it around.

I'm not saying we can't use more talent, but it's not like we're devoid of talent at DT either.

EDIT: As for Safety, it has to be a high priority in the Draft this year.

We're probably missing 2-3 players on Defense, but we should be able to obtain at least 1-2 this off-season, imo.

I don't think you will ever see a healthy Rat again. He will be a part time player with.a diminished skill set at best. Other than Hatcher, who is average, and Ware, I don't see snything but questions on the DL. Right now, it will be a below average unit. Spencer will be too expensive at his age. This move was a not planned very well and come at a strange time.

 

[jnday]

By the way, that is a very important point, imo. It would be suicidal for Garrett and this organization if they thought this was going to be a multi-year rebuilding process on Defense.

Now, they may have gotten the analysis wrong. But you have to think JJ/Garrett had to have thought long and hard about his one. It's not as if Romo, Ware, etc are getting any younger . . . .

They haven't thought too long or too hard about this change. Nothing the organization has done indicates that this change was anything more than a decision that was made in the last two or three months. They certainly had no intentions of changing defense before the season started.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I think this team is in FAR better position to run the 4-3 than the 3-4.

In the 3-4, you generally need a pretty good NT. And usually a big one. We went smaller with Ratliff and I was fine with that. But, in the 3-4 he's more apt to take a lot of punishment. We did have Josh Brent, but he's almost all but going to be suspended by the league for next year. That creates a GAPING hole at NT. Go to the 4-3 and now you can put Hatcher, Lissemore (who I think is a great fit) and Crawford at DT. You can put Ratliff at DT in the 1-gap and hopefully that will reduce the punishment as he should be doubled less.

Ware is fine in the 4-3 DE. Sprinters don't start from a 2-point stance for a reason. Applies to DE's. Only difference is that Ware won't likely confuse the O-Line and get say a RB trying to block him. But, he won't be giong in coverage either.

Lee is fine at the MIKE. Kiffin drafted Barrett Ruud and did fine with him and Lee is far better than Ruud. Carter is great here. All we really need is a SAM backer and those are not overly difficult to find.

We need much improved safety play. But, we would need that in either scheme.






YR

 

[Verdict]

I think this team is in FAR better position to run the 4-3 than the 3-4.

In the 3-4, you generally need a pretty good NT. And usually a big one. We went smaller with Ratliff and I was fine with that. But, in the 3-4 he's more apt to take a lot of punishment. We did have Josh Brent, but he's almost all but going to be suspended by the league for next year. That creates a GAPING hole at NT. Go to the 4-3 and now you can put Hatcher, Lissemore (who I think is a great fit) and Crawford at DT. You can put Ratliff at DT in the 1-gap and hopefully that will reduce the punishment as he should be doubled less.

Ware is fine in the 4-3 DE. Sprinters don't start from a 2-point stance for a reason. Applies to DE's. Only difference is that Ware won't likely confuse the O-Line and get say a RB trying to block him. But, he won't be giong in coverage either.

Lee is fine at the MIKE. Kiffin drafted Barrett Ruud and did fine with him and Lee is far better than Ruud. Carter is great here. All we really need is a SAM backer and those are not overly difficult to find.

We need much improved safety play. But, we would need that in either scheme.



YR

Do you think the Cowboys just stubbornly refused to find a true NT, couldn't find one good enough to draft, let Ratliff dictate where he wanted to play, OR valued Ratliff's sack numbers more than what they would have gotten out of a true NT?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

They haven't thought too long or too hard about this change. Nothing the organization has done indicates that this change was anything more than a decision that was made in the last two or three months. They certainly had no intentions of changing defense before the season started.

IIRC, it was reported that Broaddus and Co. was on the radio and they were really knocking Ryan's defense. This was sometime in the middle of the season. You just have to know that Broaddus caught word of that from people in the organization.

Not sure if they were thinking changing to the 4-3, but they didn't know Kiffin's situation or if he was interested in getting back into coaching.

I think they caught word of that and I think they jumped to firing Ryan and hiring Kiffin.






YR

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I think this team is in FAR better position to run the 4-3 than the 3-4.

In the 3-4, you generally need a pretty good NT. And usually a big one. We went smaller with Ratliff and I was fine with that. But, in the 3-4 he's more apt to take a lot of punishment. We did have Josh Brent, but he's almost all but going to be suspended by the league for next year. That creates a GAPING hole at NT. Go to the 4-3 and now you can put Hatcher, Lissemore (who I think is a great fit) and Crawford at DT. You can put Ratliff at DT in the 1-gap and hopefully that will reduce the punishment as he should be doubled less.

Ware is fine in the 4-3 DE. Sprinters don't start from a 2-point stance for a reason. Applies to DE's. Only difference is that Ware won't likely confuse the O-Line and get say a RB trying to block him. But, he won't be giong in coverage either.

Lee is fine at the MIKE. Kiffin drafted Barrett Ruud and did fine with him and Lee is far better than Ruud. Carter is great here. All we really need is a SAM backer and those are not overly difficult to find.

We need much improved safety play. But, we would need that in either scheme.






YR

Good points YR!

One other point - Spencer will command top dollar as an OLB and Dallas likely cant resign him. If we stay the 3-4 and don't resign him we're done because you can't run the 3-4 without 2 OLBs. So if we stay 3-4 we have to break the bank for Spencer - leaving no more money to address other needs.

But in the 4-3, there's no need to sign Spencer. Even Ratliff can play DE with Ware and we have guys who can okay DT. And in the draft it will be much easier to find depth at DT and DE than OLB.