The difference between hope and faith

[TwoCentPlain]

Not talking about the draft, talking about you. There are posters here that feel the root of the problems with this team are the Joneses. It has nothing to do with how much more money he has or a bigger boat.

The OP was a fan of this team before this owner was out of high school and fans have a proprietary feeling about their teams and this team has one common thread running through the fabric of the problem, the owner that decided to be the GM.

What's amusing is that you come into one of his threads doing what you're doing. Did you expect to find a glowing commentary on the GM of the Cowboys from this poster? He's very consistent with his observations about the real problem with his team of 60 years.

Maybe you should start a thread about all of the cool things about the GM but I would expect some pushback if I were you.

To answer your question, at first I did not like this draft. Missed out on both CB's and didn't go up for Barmore and Mohring. But the more I look at this and after Quinn's explanation of what he wants to do, I am liking it more and more.

“I’m not talking about the draft.” Then why did you mention the draft? That makes a whole lot of sense. Not.

I became a Cowboy fan in 1976 when the Cowboys drafted my favorite college player growing up in Pgh, Dorsett. Switched from Tarkenton and the Vikes. If there is something one cares about so much, changing teams is easy.

I was here before Jerry. So what? Jerry doesn’t owe me anything. Fans are free to move around. If some fans hate a GM/player so much and see no hope or whatever or love some other GM/player then they are free to move. Fans are free to complain about the same GM for 25 years if that gives them some joy.

I look at players first, coaching second, and GM third. I don’t use hindsight to blame the GM for everything that goes wrong. Just as I don’t give credit to the GM for everything that goes right.

 

[DallasEast]

Rebellions are built on hope

Rogue One

 

[TwoCentPlain]

5? You can keep it to 5?

1) It wasn't emotions, it was ego
2) He had no choice, blame Irvin for that, not him
3) Agree completely
4) Garrett was in high demand at the time and "quickly" is nebulous but certainly before 10 years
5) He had little choice and tried twice, unsuccessfully, to sign him earlier. And this one goes under Unknown for now because this has yet to play out. And with that new rights to carry contract, the fear of cap abuse went by the wayside.

Yeah, I can easily keep it to 5 since I limited it to major things in my opinion. I don’t nitpick upper management. And they are off the top of my head for a chat discussion and not a PhD thesis.

Irvin’s actions do not let Jerry off the hook when it comes to drafting Moss. That is on the GM. By the way, Jerry and Jimmy and the fans knew exactly what Irvin was doing and did not care. And do not care today.

 

[Sydla]

You can keep your eye on the GM. I focus on what I see on the field from the players and the coaches.

I don’t blame everything on Jerry. Jerry made his mistakes but it is almost all on the players.

My top 5 Jerry mistakes (not in any order):
1) Letting emotions drive the firing of Jimmy
2) Not drafting Moss
3) Caving to Elliot’s holdout
4) Hiring Garrett and not firing him quickly
5) Paying Dak $40M/year

The team has had the talent and chance to win it all numerous times in that period but the players and coaches failed to deliver. The team has been pretty competitive over that period. SB is one way to measure but not the only way.

LOL.

So for 25 years, the reason this franchise has been one of the 6-7 worst franchises in terms of playoff successes is not the guy picking the players or the guy picking the coaches. It's the players and coaches' fault?

It's funny how you list Garrett as a mistake. You realize that mistake CARRIED OVER A DECADE HERE. That's Jerry's fault. And it's a huge mistake. As was hiring guys like Dave Campo and Chan Gailey to be the HC. Jerry is the dumbwad who hired the bad coaches that you want to blame for not getting Jerry a SB win or more playoff success.

Jerry Jones is the single biggest reason this franchise has floundered for 25 years. When he built a decent roster, he often had it handcuffed by a bad or mediocre head coach that he hired. When he had a competent coach, he handcuffed the coach with a questionable roster.

 

[ArtClink]

@Bobhaze Another front office rant. You just can’t stop yourself, can you? Same old, same old. Did Jerry go ‘Hollywood Knights - Don’t drink the punch’ in your wheaties again this morning?

Hope has nothing to do with the outcome of a game. No amount of hope will change anything. Faith is a different animal and forum rules probably do not allow me to speak on that topic.

“When I look at who’s running this organization, with all their fat cat arrogance, hubris, and long history of mediocrity (at best) on the field, faith is not available to me.”

Jerry has a bigger boat than me.
Jerry has more money than me.
Jerry has a football team.
I hate Jerry.

Did you enjoy those past 25 seasons (ie no divisional playoff wins)? I hope you did. I hope you did very much.

 

[ArtClink]

The difference between hope and faith is a fine line...

Every year, I hope this team has finally put together a strong roster, a collection of motivated coaches, and Lady Luck’s maximum blessing to drive a deep playoff run. I’m not getting any younger, so my patience to wait on this happening is fraying like an old rope. When you’ve waited a quarter of a century for even a divisional playoff game win, patience is not something I have with this team. No Cowboys fan should be expected to have patience at this point.

But I do have hope.

• I hope this team can build at least a middle of the pack defense that forces TOs and gets key stops.
• I hope Dak’s leg is fine.
• I hope Tyron Smith has at least 20 good games left in his aging body.
• I hope the OL can return to form.
• I hope this draft and collection of FAs has at least 4-5 players who make an immediate impact, especially on defense.
• I hope Big Mac got all the stupid in-game decisions out of his system last year.
• I hope Dan Quinn is able to rebuild and motivate this defense.
• I hope having a more normal off season helps implement good change.
• I hope Jerry can somehow talk less and let his coaches work with less interference. (I doubt it)
• I hope the injury pestilence stays far away this year.

Yes, I have hope all or most of those things can happen. Do I have faith they will? No. To me, faith involves more certainty than hope. When I look at who’s running this organization, with all their fat cat arrogance, hubris, and long history of mediocrity (at best) on the field, faith is not available to me. My mantra with this team since about 2008 is “I will believe it when it happens.”

But I have hope. Here’s hoping we have a great 2021.

As Dan McDowell said about the Dallas Jonesboys, "Hope is not a strategy"

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Did you enjoy those past 25 seasons (ie no divisional playoff wins)? I hope you did. I hope you did very much.

I enjoy every season. Win or lose. Of course, I enjoy some seasons more than others.

Winning and losing a game in which I am a mere observer is out of my control.

I am sorry your Cowboy viewing experience may have been miserable these past 25 years. I hope it did not affect other parts of your life.

Be humble in victory and look to improve. Be consoling in defeat and look to build each other up.

As a kid, I was a Viking fan when I saw the Hail Mary. I was a Cowboy fan when I saw the Catch - Dwight Clark. I was pretty miserable after those two. I admit I Haven’t really recovered from the Catch misery yet. Love watching videos of the Hail Mary now, though. Still can’t watch the Catch.

 

[ArtClink]

I enjoy every season. Win or lose. Of course, I enjoy some seasons more than others.

Winning and losing a game in which I am a mere observer is out of my control.

I am sorry your Cowboy viewing experience may have been miserable these past 25 years. I hope it did not affect other parts of your life.

Be humble in victory and look to improve. Be consoling in defeat and look to build each other up.

As a kid, I was a Viking fan when I saw the Hail Mary. I was a Cowboy fan when I saw the Catch - Dwight Clark. I was pretty miserable after those two. I admit I Haven’t really recovered from the Catch misery yet. Love watching videos of the Hail Mary now, though. Still can’t watch the Catch.

My Cowboys experience does not impact my life in the least bit. I just hate seeing a once proud franchise hit decades of playoff irrelevance because the fuhrer and son do the same things over and over and expect different results.

 

[Bobhaze]

I enjoy every season. Win or lose. Of course, I enjoy some seasons more than others.

Winning and losing a game in which I am a mere observer is out of my control.

I am sorry your Cowboy viewing experience may have been miserable these past 25 years. I hope it did not affect other parts of your life.

Be humble in victory and look to improve. Be consoling in defeat and look to build each other up.

As a kid, I was a Viking fan when I saw the Hail Mary. I was a Cowboy fan when I saw the Catch - Dwight Clark. I was pretty miserable after those two. I admit I Haven’t really recovered from the Catch misery yet. Love watching videos of the Hail Mary now, though. Still can’t watch the Catch.

Ninj, you’re the champ of this thread you so don’t like. With 8 posts, you’re clearly the leader in the clubhouse, lol. Just pulling’ your chain...we can agree to disagree about Jerry or any other topic here. For the record, I don’t hate Jerry. I just hate the results we’ve been getting, and he’s the one constant all these years.

 

[Rayman70]

somewhere between hope and faith lies REALITY. Thats where the front office and staff better be right now. The draft was very encouraging.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Ninj, you’re the champ of this thread you so don’t like. With 8 posts, you’re clearly the leader in the clubhouse, lol. Just pulling’ your chain...we can agree to disagree about Jerry or any other topic here. For the record, I don’t hate Jerry. I just hate the results we’ve been getting, and he’s the one constant all these years.

Might not have looked like it, but it was fun. And we got perhaps a record number of mods in a thread

Hopefully, everyone can see an issue from many sides. Yes, Jerry has his faults but he is not THE reason for no SB these past 25 years in my opinion. But, I don’t think we will agree. Fair enough. Good stuff.

 

[Bobhaze]

My Cowboys experience does not impact my life in the least bit. I just hate seeing a once proud franchise hit decades of playoff irrelevance because the fuhrer and son do the same things over and over and expect different results.

That pretty well sums it up for me Arturo.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

When you look at the definition of a forum- “a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged...” A key being exchange of ideas and views. The day everyone on here agrees on every subject is the day this place will get BORING!

I agree. But "agreement" wasn't really my point. Supporting and cheering on the Cowboys....IS. "fan" is short for fanatic. I suppose you say even a mass bomber is a fanatic...destroying not creating. (oh boy I just had a bad thought...creating *by* destroying? )

But of course...respectful disagreement or {gasp} change of heart even...is good. Iron sharpens iron man sharpens man. Not sure that is the aim of persons I was talking about.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

“I’m not talking about the draft.” Then why did you mention the draft? That makes a whole lot of sense. Not.

I became a Cowboy fan in 1976 when the Cowboys drafted my favorite college player growing up in Pgh, Dorsett. Switched from Tarkenton and the Vikes. If there is something one cares about so much, changing teams is easy.

I was here before Jerry. So what? Jerry doesn’t owe me anything. Fans are free to move around. If some fans hate a GM/player so much and see no hope or whatever or love some other GM/player then they are free to move. Fans are free to complain about the same GM for 25 years if that gives them some joy.

I look at players first, coaching second, and GM third. I don’t use hindsight to blame the GM for everything that goes wrong. Just as I don’t give credit to the GM for everything that goes right.

If you don't like the product why would you keep using it AND complain? And some people call Jerry the insane one. (doing the same thing and expecting different results) .

 

[Ranched]

I hope Big Mac Kellen Moore got all the stupid in-game decisions out of his system last year.

FIFY

 

[75boyz]

"Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

 

[Doomsday101]

I must be an optimist. lol... I look at each season as a season of it's own, I base my views on the expectation I have based how I perceive the talent level within a given year. There have been years under Campo that those expectation where not high because the talent level had dropped so low. Under Garrett we have constant up and down seasons, finish 13-3 one season drop to 8-8 the following never backing up the progress always 1 step forward 2 steps back. Last season I did have high expectations but also concerns over the defense, while defense was worse than I expected the unexpected of mass injury on offense was the nail in the coffin. I always judge based on what I see today not what I saw 25 years ago or last year, every season is the start of a new season regardless of what you did last year. Heading into this season much like last year I see the talent on offense that I feel they can be a very good offensive team my concerns again are with defense, I like the moves they have made starting with firing Nolan and bringing in Quinn and I like hitting the draft hard on defense but still unsure of what to expect from them but have to think it has to be better than what I saw last season.

 

[Sydla]

If you don't like the product why would you keep using it AND complain? And some people call Jerry the insane one. (doing the same thing and expecting different results) .

So what's the recourse? Go be a fan of another team?

Comparing being a fan of a team to say dishwasher detergent, that you can change on a whim if you don't like it, is kind of dumb.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

So what's the recourse? Go be a fan of another team?

Comparing being a fan of a team to say dishwasher detergent, that you can change on a whim if you don't like it, is kind of dumb.

Yes. That's what I am saying.

Not everyone who is unsatisfied, of course. As has been mention...we're pretty much all disappointed at our long streak. I am talking abotu the people perpetually miserable, and trying to convince others to be the same. Or they "aren't a real fan".

We have them here...like I said not all that many but enough. If you aren't one, great. If you are that is fine too. "Being happy is a moral obligation." If being a Cowboys fan doesn't make you happy...(we're talking at the CORE of this team...not some player)...then find one that DOES make you happy.

(not you you...in general).

 

[eromeopolk]

The difference between hope and faith is a fine line...

Every year, I hope this team has finally put together a strong roster, a collection of motivated coaches, and Lady Luck’s maximum blessing to drive a deep playoff run. I’m not getting any younger, so my patience to wait on this happening is fraying like an old rope. When you’ve waited a quarter of a century for even a divisional playoff game win, patience is not something I have with this team. No Cowboys fan should be expected to have patience at this point.

But I do have hope.

• I hope this team can build at least a middle of the pack defense that forces TOs and gets key stops.
• I hope Dak’s leg is fine.
• I hope Tyron Smith has at least 20 good games left in his aging body.
• I hope the OL can return to form.
• I hope this draft and collection of FAs has at least 4-5 players who make an immediate impact, especially on defense.
• I hope Big Mac got all the stupid in-game decisions out of his system last year.
• I hope Dan Quinn is able to rebuild and motivate this defense.
• I hope having a more normal off season helps implement good change.
• I hope Jerry can somehow talk less and let his coaches work with less interference. (I doubt it)
• I hope the injury pestilence stays far away this year.

Yes, I have hope all or most of those things can happen. Do I have faith they will? No. To me, faith involves more certainty than hope. When I look at who’s running this organization, with all their fat cat arrogance, hubris, and long history of mediocrity (at best) on the field, faith is not available to me. My mantra with this team since about 2008 is “I will believe it when it happens.”

But I have hope. Here’s hoping we have a great 2021.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. At least that is what some guy name Paul or Apollos said +2000 years ago.

I hope the Cowboys win, get to the playoffs, get to the NFC Championship game, and win the Super Bowl.

I have no faith in Jerry Dumbo GM Jones to make this happen.

You are right. Their is a big difference as a Cowboys fan for the last 26 years between faith and hope.