The Draft and 40 times

Chuck 54

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Michael Irvin ran a 4.52 at the combine.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 at the combine.

Speed is nice, but greatness comes in all sizes and speeds.
I want a RB who runs great routes, catches the ball with his hands, and has produced big time in college.
I want a RB with vision who sees the guy behind the guy trying to tackle him, a guy who makes defenders miss, and gets more than what was blocked for him, and has produced big time in college.

Wait for day three of the draft before gambling on traits you think can be developed.

My choices:
- WR in round 1….TMac, Golden, Edbuka (happy with any one of them at 12 or in a trade down)

- RB in round 2….Johnson, Henderson, Judkins (happy with any of them, assuming Hampton is gone)

- We can find quality CB, DT, Edge, and other depth in the rest of the draft. If someone wants a starting RG in the draft (I don’t think the Cowboys are thinking that way), we would have to do that early, probably pushing RB down into a danger zone.
 
Michael Irvin ran a 4.52 at the combine.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 at the combine.

Speed is nice, but greatness comes in all sizes and speeds.
I want a RB who runs great routes, catches the ball with his hands, and has produced big time in college.
I want a RB with vision who sees the guy behind the guy trying to tackle him, a guy who makes defenders miss, and gets more than what was blocked for him, and has produced big time in college.

Wait for day three of the draft before gambling on traits you think can be developed.

My choices:
- WR in round 1….TMac, Golden, Edbuka (happy with any one of them at 12 or in a trade down)

- RB in round 2….Johnson, Henderson, Judkins (happy with any of them, assuming Hampton is gone)

- We can find quality CB, DT, Edge, and other depth in the rest of the draft. If someone wants a starting RG in the draft (I don’t think the Cowboys are thinking that way), we would have to do that early, probably pushing RB down into a danger zone.
When we get too hung up on 40 times and specific measurables we could end up missing on some real great football players that just get it done. I haven't been a huge fan of a first round receiver but Tmac has just produced and reminds me a lot of a Mike Evans type of receiver. I get the questions that came up from a video a couple years ago and speed for seperation, but he's just produced. I wouldn't be upset with that pick.

Golden is intriguing, but wonder a little bit about the lack of dominance over his college career. His blazing 40 time likely shoots him up draft boards, but really think he's a high ceiling, low floor type of prospect.

2nd round I would be happy with any of those guys you mentioned.
 
It's about skill in whatever you do best on the field, and if you have speed that's a skill that helps your team win. When Turp ran that KO return for a TD vs WAS everyone was cheering. You guys keep mentioning Golden like he wasn't good on tape. Ladd McConley didn't dominate college, yet had a great season as a rookie.

All this want to draft Offense at premium picks is cool, as long as, the same folks don't turn around and blame the Defense and expect them to shut other teams Offense down when Dak n company is sputtering...don't say one word.
 
Also related is the conference/“level of competition” snobbery.

Walter Payton played for an HBC, as did Jerry Rice (I believe).

Aaron Rodgers came out of the Pac-10.

Demarcus Ware went to Troy State.
 
Michael Irvin ran a 4.52 at the combine.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 at the combine.

Speed is nice, but greatness comes in all sizes and speeds.
I want a RB who runs great routes, catches the ball with his hands, and has produced big time in college.
I want a RB with vision who sees the guy behind the guy trying to tackle him, a guy who makes defenders miss, and gets more than what was blocked for him, and has produced big time in college.

Wait for day three of the draft before gambling on traits you think can be developed.

My choices:
- WR in round 1….TMac, Golden, Edbuka (happy with any one of them at 12 or in a trade down)

- RB in round 2….Johnson, Henderson, Judkins (happy with any of them, assuming Hampton is gone)

- We can find quality CB, DT, Edge, and other depth in the rest of the draft. If someone wants a starting RG in the draft (I don’t think the Cowboys are thinking that way), we would have to do that early, probably pushing RB down into a danger zone.
SPEED these days is the difference in terms of where you could be potentially drafted at. You see a guy from "North Arlington State" a small school, who was projected to go in the 5th round, ends up running a 4.29 and his draft stock rises!!!!

Then you have guys like the Miami kid who ran a 4.8, I ask you this, you have that kid, and I think it was Hunter they said who DIDN'T run a 40. Maybe the Miami kid shouldn't have ran his 40, and Hunter who probably didn't need to run it because he's already known as an electric player and has nothing to prove. It's a win/lose situation!
 
Damn the 40 times stuff, some of the other workouts they do for certain players is non-important because they'll NEVER use those skills they're being tested on! Why are you testing a OL vertical?? Lol who the hell are they jumping to protect??? Their job is to stay low right?? :facepalm:
 
All this want to draft Offense at premium picks is cool, as long as, the same folks don't turn around and blame the Defense and expect them to shut other teams Offense down
It's like some forgot the Cowboys can't stop the run.
 
Speed kills. This is still true.
Speed cannot be taught. Also true.

Still, speed alone is not the answer. At the end of the day, the ability to play football is the most important factor in choosing players. Some guys are not especially fast, but they have a high football IQ and that more than compensates for the lack of real speed. Some guys are tougher and more motivated to succeed, and that makes them successful. Don't underestimate quickness which is more important that straight line speed, which is why teams pay attention to the 10 yard splits, and the cone and shuttle drills.

But, speed adds a dimension that cannot be overlooked by defenses. This is undeniable.
 
What good does speed do for a WR who can't take a hit, can't run precise routes, can't catch, has poor vision and bad intelligence?

Speed is an asset, but perhaps overrated with respect to receivers. A lot of really fast WR's have washed out.
 
Michael Irvin ran a 4.52 at the combine.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 at the combine.

Speed is nice, but greatness comes in all sizes and speeds.
I want a RB who runs great routes, catches the ball with his hands, and has produced big time in college.
I want a RB with vision who sees the guy behind the guy trying to tackle him, a guy who makes defenders miss, and gets more than what was blocked for him, and has produced big time in college.

Wait for day three of the draft before gambling on traits you think can be developed.

My choices:
- WR in round 1….TMac, Golden, Edbuka (happy with any one of them at 12 or in a trade down)

- RB in round 2….Johnson, Henderson, Judkins (happy with any of them, assuming Hampton is gone)

- We can find quality CB, DT, Edge, and other depth in the rest of the draft. If someone wants a starting RG in the draft (I don’t think the Cowboys are thinking that way), we would have to do that early, probably pushing RB down into a danger zone.
I agree to a point. most people tend to fall in love with the measurables like olympic athletes and fantasize about what that player can do because of that. its probably the Madden football generation....

I tend to look at a functional range...if a WR ran a 4.75, then probably challenging for them to play the position, but between 4.45 and 4.6 would be functional. then you look at the rest. also the biggest thing is productivity. can they play football. are they smart. for example for a WR, can they run routes, foot work (which is extremley important), recognition, catching away from the body, etc....are they a football player!? Irvin was a football player. impecable discipline. great size. and his route running was incredible. how he set up the DBs, used his body, it was plain awsome. emmitt had vision, probably the best foot work of any RB ever. never a wasted motion, quick, decisive and patient. he could see a play develop ahead of it being developed.

also, I hate these runs without full pads. how well do they run with pads on. Irvin was a big man...the pads, and extra weight was nothing to him. vs. a guy who was 6' and 175 pounds.

and in the end. the difference between 4.5 and 4.55 is literally nothing.

so I am with you. TMac is a great college WR. has produced and the time is meaningless. he produces. plain and simple. I like Golden, but little less than TMax, mostly because he is so much smaller, which limits some of what he can do and what you can do with him. if we take golden at 12, I would be slighly not happy as I think we can have him a little lower in the round, but in the end if he produces, it doesn't matter. I don't like any of the other WRs as I think they weren't really as productive.

I like the way you have round 1 and 2 broken down. I would be very happy with any of those choices in first two rounds and call it the day.
 
Damn the 40 times stuff, some of the other workouts they do for certain players is non-important because they'll NEVER use those skills they're being tested on! Why are you testing a OL vertical?? Lol who the hell are they jumping to protect??? Their job is to stay low right?? :facepalm:
The vertical test is a measure of lower body strength. For o-linemen, it's all about that initial burst off the LOS. Mazi needs this an hour each day.
 
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Speed kills. This is still true.
Speed cannot be taught. Also true.

Still, speed alone is not the answer. At the end of the day, the ability to play football is the most important factor in choosing players. Some guys are not especially fast, but they have a high football IQ and that more than compensates for the lack of real speed. Some guys are tougher and more motivated to succeed, and that makes them successful. Don't underestimate quickness which is more important that straight line speed, which is why teams pay attention to the 10 yard splits, and the cone and shuttle drills.

But, speed adds a dimension that cannot be overlooked by defenses. This is undeniable.
Well said. In addition, there are drills taken from track that teach techniques to get off the LOS quicker. Desean Jackson runs a clinic that teaches the first three steps off the LOS.
 
Speed kills. This is still true.
Speed cannot be taught. Also true.

Still, speed alone is not the answer. At the end of the day, the ability to play football is the most important factor in choosing players. Some guys are not especially fast, but they have a high football IQ and that more than compensates for the lack of real speed. Some guys are tougher and more motivated to succeed, and that makes them successful. Don't underestimate quickness which is more important that straight line speed, which is why teams pay attention to the 10 yard splits, and the cone and shuttle drills.

But, speed adds a dimension that cannot be overlooked by defenses. This is undeniable.
Randall Williams showed that speed by itself is not going to make for a real NFL career
 
Michael Irvin ran a 4.52 at the combine.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 at the combine.

Speed is nice, but greatness comes in all sizes and speeds.
I want a RB who runs great routes, catches the ball with his hands, and has produced big time in college.
I want a RB with vision who sees the guy behind the guy trying to tackle him, a guy who makes defenders miss, and gets more than what was blocked for him, and has produced big time in college.

Wait for day three of the draft before gambling on traits you think can be developed.

My choices:
- WR in round 1….TMac, Golden, Edbuka (happy with any one of them at 12 or in a trade down)

- RB in round 2….Johnson, Henderson, Judkins (happy with any of them, assuming Hampton is gone)

- We can find quality CB, DT, Edge, and other depth in the rest of the draft. If someone wants a starting RG in the draft (I don’t think the Cowboys are thinking that way), we would have to do that early, probably pushing RB down into a danger zone.
Correct you can add Jerry Rice to that list and many others however you can go the opposite with the narratives too i'm tired of hearing about how tall and how good a leaper that Tet Mcmillan is,

I mean we got a guy similar to that on a team right now you want to develop Mingo go ahead if that's all we're looking at is a dude that can jump tell me more before you say we're knocking his size because I never heard of the guy until this draft process started the combine and people started talking about him...

That's the thing with the draft they got to be very very deep in all the film work and talking in the interviews not only with the players ex coaches ex teammates and make sure who they pick is worth where you're picking them no reaches no red flags no injury concerns we got to do this right in the 1st 3ROUNDS we need to find two starters and a strong role player all three picks I say they're probably better off moving around especially moving down 5 to 6 spots in the 1st round and still getting their targets...

I'm not saying TET is not any good or worth the pick but it's odd that I watch a lot of football maybe not a lot of college football and this year not the big 12 because Texas moved into the SEC, but I never heard of the guy, and yes he looks consistent, he looks like he puts up good numbers, he looks li But I'm putting his floor at Michael Gallup and I'm putting his ceiling at Michael Thomas. they look like similar players.. I mean if you want to even use AJ Brown if you want... Let's just hope he's not just an Alvin Harper type because we need more of that at 12 if you're picking this guy in the first round and yes that's a big guy with speed so I just popped in my head but we need more than a role player we need a true 1B on the other side of lamb...


But this is just about the front office making sure they do their due diligence and pick the right guy not just for his speed we've seen that with running backs and receivers and them not be very good at much else than not being able to handle the physical transition to the NFL but we've also seen these dudes you fall in love with their size and they don't live up to route running getting separation getting open they dropped the ball a lot so there's a mixture of these guys in the draft and I hope they picked the right ones..

.
 
Agreed. Game speed is all that matters. I fear they are going to pass on the next tee higgens for the next john ross.
Excellent point. Jerry Rice never had a great 40, yet I don't remember seeing anyone run him down not named Darrell Green. It may have happened, but it was rare. Game speed vs 40 speed is a real thing. It works both ways. I know this because I experienced it. It's all adrenalin based. Or sometimes called fear speed. For some people they just can't get the adrenalin going in a race, or a 40 time. It's like running uphill. But in a game, you're running downhill.
 
Michael Irvin ran a 4.52 at the combine.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 at the combine.

Speed is nice, but greatness comes in all sizes and speeds.
I want a RB who runs great routes, catches the ball with his hands, and has produced big time in college.
I want a RB with vision who sees the guy behind the guy trying to tackle him, a guy who makes defenders miss, and gets more than what was blocked for him, and has produced big time in college.

Wait for day three of the draft before gambling on traits you think can be developed.

My choices:
- WR in round 1….TMac, Golden, Edbuka (happy with any one of them at 12 or in a trade down)

- RB in round 2….Johnson, Henderson, Judkins (happy with any of them, assuming Hampton is gone)

- We can find quality CB, DT, Edge, and other depth in the rest of the draft. If someone wants a starting RG in the draft (I don’t think the Cowboys are thinking that way), we would have to do that early, probably pushing RB down into a danger zone.
this is so Jerry jones leaking we are looking heavy at WR to get everyone pumped up that we are taking a outside player only to take a DT/OG to solidify the lines. people are going to loose there minds draft night.
 
Michael Irvin ran a 4.52 at the combine.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.55 at the combine.
I think Irvin's game speed was very good in comparison to those chasing him. I think Emmitt is about right. Emmitt was super quick. He was at top speed the second he got through the line. If he had Tony Dorsett's speed, my God.
 

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