The "Griffen is Charles Haley" Comparison

ClappingCarrot said:
I like the Griffen signing, but this can be a little pre-mature. The Cowboys were the 17th ranked defense before Haley came to town, and after his arrival they were #1. 6 sacks or not in 1992, he was a two time DPOY and a HOF'er.

If Griffen can manage a 16 game season without issue, and a few sacks, I'd call it a brilliant signing.
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No disrespect but I dont care about rankings or stats.

I know that Haley made all the difference pressure wise on those teams and there weren't guys that were all that great individually, but they were a good enough unit collectively, not a dominant unit.

Win games.

Rankings are based on yards allowed when they are given away sometimes when games are decided.
 
Kaiser said:
I do think he elevates the defense, Quinn was an excellent pass rusher but weak against the run so opponents could just run delays at the RDE spot.

Quinn was a lot more one dimensional as an outside rusher while Griffen can rush outside or inside.

Griffen gives you the same or better pass rush but eliminates that hole on rushing defense. So more passing attempts and better pass rush from your DTs McCoy, Poe, Crawford, etc than Woods and Collins.
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Both Griffen and Aldon Smith are considered to be strong against the run, so I don't think we have to be concerned about being weak in that regard at RDE while putting a pass rusher out there. I was expecting better from Quinn against the run, but I think he was doing what the coaching staff asked of him, lining up wide and trying to go around the outside on most downs, which made it predictable for beating him on running plays.
 
Let's hold off claiming Everett Griffen is the next coming of Charles Haley. This team needs to show they can reach the playoffs first. He has the potential to become a difference maker, but the team as a whole must improve upon several areas first. If this team can start playing more ahead of the scoreboard, then always playing catch-up, this year's Cowboy Team could become very dangerous. My biggest worry now for the defense is more about them being poor tacklers, that lead to big plays.
 
Its all about the sum..Parts are nice but, the sum gets **** done. WE have sum now. Reinstate Gregory and Dallas can play in the top 5 ish...Its a good football team folks..
 
fivetwos said:
No disrespect but I dont care about rankings or stats.

I know that Haley made all the difference pressure wise on those teams and there weren't guys that were all that great individually, but they were a good enough unit collectively, not a dominant unit.

Win games.

Rankings are based on yards allowed when they are given away sometimes when games are decided.
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I think one of the keys to those units is that there was not much drop-off to the backups. We had a rotation where you didn't have any true weak links.

One of the most frustrating things with Marinelli for me was his insistence in mass substituting the defense line with clearly inferior players. If we're going to mass substitute or substitute frequently, we need quality depth.

Now, we have Lawrence, Griffen and Smith at DE and McCoy, Woods, Poe and Crawford at DT. That's seven starter-quality players, with some obviously better than others. If some of the younger players get a spot in the rotation, it should be because they've earned it not because we had no other options (unless, of course, because of injury).
 
JBond said:
Cowboys vs Chiefs is going to be an amazing Super Bowl.
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Not unless our secondary is a big surprise, they’ll go right over the top, but it will be a good game. Could be Baltimore as well.
 
Can we find our own Everson Griffen in the fourth round like Minnesota did?? That would make me very very happy.
 
Kaiser said:
Reading Bob Sturm’s article on signing Griffen, he loves the player and the move. Some of his comments are “Everson Griffen is a fantastic football player. Griffen can win with power or speed. by my standards this is a ridiculous bargain”. Bucky Brooks calls him a “high-end EDGE defender with game-changing ability”

The comparison came to mind of Charles Haley as the player who “put the team over the top”. No one has posted that here - but why not?

Haley was acquired in 1992 and Dallas won the next two Super Bowls. Not guaranteeing rings in 2021 and 2022 obviously but IMO you can make the comparison as the edge rusher who changes the level of the defense – and from that elevates the level of the entire team. Griffen is a game-changer and joins a defense that has five other players who have been to a Pro Bowl (six if you include Clinton-Dix). Griffen will play opposite an elite DE in DLaw and have guys rotating in like Aldon Smith, Anae, Armstrong and potentially Randy Gregory. The secondary is unsettled but there are three LBs behind him that have been to a Pro Bowl. We already knew the offense has elite talent.

Is Griffen young and playing at his previous level? No, but when Charles Haley was acquired in 1992 the team won the next two Super Bowls with Haley posting decent but not great stats. Haley had 6 sacks in 1992 and 4 in 1993, this effect on offenses was as much about accounting for him as his actual sacks. He didn’t make the Pro Bowl either year, but did the following two years when he posted 23 sacks over 94 and 95. Accounting for Griffen is going to give DLaw more sack opportunities and our Nickel DTs opportunities when the QB moves up in the pocket after pressure from Griffen.

Not predicting SB rings, but you can certainly make the comparison as Griffen being the missing piece that moves the overall level of our defense up several notches.
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not just him but MM and the new staff, better Kicker to start the year, Aldon Smith, Mccoy, Poe, Haha, Ceedee , and maybe Hill and neville make a good step for rotational needs, and if Diggs and the backend can hold up at all this is an improved TEAM< On paper..

ON PAPER

but yes with 2020 being so depressing so far all these moves got me excited..
 
gimmesix said:
I think one of the keys to those units is that there was not much drop-off to the backups. We had a rotation where you didn't have any true weak links.

One of the most frustrating things with Marinelli for me was his insistence in mass substituting the defense line with clearly inferior players. If we're going to mass substitute or substitute frequently, we need quality depth.

Now, we have Lawrence, Griffen and Smith at DE and McCoy, Woods, Poe and Crawford at DT. That's seven starter-quality players, with some obviously better than others. If some of the younger players get a spot in the rotation, it should be because they've earned it not because we had no other options (unless, of course, because of injury).
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Well if we keep drafting the way we have we wont have such a top heavy roster.

It gives options later on. The draft is crazy key to everything.

Filling in w vets that have a bit left is another key.

We look ok. We have a chance. Cant ask for more.
 
Cowboysheelsreds053 said:
My brother who was on those niners teams during the day, told me that we got the player that would make us SB contenders in Charles H.
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Totally agree, he was the pass rusher that was missing before.

My OP wasn't that Haley and Griffen are the same player, but that he could be the same type of missing link that puts the Cowboys over the top.

For direct comparison, those teams had Haley and Tony Tolbert. This one now has DLaw and Griffen. Which pair would you rather have?
 
Kaiser said:
Totally agree, he was the pass rusher that was missing before.

My OP wasn't that Haley and Griffen are the same player, but that he could be the same type of missing link that puts the Cowboys over the top.

For direct comparison, those teams had Haley and Tony Tolbert. This one now has DLaw and Griffen. Which pair would you rather have?
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Would go the latter but Haley was a beast and the man. My brother had some great stories about CH though.
 
nyc-cowboy said:
Does this mean HaHa is our Thomas Everitt. ; )
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I'm sure he hopes so. Everett, James Washington, Larry Brown, Brock Marion - all those guys made a pile of money in free agency after being OK safeties in our glory years.
 
I'm completely on board with the impact he might have on this defense. That said, Aldon Smith is probably a better comparison from the risk/reward aspect.
 
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