The Hail Mary Game

[StarOfGlory]

Like now now?

LOL, look at the time of the OP. What a throwback game!

 

[SFloridaCowboy]

The icing on the cake of that great Hail Mary game was Too Tall Jones telling the world: "I will take over this game and I will close it out. No one will stop me." He got two sacks on the Vikes' last drive, sending a surge of electricity through my arms and making me feel great that I was there in 1974 when he was the first pick of the draft. I yearn for the glory days of yesteryear.

 

[Flamma]

It truly was a different game back then

You look at the shots that Roger took; today they would throw that player out of the game and suspend him for six

and look at the hits the WRs took. Same thing.

That type of football ground down everyone so much faster. Back then, once you hit thirty you were going down hill fast. Seeing anyone at the top of their game at say 33 or so just did not happen unless you were a punter or kicker

except for the exceptions like Tarkenton and Roger

I have a slow job. So I watch a lot of games from back in the 70s and 80s. The one thing that stands out is how much more violent those games are. It smacks you in the face. We're slowly conditioned for today's game. But if you go back and watch some of those older games, it's a lot more violent.

It reminds me of some of the old baseball games I watch. I watched game 7 of the 1960 WS. I think I saw two times where a player swung and missed. Everything was put into play.

 

[Ranching]

And then, bam! Here came Jerry.

Where?

 

[RonnieT24]

There's no bias when it comes to Ed Jones - he's not a Hall of Fame player. He only had two seasons with more than 10 sacks, made one All Pro team and had three Pro Bowl berths in a 15 year career. Good player, not close to a HOF player.

Too Tall played like the first 10 or 11 years of his career before they even kept note of sacks. His numbers before 1982? are pretty much guestimated. He also played the non-rush end in Landry's defense. He was never going to put up gaudy sack numbers. But if you watched him play his impact on the game was undeniable. But I would love to hear your justification for Bob Hayes having to die before he got to the Hall despite completely rewriting the way pass defense had to be played. Or how about Everson Walls who led the NFL in interceptions twice but can't even make a final. Or how about Drew Pearson being the LAST MEMBER of the 1970's All Decade Team to make it last year? Does anyone here really think John Lynch was a better safety than Darren Woodson? Nate Newton was a 6 time pro bowler, a two time all pro and part of one of the best offensive lines of all time. He has never even been a finalist. The Hall shuns the Cowboys.. It's a fact.. and it does not need your acknowledgement to remain a fact.

 

[cowboyec]

 

[StarOfGlory]

Too Tall played like the first 10 or 11 years of his career before they even kept note of sacks. His numbers before 1982? are pretty much guestimated. He also played the non-rush end in Landry's defense. He was never going to put up gaudy sack numbers. But if you watched him play his impact on the game was undeniable. But I would love to hear your justification for Bob Hayes having to die before he got to the Hall despite completely rewriting the way pass defense had to be played. Or how about Everson Walls who led the NFL in interceptions twice but can't even make a final. Or how about Drew Pearson being the LAST MEMBER of the 1970's All Decade Team to make it last year? Does anyone here really think John Lynch was a better safety than Darren Woodson? Nate Newton was a 6 time pro bowler, a two time all pro and part of one of the best offensive lines of all time. He has never even been a finalist. The Hall shuns the Cowboys.. It's a fact.. and it does not need your acknowledgement to remain a fact.

Every team can say the same about players they've had. There is no bias. Giant fans have been whining for decades about Carl Banks not being in the HoF, and he's on the all-1980's team. Eagle and Bills fans will argue for LeSean McCoy, but I doubt he gets in.

Nate Newton should be in. But only 12 pure guards are in the HoF, so it isn't as if lesser players have pushed him aside. He will get in.

Everson Walls had a HoF first five years, then a good career afterwards with a few average years tossed in. I understand why he is not in.

Woodson and Lynch are near equals. Woodson should be in, but modern safeties in the Hall are the elite of the pack. Woodson will get in. The most recent safety inductees are Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Lynch. Neither Lynch nor Woodson are the caliber of Dawkins, Reed, or Polamalu.

I am convinced that Hayes's drug and legal issues hurt his chances for many years.

 

[Plankton]

Too Tall played like the first 10 or 11 years of his career before they even kept note of sacks. His numbers before 1982? are pretty much guestimated. He also played the non-rush end in Landry's defense. He was never going to put up gaudy sack numbers. But if you watched him play his impact on the game was undeniable. But I would love to hear your justification for Bob Hayes having to die before he got to the Hall despite completely rewriting the way pass defense had to be played. Or how about Everson Walls who led the NFL in interceptions twice but can't even make a final. Or how about Drew Pearson being the LAST MEMBER of the 1970's All Decade Team to make it last year? Does anyone here really think John Lynch was a better safety than Darren Woodson? Nate Newton was a 6 time pro bowler, a two time all pro and part of one of the best offensive lines of all time. He has never even been a finalist. The Hall shuns the Cowboys.. It's a fact.. and it does not need your acknowledgement to remain a fact.

If you are going to use the pre-1982 argument in favor of Ed Jones' stats, then you would have to make the same argument for the remainder of his contemporaries. What we can accurately judge him by is that he only made one All-Pro team, and only three Pro Bowls in a 15 year career. Ed Jones was a very good player, and was a key component to the Cowboy defense when he was a player. He was not a Hall of Famer by any measure. Plenty of players had impact on the game, but do not rise to the level of being HOF caliber. A HOF player is the best of the best, and Ed Jones does not land in that category.

Bringing up Bob Hayes, Drew Pearson (BTW, not the last member of the 1970s All Decade Team to make the HOF - Harvey Martin, LC Greenwood, Louis Wright and Dick Anderson were named to the second team for that and have not been enshrined), Darren Woodson and Nate Newton has nothing to do with Ed Jones. Zero. That is obfuscating the argument because you're justifying it on your feelings and not on statistical accomplishment or honors achieved.

The Hall of Fame shunning Cowboys is not the argument. The argument is whether Ed Jones is a HOF caliber player. The answer is no.

 

[gtb1943]

I have a slow job. So I watch a lot of games from back in the 70s and 80s. The one thing that stands out is how much more violent those games are. It smacks you in the face. We're slowly conditioned for today's game. But if you go back and watch some of those older games, it's a lot more violent.

It reminds me of some of the old baseball games I watch. I watched game 7 of the 1960 WS. I think I saw two times where a player swung and missed. Everything was put into play.

old time baseball could be very brutal. Sometimes players sharpened the spikes on their shoes and tried to cut anyone getting in their way when stealing second. Other things as well; brawls were common and quite often the fans joined in.

 

[gtb1943]

Every team can say the same about players they've had. There is no bias. Giant fans have been whining for decades about Carl Banks not being in the HoF, and he's on the all-1980's team. Eagle and Bills fans will argue for LeSean McCoy, but I doubt he gets in.

Nate Newton should be in. But only 12 pure guards are in the HoF, so it isn't as if lesser players have pushed him aside. He will get in.

Everson Walls had a HoF first five years, then a good career afterwards with a few average years tossed in. I understand why he is not in.

Woodson and Lynch are near equals. Woodson should be in, but modern safeties in the Hall are the elite of the pack. Woodson will get in. The most recent safety inductees are Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Lynch. Neither Lynch nor Woodson are the caliber of Dawkins, Reed, or Polamalu.

I am convinced that Hayes's drug and legal issues hurt his chances for many years.

sure did not hurt LTs chances, did it?
anyone looking at the HOF and not seeing bias especially towards East Coast teams is blind

 

[RonnieT24]

Was about to say this. He had that three-year stretch of Pro Bowls and made his one AP1 team but outside of that, others of his time were more productive.

Define productive? Had more sacks? Sure a few guys had more sacks.. but very few had more impact on games than Too Tall. Even if we go gaga over sack numbers check out this list of guys in the Hall with fewer sacks than Jones:

Dan Hampton
Bryant Young
Bob Lilly
Elvin Bethea
Charles Haley
Andre Tippett
Alex Karras...


The list gets pretty long.. All those guys have fewer numbers but somehow got into the Hall. Haley I can see.. 5 rings is 5 rings.. The rest? I dunno...

 

[gtb1943]

Define productive? Had more sacks? Sure a few guys had more sacks.. but very few had more impact on games than Too Tall. Even if we go gaga over sack numbers check out this list of guys in the Hall with fewer sacks than Jones:

Dan Hampton
Bryant Young
Bob Lilly
Elvin Bethea
Charles Haley
Andre Tippett
Alex Karras...


The list gets pretty long.. All those guys have fewer numbers but somehow got into the Hall. Haley I can see.. 5 rings is 5 rings.. The rest? I dunno...

Too Tall only got one first team ALL Pro and too second teams; and three Pro Bowls
that is never going to be enough

 

[fivetwos]

Hey Ranch!
That was my first game too.
Been hooked for 50 years now.

No kidding. It was slightly before my time but does tie into my first Cowboys memory.

I wasn’t much into sports because my dad wasn’t, but I did hear about some sort of ‘miracle’ type thing at the time, and remembered that when watching SB 10 a few weeks later. I specifically recall the last few plays….Roger heaving the ball toward the end zone a couple of times and me expecting the same result.

I remember not understanding when the clock ran out and everyone left the field. I just figured they would keep going until the next miracle happened.

 

[nate dizzle]

John, that run of playoff appearances in the 70s to early 80s was incredible. But, I wonder how the modern fan base would judge those teams.

For years they fell short in the playoffs, NFC Championship game, and SB. But, they were perennial contenders and always in the mix. Much like the Ravens and 49ers currently.

Would we all appreciate being there year after year but coming up short? Those 3 years of 12-5 seasons get zero respect from the fan base. I wonder how the Landry 'Boys would be viewed. I guess of one of the 12-5 teams made the NFC Championship game or one SB it would be different.

Hard to compare a 20 year span that included 2 SB wins and 5 SB appearances and 10 NFCCG appearances to 30 years of not even sniffing a conference championship. You have to have actual success sprinkled in with your potential or it just gets filed under FAIL.

 

[StarOfGlory]

Define productive? Had more sacks? Sure a few guys had more sacks.. but very few had more impact on games than Too Tall. Even if we go gaga over sack numbers check out this list of guys in the Hall with fewer sacks than Jones:

Dan Hampton
Bryant Young
Bob Lilly
Elvin Bethea
Charles Haley
Andre Tippett
Alex Karras...


The list gets pretty long.. All those guys have fewer numbers but somehow got into the Hall. Haley I can see.. 5 rings is 5 rings.. The rest? I dunno...

I think one component that gets lost is the era of when they played. A player that dominated his era under the rules of the time will be looked at differently than a player that has better stats but was clearly not near the top of his position. Is it fair? You decide. Clyde Simmons has 122 sacks and will probably not sniff the hall.

 

[StarOfGlory]

sure did not hurt LTs chances, did it?
anyone looking at the HOF and not seeing bias especially towards East Coast teams is blind

LT was so good he couldn't be ignored. I think you know this.