the pick 5 draft

jterrell

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...the point here is to look at a pool of 5 guys who are rated right about where we are scheduled to pick and select the highest guy based on need and considering earlier draftees.

I am not against taking guys rated a few picks higher than we select but never more than 10 picks because we have plenty of ammo to move up a few slots.

using this list for values...
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings?&start_row=51


51 group:
Ron Brace, NT; Louis Delmas, FS; Duke Robinson, OG; William Moore, SS; Paul Kruger, DE

I'd have to take Delmas. He is ranked 45th which is highest and also fits a position of need.

69 group:
Darry Beckwith, ILB; Kraig Urbik, OG; Herman Johnson, OG; Phil Loadholt, OT; Louis Murphy, WR

I'd grab Beckwith who is the highest rated player and could play passing downs early then become the every down WILB next to James. He is rated the highest of these guys at 63.

97 group:
Dannell Ellerbe, ILB; Lawrence Sidbury, DE/OLB; David Bruton, FS; Mitch King DE/DT; Kevin Ogletree, WR

I'd go with Sidbury here as the depth at OLB is so poor and we really want a raw pass rusher moreso than anything. He is also rated 93rd so again my highest rated guy.

113 group:
Ramses Barden, WR; Scott Mckillop, ILB; Ricky-Jean Francois, DT/DE; Derek Pegues, FS; Jarrett Dillard, WR

I'd have to go with Dillard here. He is the more developed of the two WRs and fills the bill as a slot guy. He isn't super fast but does have great leaping ability and great hands with superb route running.

148 group:
Jasper Brinkley, ILB; Jaime Thomas, OG; Darius Passmore, WR; AQ Shipley, C; Tom Brandstater, QB

Tough call here but I gotta go Shipley. He is over 300 and fits our system pretty well. Wanted to get a QB but may be a tad early to go 3rd QB.

160s group(5th round comp):
Michael Bennett, DE; Mike Wallace, WR; Jason Phillips, ILB; Terrance Taylor, DT/DE; Sammie Lee Hill, NT

Again tough call but I'd have to go with unique speed and Mike Wallace here. Looks a bit like a poor man's Joey Galloway.

184 group:
Bruce Johnson, CB; Lydon Murtha, OT; John Parker Wilson, QB; Ian Campbell DE/OLB; Ian Johnson, RB

Not as much value here but I like Bruce Johnson as a nickel DB so I'll take him. Small and not very strong but a solid cover guy in the slot.

190s group:(6th round comp)
Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB

Got to take that 3rd QB here and get Nathan Brown. Intriguing prospect with measurables similar to Romo.

193 group:
Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB --- Same as above... these picks will be fairly close together.

Let me have Mauga here. Could be a pup guy as a rookie but has decent size and speed. Special teamer is nothing else.

210 group: ---looking ta players in the 225 range here because of comps)
Garrett Reynolds, OT; Domonique Johnson, CB; Deon Butler, WR: Victor Butler, OLB; Brice McCain, CB

Just want this guy to be able to make the team or PS. I like the long term chances for Garrett Reynolds so I'll grab him here as a PS OT.

Anyways this exercise lets you go through and see what various positions seem to have available at each value grouping. It was somewhat intriguing to me.


As a sum total:

51: Delmas whom I expect to start over Sensabaugh eventually(i.e. next year when Sensabaugh is gone) and play nickel day 1.

69: Darry Bechwith whom I expect to be a nickel backer day 1 and eventually an every down player for us.

97: Sidbury who can be our first attempt to add a pass rusher this draft. Not a certain contributor as a rookie but has a chance to help.

113: Jarret Dillard who reminds me a bit of Patrick Crayton. A bit faster but a bit smaller. Excellent route-runner and great hands guy. Depth Wr who could surprise.

148: Shipley who can back up Gurode for a year or so then take over. This guy won all types of collegiate rewards and can play the game.

160s: Mike Wallace who gives you excellent speed and a special teams guy.

184: Bruce Johnson is a depth CB who can cover guys man on man.

190s: Nathan Brown battles for the 3rd Qb job with a likely UDFA.

193: Josh Mauga is a guy who could go to the PUP, Dallas would rather not cut any rookies because of cap hits. Mauga can learn the special teams and potentially help there day 1. Versatile guy with good tackling skills.

210 : Garrett Reynolds is a developmental OT who we should be able to fit on the practice squad. Not as big as we generally like, but has the frame to hold more weight.
 

Bob Sacamano

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not too enthused with taking Delmas to make him a strong-safety

you would improve the mock by taking Ricky Jean-Francois with pick #113
 

5mics

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jterrell;2691825 said:
...the point here is to look at a pool of 5 guys who are rated right about where we are scheduled to pick and select the highest guy based on need and considering earlier draftees.

I am not against taking guys rated a few picks higher than we select but never more than 10 picks because we have plenty of ammo to move up a few slots.

using this list for values...
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings?&start_row=51


51 group:
Ron Brace, NT; Louis Delmas, FS; Duke Robinson, OG; William Moore, SS; Paul Kruger, DE

I'd have to take Delmas. He is ranked 45th which is highest and also fits a position of need.

69 group:
Darry Beckwith, ILB; Kraig Urbik, OG; Herman Johnson, OG; Phil Loadholt, OT; Louis Murphy, WR

I'd grab Beckwith who is the highest rated player and could play passing downs early then become the every down WILB next to James. He is rated the highest of these guys at 63.

97 group:
Dannell Ellerbe, ILB; Lawrence Sidbury, DE/OLB; David Bruton, FS; Mitch King DE/DT; Kevin Ogletree, WR

I'd go with Sidbury here as the depth at OLB is so poor and we really want a raw pass rusher moreso than anything. He is also rated 93rd so again my highest rated guy.

113 group:
Ramses Barden, WR; Scott Mckillop, ILB; Ricky-Jean Francois, DT/DE; Derek Pegues, FS; Jarrett Dillard, WR

I'd have to go with Dillard here. He is the more developed of the two WRs and fills the bill as a slot guy. He isn't super fast but does have great leaping ability and great hands with superb route running.

148 group:
Jasper Brinkley, ILB; Jaime Thomas, OG; Darius Passmore, WR; AQ Shipley, C; Tom Brandstater, QB

Tough call here but I gotta go Shipley. He is over 300 and fits our system pretty well. Wanted to get a QB but may be a tad early to go 3rd QB.

160s group(5th round comp):
Michael Bennett, DE; Mike Wallace, WR; Jason Phillips, ILB; Terrance Taylor, DT/DE; Sammie Lee Hill, NT

Again tough call but I'd have to go with unique speed and Mike Wallace here. Looks a bit like a poor man's Joey Galloway.

184 group:
Bruce Johnson, CB; Lydon Murtha, OT; John Parker Wilson, QB; Ian Campbell DE/OLB; Ian Johnson, RB

Not as much value here but I like Bruce Johnson as a nickel DB so I'll take him. Small and not very strong but a solid cover guy in the slot.

190s group:(6th round comp)
Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB

Got to take that 3rd QB here and get Nathan Brown. Intriguing prospect with measurables similar to Romo.

193 group:
Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB --- Same as above... these picks will be fairly close together.

Let me have Mauga here. Could be a pup guy as a rookie but has decent size and speed. Special teamer is nothing else.

210 group: ---looking ta players in the 225 range here because of comps)
Garrett Reynolds, OT; Domonique Johnson, CB; Deon Butler, WR: Victor Butler, OLB; Brice McCain, CB

Just want this guy to be able to make the team or PS. I like the long term chances for Garrett Reynolds so I'll grab him here as a PS OT.

Anyways this exercise lets you go through and see what various positions seem to have available at each value grouping. It was somewhat intriguing to me.

Pretty cool set-up! Here's what I came up with based on the available choices presented.....

Ron Brace - NT
Phil Loadholt - OT
David Bruton - FS
Ricky-Jean Francois - DE
AQ Shipley - C
Jason Phillips - ILB
Bruce Johnson - CB
Nathan Brown - QB
Quan Cosby - WR
Domonique Johnson - CB
 

Bob Sacamano

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5mics;2691855 said:
Pretty cool set-up! Here's what I came up with based on the available choices presented.....

Ron Brace - NT
Phil Loadholt - OT
David Bruton - FS
Ricky-Jean Francois - DE
AQ Shipley - C
Jason Phillips - ILB
Bruce Johnson - CB
Nathan Brown - QB
Quan Cosby - WR
Domonique Johnson - CB
climb to the top of mount

.:NO:.
 

5mics

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JerryAdvocate;2691865 said:
climb to the top of mount

.:NO:.

:laugh2: I figured you would pick-up on that; he's still my choice though (unless someone drops who I really liked and thought wouldn't be available w/ our first pick like Harvin but that ain't happening).....
 

Common Sense

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I don't understand this notion that Jason Phillips is going to be around on the second day of the draft.
 

Bob Sacamano

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Common Sense;2691994 said:
I don't understand this notion that Jason Phillips is going to be around on the second day of the draft.

he's generally thought to be a 3rd round pick

that is now the 2nd day of the draft :cool:
 

ejthedj

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jterrell;2691825 said:
51 group:
Ron Brace, NT; Louis Delmas, FS; Duke Robinson, OG; William Moore, SS; Paul Kruger, DE

69 group:
Darry Beckwith, ILB; Kraig Urbik, OG; Herman Johnson, OG; Phil Loadholt, OT; Louis Murphy, WR

97 group:
Dannell Ellerbe, ILB; Lawrence Sidbury, DE/OLB; David Bruton, FS; Mitch King DE/DT; Kevin Ogletree, WR

113 group:
Ramses Barden, WR; Scott Mckillop, ILB; Ricky-Jean Francois, DT/DE; Derek Pegues, FS; Jarrett Dillard, WR

148 group:
Jasper Brinkley, ILB; Jaime Thomas, OG; Darius Passmore, WR; AQ Shipley, C; Tom Brandstater, QB

160s group(5th round comp):
Michael Bennett, DE; Mike Wallace, WR; Jason Phillips, ILB; Terrance Taylor, DT/DE; Sammie Lee Hill, NT

184 group:
Bruce Johnson, CB; Lydon Murtha, OT; John Parker Wilson, QB; Ian Campbell DE/OLB; Ian Johnson, RB

190s group:(6th round comp)
Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB

193 group:
Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB --- Same as above... these picks will be fairly close together.

210 group: ---looking ta players in the 225 range here because of comps)
Garrett Reynolds, OT; Domonique Johnson, CB; Deon Butler, WR: Victor Butler, OLB; Brice McCain, CB

Fun game, but these lists are not trustworthy. I think the Rd2 gives you a good 5, but then you should increase by 5 every round (10 for 3, 15 for 4, etc). As the draft goes deeper, these lists get more inaccurate

I am gonna do that with another list. Just giving props to you in advance.

From your list, I pick

51) Delmas--S
69) urbik--G
97) Sidbury--OLB
113) Dillard--WR
148) Jason Phillips ILB
160) Sammie Lee Hill--NT
184) John Parker Wilson--QB
190) --Fitzhugh--OT
193) Maqua--LB

I like this better since Phillips is jsut as good if not better than Beckwith. plus, we get a better G and NT
 

SDogo

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51: OG Duke Robinson

69: ILB Derry Beckwith

97: DE/OLB Lawrence Sidbury

113: FS Derek Pegues

148: OC AQ Shipley

160s: NT Sammie Lee Hill

184: CB Bruce Johnson

190s: OT Cornelius Lewis

193: QB Nathan Brown

210 : WR Deon Butler
 

jterrell

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Common Sense;2691994 said:
I don't understand this notion that Jason Phillips is going to be around on the second day of the draft.

he tore something at the combine and is out 3 months or more.
 

jterrell

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5mics;2691855 said:
Pretty cool set-up! Here's what I came up with based on the available choices presented.....

Ron Brace - NT
Phil Loadholt - OT
David Bruton - FS
Ricky-Jean Francois - DE
AQ Shipley - C
Jason Phillips - ILB
Bruce Johnson - CB
Nathan Brown - QB
Quan Cosby - WR
Domonique Johnson - CB

I like your overall list quite a lot with the exception of Loadholt who looks wayy too stiff for my tastes.
 

jterrell

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MichaelWinicki;2693001 said:
Interesting read JT.

Good thread.

You put some thought into it.

I would not go accusing me of thinking and ruin my rep.
:)

I just thought i would be interesting to see what kind of drafts we could build.

Some interesting possibilities imho.

A couple of these guys drafts I like as much or better than my own.
 

TheCount

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jterrell;2691825 said:
51 group:
Ron Brace, NT; Louis Delmas, FS; Duke Robinson, OG; William Moore, SS; Paul Kruger, DE

69 group:
Darry Beckwith, ILB; Kraig Urbik, OG; Herman Johnson, OG; Phil Loadholt, OT; Louis Murphy, WR

97 group:
Dannell Ellerbe, ILB; Lawrence Sidbury, DE/OLB; David Bruton, FS; Mitch King DE/DT; Kevin Ogletree, WR

113 group:
Ramses Barden, WR; Scott Mckillop, ILB; Ricky-Jean Francois, DT/DE; Derek Pegues, FS; Jarrett Dillard, WR

148 group:
Jasper Brinkley, ILB; Jaime Thomas, OG; Darius Passmore, WR; AQ Shipley, C; Tom Brandstater, QB


160s group(5th round comp):
Michael Bennett, DE; Mike Wallace, WR; Jason Phillips, ILB; Terrance Taylor, DT/DE; Sammie Lee Hill, NT

184 group:
Bruce Johnson, CB; Lydon Murtha, OT; John Parker Wilson, QB; Ian Campbell DE/OLB; Ian Johnson, RB

190s group:(6th round comp)
Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB

My Picks:

William Moore
Herman Johnson
Lawrence Sidbury
Scott Mckillop
AQ Shipley
Mike Wallace
John Parker Wilson
Josh Mauga

Going based on your list, but I'd like to have taken a CB in there and I take Moore over Delmas because we don't need a FS and Hamlin had a mediocre year, but I have zero desire to see him at SS.
 

28 Joker

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I wouldn't take Delmas in round 2. Bunting ranks him at number 69. He runs a 4.52 40 (stood on this number at his pro day), played at a small school, isn't 6-0 tall, has concussion concerns, and just now weighed in at a shade over 200 pounds.

I predict that the Cowboys will not draft him at 51 due to his size/speed ratio and his small school pedigree and concussion concerns.

The Cowboys will only draft small school guys if they are "exceptional".

Example:

DeMarcus Ware
Orlando Scandrick

Delmas' skill set is good but not exceptional.
 

5mics

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jterrell;2692992 said:
I like your overall list quite a lot with the exception of Loadholt who looks wayy too stiff for my tastes.
Thanx; who would you choose between Herman Johnson v.s Loadholt? Love their size for our O-Line BUT..........still, if either one was available w/ our 3rd, it would be very tempting to take 'em.
 

Ceasaleo88

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Picks using your 5 options:
51. Ron Brace, NT; Louis Delmas, FS; Duke Robinson, OG; William Moore, SS; Paul Kruger, DE
I'd take Robinson, best guard in the draft IMO.. Delmas won't be there. Those Senior Bowl stiff comments scare me off Moore.

69. Darry Beckwith, ILB; Kraig Urbik, OG; Herman Johnson, OG; Phil Loadholt, OT; Louis Murphy, WR
Beckwith is the pick. I've already got my lineman for the early part of the draft. He steps right into Burnett's role.

97. Dannell Ellerbe, ILB; Lawrence Sidbury, DE/OLB; David Bruton, FS; Mitch King DE/DT; Kevin Ogletree, WR
Sidbury gives us quality depth at OLB. Not very high on Bruton. DE/WR can be dealt with later on, with about the same talent

113. Ramses Barden, WR; Scott Mckillop, ILB; Ricky-Jean Francois, DT/DE; Derek Pegues, FS; Jarrett Dillard, WR
Pegues, I don't think he's that far behind Delmas, I think he would be considered a value pick here. Passing on WR/DE again

148. Jasper Brinkley, ILB; Jaime Thomas, OG; Darius Passmore, WR; AQ Shipley, C; Tom Brandstater, QB
I would have to go with Shipley. It was toss up between Thomas and Shipley, but because Shipley could probably swing G/C, he's the choice.

160's (comp pick) Michael Bennett, DE; Mike Wallace, WR; Jason Phillips, ILB; Terrance Taylor, DT/DE; Sammie Lee Hill, NT
Finally get a WR and it's one who fits right what we need. Speed, Slot guy, tough, return man. Sammie Lee Hill was a close 2nd.

184. Bruce Johnson, CB; Lydon Murtha, OT; John Parker Wilson, QB; Ian Campbell DE/OLB; Ian Johnson, RB
These r some crappy options, but out of the bunch I would take Bruce Johnson, just because he's from the U

190's (comp pick) Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB
Pick up our developmental QB Nathan Brown

193. Quan Cosby, WR; Nathan Brown, QB; Cornelius Lewis, OT; Keith Fitzhugh, SS; Josh Mauga, ILB
Fitzhugh, he and Pegues can be groomed behind Sensabaugh and Hamlin to take over iin a year or 2

210. Garrett Reynolds, OT; Domonique Johnson, CB; Deon Butler, WR: Victor Butler, OLB; Brice McCain, CB
Taking a chance on Deon Butler


These were my picks in my last mock(without using the CBS Sportsline rankings). Looks like I had a pretty good idea of the guys value.

(Our Draft Position/ CBS Ranking)
2.(51/49) Patrick Chung SS-- 5-11 212 (Oregon) I still think he's our pick here, even with the signing of Sensabaugh and moving Scandrick and/or Ball. I see him being able to play either safety spot.

3.(69/74) Kraig Urbik OG-- 6-5 328 (Wisconsin) I thought we would go after a relatively young FA to push Kosier and provide depth, but we haven't. So we pick this mauler. Wisconsin OL are usually a safe bet to pan out, and he's a good value right here. I think he's the 2nd best OG in this draft.

4a(97/93). Lawrence Sidbury OLB/DE-- 6-3 266 (Richmond) I just don't see Ellis making it to the 2009 regular season. With this pick we have his replacement. Hopefully, he's still here, if not he's worth moving up for IMO.

4b(113/119). Scott McKillop ILB-- 6-1 244 (Pitt) Need someone to throw into the mix at ILB, I'm not sold on Carpenter. This guy reminds me of a young Brookings.

5a(148/167). Mike Wallace WR-- 6-1 199 (Ole Miss) I think Jerry's comments about our young WR's means the position doesn't need a 1st day pick, but we still need someone to return punts and possibly kicks, not sure I want Felix or Austin back there if they are going to have bigger roles in the offense. Someone to battle Stanback for that last WR spot and may be able to develop into a quality pro.

5b(158/172). Sammie Lee Hill DT-- 6-4 329 (Stillman College) With the Olshansky signing, that keeps Ratliff at NT for the most part but we'll need a quality back up, and we might as well make that back up a big body. Solid athlete, will need development

5c(160's comp pick/175). Joe Burnett CB-- 5'10 192 (UCF) If we're moving at least 1 and maybe 2 of our CB's to S, then we're going to need someone to come in for depth. I believe he can also be a hybrid CB/FS type.

6a(184/199). Nathan Brown QB-- 6-1 219 (Central Arkansas) Definitely need to pick up a young QB to develop. A lot of people like Bomar, but this guy seemed to outshine him at the Senior Bowl. May not have the arm Bomar has, but I like his intangibles and athletic ability.

6b(190's comp pick/228). Ramon Foster OT-- 6-5 338 (Tennessee) A developmental tackle to come in and battle for roster spot. Nasty demeanor, and could become a solid pro with work.

7a(193-213/247). Roy Miller DT-- 6-1 310 (Texas) I really want us to pick him up. I think he could be our new Ratliff. Remember Ratliff was also a 7th rounder, with a high motor, but not ideal size.

7b(210-220/220). Reshard Langford-- 6-1 213 (Vanderbilt) A true SS, that can perform on special teams. I don't see us resigning Killa Keith, so we'll need some new blood on the Special Teams if he can make the squad.
 

jterrell

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5mics;2693391 said:
Thanx; who would you choose between Herman Johnson v.s Loadholt? Love their size for our O-Line BUT..........still, if either one was available w/ our 3rd, it would be very tempting to take 'em.

tough call. I'd take either guy in round 3 but perhaps Herman Johnson as the guy with more upside.
 
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