The player I'll be rooting for most

[vaquerofan1]

Two guys, Jason Whitten and Rob Carpenter. I'd like to see Jason have the kind of year that everyone else in the League will have to recognize him as one of the best TE's, and Carpenter because I think he is the type of player we need on the team.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

is chris canty.

greg ellis's sour grapes over his slight position change have just become too much... (he's inviting a trade now, according to the ft. worth star.) i mean, do you know how many players have adjusted to position changes?! on this team alone, you have demarcus ware, marcus coleman, akin ayodele, and several offensive linemen. (and wasn't crayton a qb in college?)

if i remember correctly, ray lewis has had to change defenses, too.

and no, i don't care that ellis was picked #8 overall. roy williams, picked just as high, has had to play a style of defense that doesn't suit him, too, and he has accepted it quietly and done his best to make it work.

besides, changing positions isn't even necessarily a bad thing: matt jones was a first-round pick last year BECAUSE he was changing positions. skipping past hines ward and all the other qbs-turned-wrs, i'll note that the great ronnie lott changed positions as he got older, too. and he kept going to the pro bowl... and the hall of fame.

that's the thing, really: where most people see adversity and hard luck, winners see challenges and opportunities.

...which brings me back to chris canty. the dude was tearing up the college ranks as a senior when, while he was sticking up for a friend, he suffered a terrible eye injury that almost kept him from being drafted. but instead of moaning about "commitment," the kid just came out and played his heart out. and won himself a starting spot.

no, i don't like rooting AGAINST any cowboys players, but i sure will find it very easy to root FOR canty. in fact, i hope he plays so well in that starting position this year that ellis stops making contract demands and starts counting his blessings for being on the team at all.

very well done

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm just gettin' a little exasperated by all the Ellis bashing here lately...

These guys seem to be pissed because they think that Ellis isn't showing any loyalty to the Cowboys, and unwilling to consider that he has been ultra-loyal to the team until the last few months... apparently, they don't feel any need to be loyal to players who have given years of loyal service, so I find myself wondering why they blame Greg for what he's doing...

I think the premise of the original poster's post was that Greg needs to shut up and adjust to change, I dont' think you can argue with that

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm rootin' for Colombo to step up and win that job... I like Petitti, but think he'd be better off at guard, much like Kevin Gogan did...

should we trade a 1st for Kwakou Robinson and making him an OT while we're at it? :

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Never said anything about giving him a pass, but some folks in here are acting like he's a serial sex offender...

c'mon silverbear, if Dallas hasn't acknowledged his request the 1st, 2nd or 3rd time, I think it's time to shut up, this is getting him nowhere, just making him look like a nagging Nancy

"remember BIll, I want to get a bigger contract"

"hey Bill, Greg again, how about that contract?"

"hey Bill...pick up the phone"

"hey BIll, I was in the shower and I thought I heard the phone ring, call me"

"...ah crap *click*

 

[JPostSam]

An NFL player has a finite, limited time to make his money, before he no longer has the game to command a big paycheck... I just can't find it in me to be too angry at somebody who's just trying to ensure that he can maximize his earning potential in that short time... not when the guy isn't holding out on the team or anything like that...

All Greg's complaining doesn't mean jack, really... in fact, if he really does hope to be traded, his runnin' off at the mouth is counter-productive, because it's driving down his trade value, making it more unlikely that the Cowboys could receive an offer that gave them a fair return... so it's not a particularly bright move on his part...

But it's really no big deal...

silverbear, the one blowing this out of proportion is you when you make comments like the serial sex offender thing. i didn't say that dallas should cut him, or fine him, or anything like that. and i didn't say he was a bad guy. all i said was that i'm losing some respect for the player, and instead of making me root for him to be proven right in his fears (which, after all, would mean poor results for the team), i'm now hoping to see ellis's replacement as a starter (canty) play so well that ellis realizes he is no longer the big dog who can make demands.

it doesn't bother me that he has voiced his concern. i don't think he should sit in the corner with a muzzle on or anything like that. and i can appreciate when a guy says, "i love this organization, and i respect what the coach is doing, but i don't think it's for me." it's just that he has to decide whether he believes that so strongly that he is willing to refuse to be part of it, or whether he can swallow those doubts for long enough to give it a shot.

i agree that, if he does in the end play his heart out on the field, he deserves fans' support. i'm just saying that, for now, i'd prefer to hear a different tune. you know, something like, "it's a big challenge for me to adjust, but i'm going to give it 110% and see what happens."

as summeris funner points out, ellis has made his case, and parcells has said, "no, you'll play a slightly different role, and it'll keep you fresh to make big plays and prevent you from getting worn down as you feared you would; this move will help prolong your career." so for ellis to keep making the same point is just tedious. that's why i said he should demand his release or shut up -- meaning, accept the role and move on.

 

[JPostSam]

Though Ellis has talked about the Cowboys giving him a new deal, I truly think this is more about his role in the defense than financial considerations...

you can't separate the two. if he thinks he'll do poorly and the cowboys will dump him, he thinks he'll get a worse deal from someone else afterward. but he could just as easily think that the cowboys would be happy with him doing what they ask of him, and that they would honor their contract with him -- which, as i have pointed out, already specifies higher pay in the coming years.

I'm guessing you get pissed at any player that rocks the boat

nope. but when a guy says the same thing over and over again, despite the coach's insistence that the player will be fine, it makes him a malcontent.

Emmitt Smith was a REAL troublemaker when it came time to negotiate a new deal, even missing two games at the start of a season...

i didn't like that, either. but the situation was very different. emmitt didn't say he was being robbed or that he wasn't being given the opportunity to play up to his abilities. if i remember correctly, he was negotiating a NEW contract, not trying to get out of an old one. it took a long time for both sides to agree on the numbers. that doesn't qualify as a "REAL troublemaker" at all! again, i didn't like that. but it was very different from the ellis situation.

...and regarding the different standards for ellis and the rest of the players, what i mean is this: you seem to think that a rookie, in ellis's shoes, would have to stay quiet and suffer, because he hasn't "paid his dues," so to speak, and hasn't earned the right to speak up, while ellis has. that, by definition, is inequality.

so, for the umpteenth time, i'll say this: ellis made his point. he should either let it rest, or demand a trade. because he isn't going to be cut during the season, meaning he won't lose any money this season. and if he plays well, he'll only make more money next year -- with the cowboys.

ellis has to decide whether to put everything he has into the role that parcells has chosen for him, or nothing.

...now let's get to training camp already!!!

:laugh1:

 

[silverbear]

should we trade a 1st for Kwakou Robinson and making him an OT while we're at it? :

Haw Kwakou even signed anywhere??

You talk like no borderline defensive lineman has ever benefitted from a switch to the offensive side of the ball...

As for your rolling your eyes at my suggestion that Petitti could make a fine, Kevin Gogan-esque guard, exactly what part of that suggestion do you find dubious?? To me, they look to have much the same kind of skillset, and inside at guard, Petitti wouldn't have the problem with speed rushers...

Mind you, I'm not saying that Rob can't develop into a serviceable tackle, I like the guy... I just think he'd make a TERRIFIC guard...

 

[silverbear]

c'mon silverbear, if Dallas hasn't acknowledged his request the 1st, 2nd or 3rd time, I think it's time to shut up, this is getting him nowhere, just making him look like a nagging Nancy

"remember BIll, I want to get a bigger contract"

"hey Bill, Greg again, how about that contract?"

"hey Bill...pick up the phone"

"hey BIll, I was in the shower and I thought I heard the phone ring, call me"

"...ah crap *click*

My whole point is who gives a rat's patootie if Ellis is squawking, so long as he shows up and plays??

I know I don't...

 

[silverbear]

silverbear, the one blowing this out of proportion is you when you make comments like the serial sex offender thing.

A little hyperbole, to make a point... that point being that some of y'all are overreacting badly to this whole "crisis"...

i didn't say that dallas should cut him, or fine him, or anything like that.

Did I say you said any such thing?? In fact, I haven't seen anybody say that...

and i didn't say he was a bad guy.

The way you talked about him in that first post, it's clear you don't think he's a GOOD guy... it's clear you're pissed at him...

all i said was that i'm losing some respect for the player, and instead of making me root for him to be proven right in his fears (which, after all, would mean poor results for the team), i'm now hoping to see ellis's replacement as a starter (canty) play so well that ellis realizes he is no longer the big dog who can make demands.

Oh, you think Canty playing well would make Ellis behave and make nice?? Somehow, I doubt it; if Canty plays well, that would mean even less playing time for Greg, which would make him even more happy, even more anxious to find another place to play...

and i can appreciate when a guy says, "i love this organization, and i respect what the coach is doing, but i don't think it's for me." it's just that he has to decide whether he believes that so strongly that he is willing to refuse to be part of it,

Wow, I don't remember him refusing to be part of it... perhaps you could show me the quotes to that effect??

See, you're capable of a little hyperbole for effect your own self...

i agree that, if he does in the end play his heart out on the field, he deserves fans' support. i'm just saying that, for now, i'd prefer to hear a different tune. you know, something like, "it's a big challenge for me to adjust, but i'm going to give it 110% and see what happens."

I'd like to hear that too, but I'm not gonna get upset if I don't... I just don't see this as any big deal... more to the point, I don't think the Cowboys are overly bothered by it, either...

as summeris funner points out, ellis has made his case, and parcells has said, "no, you'll play a slightly different role, and it'll keep you fresh to make big plays and prevent you from getting worn down as you feared you would; this move will help prolong your career." so for ellis to keep making the same point is just tedious.

Yeah, I'll agree with you on that... but it doesn't merit the firestorm of criticism he's come in for from the fans on assorted message boards...

I'm not saying Ellis is right, far from it... I'm just saying that we shouldn't be metaphorically tearing him a new anal orifice because he's a bit upset, and giving voice to his displeasure, because ultimately, all his woofin' don't mean jack...

Another point just occurred to me as I was typing this-- a lot of the people who are so outraged at the way Ellis is behaving these days are people who were quite happy when the Cowboys signed Terrell Owens... now, maybe you're not one of them, but if you are, I'd like to ask you why is Ellis' moaning and whining so unacceptable to you, yet you're willing to sit still for bringing in a guy who did FAR worse last year when he was unhappy??

If you're not one of the TO backers, I'll pose that question to anybody who fits my indictment... to me, backing TO while rippin' on Ellis is downright hypocritical, because Ellis has never been anywhere NEAR the "cancer" that Owens has been in the course of his career...

 

[silverbear]

nope. but when a guy says the same thing over and over again, despite the coach's insistence that the player will be fine, it makes him a malcontent.

Oh, there's no doubt about it, he IS a malcontent right now... but you don't seem to be willing to even contemplate the possibility that he might have a legitimate beef...

And really, his complaining is no BFD (Big Flippin' Deal, to keep it PG)...

i didn't like that, either. but the situation was very different. emmitt didn't say he was being robbed or that he wasn't being given the opportunity to play up to his abilities. if i remember correctly, he was negotiating a NEW contract, not trying to get out of an old one. it took a long time for both sides to agree on the numbers. that doesn't qualify as a "REAL troublemaker" at all!

That's putting himself ahead of the team (if you remember back that far, the Boys went 0-2 prior to his finally signing)... exactly as you say Ellis is doing now...

...and regarding the different standards for ellis and the rest of the players, what i mean is this: you seem to think that a rookie, in ellis's shoes, would have to stay quiet and suffer, because he hasn't "paid his dues," so to speak, and hasn't earned the right to speak up, while ellis has. that, by definition, is inequality.

It is, but it's also reality... there isn't a coach out there who won't let a proven producer get away with a bit more attitude than a rookie... Jimmy Johnson was quite candid about how he'd let his playmakers get away with more than his fringe ballplayers...

so, for the umpteenth time, i'll say this: ellis made his point. he should either let it rest,

I personally haven't heard a thing from him since minicamp, have you?? In fact, even during minicamp he begged off on doing interviews until the last day... seems like he wants to get this thing out of the public eye, too...

or demand a trade.

He's REQUESTED that the Cowboys look into trading him... I'd think you'd find that more acceptable than "demanding" that they do so... that would make him more of a troublemaker, IMO...

 

[JPostSam]

Another point just occurred to me as I was typing this-- a lot of the people who are so outraged at the way Ellis is behaving these days are people who were quite happy when the Cowboys signed Terrell Owens... now, maybe you're not one of them, but if you are, I'd like to ask you why is Ellis' moaning and whining so unacceptable to you, yet you're willing to sit still for bringing in a guy who did FAR worse last year when he was unhappy??

If you're not one of the TO backers, I'll pose that question to anybody who fits my indictment... to me, backing TO while rippin' on Ellis is downright hypocritical, because Ellis has never been anywhere NEAR the "cancer" that Owens has been in the course of his career...

actually, silverbear, i REALLY didn't want us to sign TO; i don't like what he represents as a person. i mean, he's not a criminal or anything like that, but his actions on and off the field aren't the kind of things that i want to be associated with as a cowboys fan.

now that he is a part of my favorite team, though, i am hoping that he plays very well and behaves himself for as long as it takes to find and/or groom some young wide receiver talent.

and before you ask, no i don't think there's any comparison between terrell owens and greg ellis. in fact -- to wind this down and let this thread die -- i think that the ellis thing will die down IF: the cowboys win, and ellis makes enough plays to feel like a part of that success.

 

[silverbear]

actually, silverbear, i REALLY didn't want us to sign TO; i don't like what he represents as a person. i mean, he's not a criminal or anything like that, but his actions on and off the field aren't the kind of things that i want to be associated with as a cowboys fan.

now that he is a part of my favorite team, though, i am hoping that he plays very well and behaves himself for as long as it takes to find and/or groom some young wide receiver talent.

and before you ask, no i don't think there's any comparison between terrell owens and greg ellis. in fact -- to wind this down and let this thread die -- i think that the ellis thing will die down IF: the cowboys win, and ellis makes enough plays to feel like a part of that success.

OK, we seem to be in complete agreement on this point... like I said, I had no idea if you were one of the TO supporters or not...

 

[5Stars]

CALL DENVER and ship Ellis outta here! Kick him to the curb! If he don't want to be here? poof! be gone sucker!

Ship him off on the next train...let him see if the grass is greener out there.

The Boyz need players that want a ring...not a player that has more money then he can spend already!

Put Ellis on the first Dog (Greyhound) outta here...then let the chips fall where they fall...

Problem solved....