CFZ The purpose and structure of training camps has dramatically changed last 5-10 years

[817Gill]

Pay them 3 times as much, expect half the commitment and performance.

American sports today, millennial style.

Half the commitment? These guys train hard year round and have more coaching and training than ever before.

In terms of pure time spent on their bodies and craft this generation of athletes takes the cake. Obviously some of that has to do with external factors but one thing that can’t be disputed is how much more specialized and year-round professional sports have become.

Heck some of these guys spend millions a year on their bodies and have full-time follow-around trainers and dietitians who make sure they are at peak physical condition.

The more money the more importance is put into body maintenance and training.

 

[erod]

Half the commitment? These guys train hard year round and have more coaching and training than ever before.

In terms of pure time spent on their bodies and craft this generation of athletes takes the cake. Obviously some of that has to do with external factors but one thing that can’t be disputed is how much more specialized and year-round professional sports have become.

Heck some of these guys spend millions a year on their bodies and have full-time follow-around trainers and dietitians who make sure they are at peak physical condition.

The more money the more importance is put into body maintenance and training.

They barely touch each other in camp.

Tackling today is beyond pathetic.

Offenses are barely more complicated than college.

Players pull more muscles and tear more ligaments than ever before.

Coaches can't coach the entitled and delicate child-like personalities of today's players.

Winning barely matters. It's about branding and money first always.

 

[CouchCoach]

We are a long way from the training camps like Bryant ran at A&M where he made famous "water is for cowards".

Puking on the field is only for those that had some bad sushi the night before.

TC's used to be hellish and linemen hated them and there was hitting, hitting and more hitting. Yet, I do not think near as many missed games as today's crop of year round footballers.

 

[Diehardblues]

The main difference is in todays era they stay in playing level year round unless they’re nursing a surgery or injury . And there’s mini camps,etc.

Training Camps now are basically just to determine the final 53 man rosters. Or if there’s a new coach to develop new systems . For veterans it’s more of just a personal appearance.

 

[Diehardblues]

They barely touch each other in camp.

Tackling today is beyond pathetic.

Offenses are barely more complicated than college.

Players pull more muscles and tear more ligaments than ever before.

Coaches can't coach the entitled and delicate child-like personalities of today's players.

Winning barely matters. It's about branding and money first always.

Yea, winning generally only effects coaching.

This era the NFL has become sports entertainment at the highest level. These are wealthy celebrity athletic entertainers.

 

[Ranched]

The entire NFL has changed dramatically! Back in the day, players had another job besides playing football to make ends meet. Some of the primadonna's we see today need a bit of that blue collar taste to bring them back down to earth.

 

[817Gill]

They barely touch each other in camp.

Tackling today is beyond pathetic.

Offenses are barely more complicated than college.

Players pull more muscles and tear more ligaments than ever before.

Coaches can't coach the entitled and delicate child-like personalities of today's players.

Winning barely matters. It's about branding and money first always.

Not tackling isn’t a dedication thing lol it’s a safety issue. You can ignore everything I said if you want but hiring dietitians and trainers to be with you year round while basically not having an offseason shows ten times more dedication than tackling at camp does.

Players get injured more because they are physical specimens now. You have guys who are 6’3 240 running 4.3’s. Sports has never seen this level of athleticism and human bodies are being pushed more than they ever have before.

Players are more dedicated than ever, they just demand more as well and aren’t just blind company men. Social issues and players rights are fought for more. But I guess that’s not dedication?

Go to 2:20 seconds. He had a whole segment on it but can’t seem to find it:

 

[erod]

Not tackling isn’t a dedication thing lol it’s a safety issue. You can ignore everything I said if you want but hiring dietitians and trainers to be with you year round while basically not having an offseason shows ten times more dedication than tackling at camp does.

Players get injured more because they are physical specimens now. You have guys who are 6’3 240 running 4.3’s. Sports has never seen this level of athleticism and human bodies are being pushed more than they ever have before.

Players are more dedicated than ever, they just demand more as well and aren’t just blind company men. Social issues and players rights are fought for more. But I guess that’s not dedication?

Go to 2:20 seconds. He had a whole segment on it but can’t seem to find it:

Laughable. They are not better athletes than the 90s players at all. In fact, they're less so, and they do not understand the game to near the level that they used to.

The '93 Cowboys, 49ers, Bills, or Packers would walk through this league with ease.

 

[817Gill]

Laughable. They are not better athletes than the 90s players at all. In fact, they're less so, and they do not understand the game to near the level that they used to.

The '93 Cowboys, 49ers, Bills, or Packers would walk through this league with ease.

Lmaoooooo.

Bigger faster and stronger equals better athletes. Not even arguable. You can say tougher but these things are measured man, it’s data and numbers that measure athleticism and everyone of those categories has skyrocketed.

Kids start specialized training at an extremely young age and get on diets and weight plans as pop Warner players. This isn’t even close man. The emphasis on body development is more than its ever been easily.

Straight from the league itself:

“As players progress from high school through the pros, they’re increasingly supported, coached and counseled by trainers, nutritionists and medical staff that prepare them for peak performance on gameday and help them recover from injury. Their training and preparation often continues through the offseason.

NFL players are professionals in every sense of the word, well-paid and well-trained students of the game whose lives revolve around football.”

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legends/evolution-of-the-nfl-player/

Best line in the article:

“NFL Players at most positions are bigger and stronger than their predecessors,”

Any more hearsay and memories or do you have actual data and literature to back it up?

I could go all day man


https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-player-size-over-time-2014-7?amp

“The graphic below illustrates how linemen, in particular, have gotten bigger over the years. The average weight of an NFL offensive lineman has increased from 215 pounds in 1936 to a whopping 310 pounds in 2013. That’s an increase of 44 percent, or .57 pounds per year.”

http://galacticfootballleague.com/nfl-players-keep-getting-bigger/

Honestly astounded someone tried to argue this. Can’t romanticize the past brother. They were rougher and more tough sure, but height weight speed measurements can’t be fudged. These guys are just bigger faster and stronger today.

 

[75boyz]

Lmaoooooo.

Bigger faster and stronger equals better athletes. Not even arguable. You can say tougher but these things are measured man, it’s data and numbers that measure athleticism and everyone of those categories has skyrocketed.

Kids start specialized training at an extremely young age and get on diets and weight plans as pop Warner players. This isn’t even close man. The emphasis on body development is more than its ever been easily.

Straight from the league itself:

“As players progress from high school through the pros, they’re increasingly supported, coached and counseled by trainers, nutritionists and medical staff that prepare them for peak performance on gameday and help them recover from injury. Their training and preparation often continues through the offseason.

NFL players are professionals in every sense of the word, well-paid and well-trained students of the game whose lives revolve around football.”

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legends/evolution-of-the-nfl-player/

Best line in the article:

“NFL Players at most positions are bigger and stronger than their predecessors,”

Any more hearsay and memories or do you have actual data and literature to back it up?

I could go all day man


https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-player-size-over-time-2014-7?amp

“The graphic below illustrates how linemen, in particular, have gotten bigger over the years. The average weight of an NFL offensive lineman has increased from 215 pounds in 1936 to a whopping 310 pounds in 2013. That’s an increase of 44 percent, or .57 pounds per year.”

http://galacticfootballleague.com/nfl-players-keep-getting-bigger/

Honestly astounded someone tried to argue this. Can’t romanticize the past brother. They were rougher and more tough sure, but height weight speed measurements can’t be fudged. These guys are just bigger faster and stronger today.

As a general rule overall the science and empirical data seem to support your claim.

I can't speak for the other teams erod mentioned as my memory is a little fuzzy these days but in the trenches the 93 oline/dline compares favorably or is superior to today's 2022 model.

That's taking into account players like Erik Williams and Nate both having the size/weight type physical superiority you're supporting. Again Step was light in the *** but had the whole leverage/quickness thing down to a science. And I'm not saying I disagree as a whole again, I just think erod's mention of the '93 Cowboys may be an outlier to your data.
That squad wasn't small and slow.

Just my opinion and again I agree with your overall premise.
The 93 Dallas squad may be an outlier to your data.

I can't speak for erod's mention of the Bills, 9ers, or Pack as my familiarity with their rosters from back then is less than my knowledge of Dallas's.

I guess a player for player roster comparison of those teams would be more telling.

Just my opinion.

 

[john van brocklin]

Some of us old timers remember the days of training camp at Thousand Oaks, Ca. Remember “The Landry Mile” conditioning run? Many will also remember those two a days in pads in Austin at St. Ed’s in the 100 degree heat under Jimmy. Or the scorchers in Wichita Falls too.

Most of us will remember training camp and preseason games as legit ways to see how well the team is prepared to start the season, what kind of talent we have etc. etc. Times have changed.

Because the modern TC purpose of conditioning, getting used to pads and game conditions as they used to be are long gone. Because of the latest NFL collective bargaining agreement, TC only allows so many padded practices, there’s no hitting the QBs, and pass rushing is very limited. The old blocking sleds are almost obsolete. And when the Cowboys start the preseason game in Denver next weekend, the team will have only had 7 padded practices. Again, times have changed.

These players stay in shape year round for everything except the contact so the way these camps are done is so different than what most of us grew up on.

For that reason, I put very little stock in these practice videos showing 1 on 1 matchups. For one, there is no real pass rush on the QB. Secondly, we don’t always know what they are working on. Sometimes they are actually working on learning new pass routes, blocking schemes, etc. and may not even be attempting any serious pass coverage.

Mike McCarthy made this point at a presser once last year. Someone asked him if he was concerned about DBs getting beat and he said something to the effect of - “Sometimes we are working on things offensively and the defensive coverage isn’t the focus.”

So as we watch videos and practice clips coming out of Oxnard, don’t get too high or too low on anyone. Things aren’t always as they appear in modern NFL training camps. We can get some hints but TC ain’t what it used to be.

Good point.
Really the only thing that matters is how the players play in games.

 

[erod]

Lmaoooooo.

Bigger faster and stronger equals better athletes. Not even arguable. You can say tougher but these things are measured man, it’s data and numbers that measure athleticism and everyone of those categories has skyrocketed.

Kids start specialized training at an extremely young age and get on diets and weight plans as pop Warner players. This isn’t even close man. The emphasis on body development is more than its ever been easily.

Straight from the league itself:

“As players progress from high school through the pros, they’re increasingly supported, coached and counseled by trainers, nutritionists and medical staff that prepare them for peak performance on gameday and help them recover from injury. Their training and preparation often continues through the offseason.

NFL players are professionals in every sense of the word, well-paid and well-trained students of the game whose lives revolve around football.”

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legends/evolution-of-the-nfl-player/

Best line in the article:

“NFL Players at most positions are bigger and stronger than their predecessors,”

Any more hearsay and memories or do you have actual data and literature to back it up?

I could go all day man


https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-player-size-over-time-2014-7?amp

“The graphic below illustrates how linemen, in particular, have gotten bigger over the years. The average weight of an NFL offensive lineman has increased from 215 pounds in 1936 to a whopping 310 pounds in 2013. That’s an increase of 44 percent, or .57 pounds per year.”

http://galacticfootballleague.com/nfl-players-keep-getting-bigger/

Honestly astounded someone tried to argue this. Can’t romanticize the past brother. They were rougher and more tough sure, but height weight speed measurements can’t be fudged. These guys are just bigger faster and stronger today.

You are painfully and ignorantly wrong. The 90s were vastly superior. I'm not talking about the 70s here.

Players today aren't faster than Deion or Metcalf. They're damn sure not stronger than Larry Allen or Reggie White.

Those who actually know football understand this.

The game today is weak, soft, and stupid.

 

[817Gill]

You are painfully and ignorantly wrong. The 90s were vastly superior. I'm not talking about the 70s here.

Players today aren't faster than Deion or Metcalf. They're damn sure not stronger than Larry Allen or Reggie White.

Those who actually know football understand this.

The game today is weak, soft, and stupid.

So more opinions and memories no actual data or articles?

Terrible way to prove a point but be my guest and keep spewing opinion without any attempt to use data. Lol at using the top 1% of 90’s players as a comparison. Obviously those guys are all timers.

 

[817Gill]

As a general rule overall the science and empirical data seem to support your claim.

I can't speak for the other teams erod mentioned as my memory is a little fuzzy these days but in the trenches the 93 oline/dline compares favorably or is superior to today's 2022 model.

That's taking into account players like Erik Williams and Nate both having the size/weight type physical superiority you're supporting. Again Step was light in the *** but had the whole leverage/quickness thing down to a science. And I'm not saying I disagree as a whole again, I just think erod's mention of the '93 Cowboys may be an outlier to your data.
That squad wasn't small and slow.

Just my opinion and again I agree with your overall premise.
The 93 Dallas squad may be an outlier to your data.

I can't speak for erod's mention of the Bills, 9ers, or Pack as my familiarity with their rosters from back then is less than my knowledge of Dallas's.

I guess a player for player roster comparison of those teams would be more telling.

Just my opinion.

Oh yeah I get that, the elite of the elite will always be more comparable across generations. But just the general average player is more athletic these days and that’s without anything genetic. Just purely on the amount of maintenance and time/money spent on their bodies from a young age. It’s just never been that specialized and engrained from youth.

My main issue was the poster claiming these athletes aren’t dedicated, when the amount of time and money and years spent working extremely hard is inherently described as dedication. Older generations had athletes partying their arse off during the season and using camp to get in shape. You show up 10+ over in 1975 you run until you’re back in shape. You do that now and you’re crucified on social media lol. The circumstances of the world and pro sports forces athletes to be dedicated. Fans have almost complete access to your social life and will tell you that you’re a lazy bum.

These kids are running 4.3’s like it’s nothing at 220lbs+ lol. Can’t tell me that was common in the 90’s. I’ve seen these combine numbers evolve from the early 2000’s let alone years prior. I don’t want to discount previous generations of players, but the culture and money around professional sports has created a level of training and limit pushing athletically that is unforseen.

Wonder what’s next lol, 300 ponders running 4.4?

 

[VaqueroTD]

Some of us old timers remember the days of training camp at Thousand Oaks, Ca. Remember “The Landry Mile” conditioning run? Many will also remember those two a days in pads in Austin at St. Ed’s in the 100 degree heat under Jimmy. Or the scorchers in Wichita Falls too.

Most of us will remember training camp and preseason games as legit ways to see how well the team is prepared to start the season, what kind of talent we have etc. etc. Times have changed.

Because the modern TC purpose of conditioning, getting used to pads and game conditions as they used to be are long gone. Because of the latest NFL collective bargaining agreement, TC only allows so many padded practices, there’s no hitting the QBs, and pass rushing is very limited. The old blocking sleds are almost obsolete. And when the Cowboys start the preseason game in Denver next weekend, the team will have only had 7 padded practices. Again, times have changed.

These players stay in shape year round for everything except the contact so the way these camps are done is so different than what most of us grew up on.

For that reason, I put very little stock in these practice videos showing 1 on 1 matchups. For one, there is no real pass rush on the QB. Secondly, we don’t always know what they are working on. Sometimes they are actually working on learning new pass routes, blocking schemes, etc. and may not even be attempting any serious pass coverage.

Mike McCarthy made this point at a presser once last year. Someone asked him if he was concerned about DBs getting beat and he said something to the effect of - “Sometimes we are working on things offensively and the defensive coverage isn’t the focus.”

So as we watch videos and practice clips coming out of Oxnard, don’t get too high or too low on anyone. Things aren’t always as they appear in modern NFL training camps. We can get some hints but TC ain’t what it used to be.

Great points Bob. Really puts it into perspective with those blocking sled comments. Most of us here probably grew up with those being standard practice. And even preseason is shorter now. I don’t think you really know what you have anymore until about halfway through the season. Our Boys started out strong last year but faded fast near that halfway point. I really like how Big Mac checks the media quickly and keeps it level headed. He doesn’t do it like Parcells with a flair for the dramatic and comments like ‘take away the anointing oil’ or ‘don’t eat the cheese’ but he is quick to keep it real and that is what our Boys need with 100 cameras on them at all times and this Hollywood-esque environment Jerry has fostered.

 

[MLB53]

Some of us old timers remember the days of training camp at Thousand Oaks, Ca. Remember “The Landry Mile” conditioning run? Many will also remember those two a days in pads in Austin at St. Ed’s in the 100 degree heat under Jimmy. Or the scorchers in Wichita Falls too.

Most of us will remember training camp and preseason games as legit ways to see how well the team is prepared to start the season, what kind of talent we have etc. etc. Times have changed.

Because the modern TC purpose of conditioning, getting used to pads and game conditions as they used to be are long gone. Because of the latest NFL collective bargaining agreement, TC only allows so many padded practices, there’s no hitting the QBs, and pass rushing is very limited. The old blocking sleds are almost obsolete. And when the Cowboys start the preseason game in Denver next weekend, the team will have only had 7 padded practices. Again, times have changed.

These players stay in shape year round for everything except the contact so the way these camps are done is so different than what most of us grew up on.

For that reason, I put very little stock in these practice videos showing 1 on 1 matchups. For one, there is no real pass rush on the QB. Secondly, we don’t always know what they are working on. Sometimes they are actually working on learning new pass routes, blocking schemes, etc. and may not even be attempting any serious pass coverage.

Mike McCarthy made this point at a presser once last year. Someone asked him if he was concerned about DBs getting beat and he said something to the effect of - “Sometimes we are working on things offensively and the defensive coverage isn’t the focus.”

So as we watch videos and practice clips coming out of Oxnard, don’t get too high or too low on anyone. Things aren’t always as they appear in modern NFL training camps. We can get some hints but TC ain’t what it used to be.

Yes we do remember and DC E.S. yelling and cussing all the way, lol

 

[Big D]

I'll be there. May or may not do a write up. Probably not.