The QB Connection

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Teams paying max contracts to QB's rarely make it to a SB. Our next window won't even open untill late in his next contract so about 6 years or so.

I believe that’s a myth, it all depends on the QB. Of the last 20 Super Bowls, 6-7 were won by guys with upper tier contracts, and another half dozen or more were on the losing end.

QBs with inflated contracts regularly make it

 

[buybuydandavis]

its why i had 0 problem paying this man.
he's gone from a 4th Rd pick to the heartbeat of this team...in only 5yrs.

Also made a huge jump in performance from 2018 to 2019. Guys who work and learn are gold. Especially at QB, where they can physically last a long time.

 

[charron]

I believe that’s a myth, it all depends on the QB. Of the last 20 Super Bowls, 6-7 were won by guys with upper tier contracts, and another half dozen or more were on the losing end.

QBs with inflated contracts regularly make it

Most were either on rookie deals or the later part of their contract where cap inflation gives them more flexibility

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Most were either on rookie deals or the later part of their contract where cap inflation gives them more flexibility

If you’re counting later part of the contract then that directly contradicts your argument Dak puts the Cowboys back 6 years. In the next 2 years Watson gets traded and gets a reworked deal, Lamar gets his deal, Allen gets his deal, Arod gets his next extension, Baker gets his new deal, possibly Wilson gets a new deal if he’s traded....

Inflation will kick in with the new tv contract, and a bunch of QBs will jump him and his deal will look modest. A low cap hit now, and Like you said, a qb on the later part of his deal with Inflation.

 

[Bobhaze]

I think one of the worst negatives applied to the QB position is "Game Manager". At least that's how it is used, seldom as a compliment. He's just a game manager, synonymous with bus driver.

Wasn't Brees a game manager? How about Rodgers? Mannings? Brady? Montana? Aikman? Bradshaw? Starr?

All very good at executing the game plan and implementing and using the weapons. Establishing the connection between QB and player.

One thing Dak Prescott doesn't get enough credit for is his ability to immediately establish the QB connection with his weapons. I watched him at Miss St his last two years and he didn't have weapons, they were a heavy D team and short on skill position players on the O side. But the ones he did have, he really tired to connect with them. But then, he had little choice other than to take off.

Lots of talk early on that his players had to lift him, he wasn't a talent lifter. Is that still the case?

He made an instant connection with Cooper and restarted his career, he made us concerned about losing Gallup and made Lamb a can't miss 1st round pick. And he's had more than his share of drops from his receivers.

Look at the TE's. No one was excited about these players but regardless of whether it was Jarwin or Schultz, they were a factor and Prescott made sure of it.

Kellen Moore loves him some game manager because just like Brady and Brees, he gets all of the weapons involved and engaged. If you've noticed, Cooper has this tendency to drift, just like Irvin did, if he's not involved and Prescott and Moore see this and rectify it. Sometimes I even forget Cooper is on the field and then they get him engaged.

There are few QB's in the NFL that have this ability to establish the connection and some, like Rodgers, reward players with involvement and punish those that drop one of his perfect passes. But not Prescott, he'll come back to a receiver on the next play to keep the connection engaged.

I watched as much Prescott as a QB as anyone here unless they're a diehard bell ringing Bulldog and I can say that I have never seen another QB go from where he was to where he is like this one. Is he top 5? No but he's so much higher than he was coming out of college, he's not the same player. Doesn't even look like the same player. He is a top 10 QB and that's good enough.

We all agree, he needs the talent around him but the key is utilizing that talent as a formidable weapon that the defenses have to respect. It isn't just the weapons that make the Cowboys one of the best offenses in the game, it is the guy managing those weapons on the field. He is beginning to resemble Brady a little in the fact that the announcers are starting to count the receivers he's hit in the Q1 or first half, the greatest single attribute that Brady has owned in his career.

Dalton did a respectable job of filling in but that connection was sorely missing because Dak Prescott is now that QB that lifts the talent around him. He is not the best QB in the game but there is no game manager better at establishing the connection except Brady, and now that Brees has retired.

We have seen a 4th round pick emerge into a field general employing all of his weapons and if you dislike him so much you can't appreciate that aspect of his game, you are truly missing something. He might just be the best Cowboys QB at using his weapons since Staubach.

Great post. I think one key reason a lot of fans here are so “meh” about a QB like Dak is because the perception of what makes a good QB has changed.

In fantasy football, yardage and TDs alone are measurements of “winning”. Many fans are overly impressed with stats and highlight plays. In real football, stats alone aren’t everything. Sure they can measure a lot about a QBs effectiveness, but not all.

Roger Staubach was never a big stats guy, although he had some impressive stats. But he was a leader that made everyone around him aspire to be better. There’s no stat for that. Leadership, guts, passion, commitment are all qualities critical to an effective NFL QB, yet they cannot be programmed into a video game or measured in fantasy football.

One last point- people saying that Dak is somehow less because “he needs talent around him” is such a lame jab in my opinion. We could spend hours talking about the great talent around most great QBs in NFL history. Football is a team sport, much more so than baseball or basketball. It requires the talent and unified cooperative effort of 11 athletes in concert with one another, not just the miraculous athleticism of the guy under center. Find me a SB champion with only a super star QB to carry them- I’ll save us all the time- there isn’t one.

 

[CouchCoach]

I interpret game manger as a QB who’s instructed to run an offense only as it’s written on the page. So when a play has the quick slant receiver as read 1, TE as read 2, RB swing pass as checkdown if the play breaks down, and the other receiver is just supposed to run deep to occupy the safeties.... and then Brett Favre takes the snap and immediately launches it deep before the non-read is even open, that would be the opposite of a game manager.

but they let him do it because they know he knows what he’s doing and he’s wildly successful at reading defenses and going off-play. Dak was definitely a game manager his first year as you don’t let a rookie (especially one filling in for Romo) go off script, but he’s evolved into something beyond that now, particularly last year when he was just slinging it all over the field before he got hurt.

So I would say no, none of those guys you mentioned were game managers, though Starr was close as QB improve back then wasn’t as allowed as it is today

And I think most interpret it that way, a game manager is just a bus driver but I do not see it that way. I considered Aikman a game manager but not Romo. I consider Watson a game manager but not Mahomes. I consider Brady the ultimate game manager because he hit more different receivers in just the first half of games than any other QB I ever saw.

The OC calls the play with the hot receiver, if he's open, the game manger delivers the ball, executing the play. That is Brady to a T. He didn't look for a favorite receiver or try and get more out of the play, if the hot receiver was open.

Many have used game manager as a negative when to me it is the ultimate compliment. Bradshaw and Montana were ultimate game managers.

What the really good ones seem to have in common is not their mind or their arm but the team around them and what would Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman and Brady have been without those defenses. A QB with a D that he can trust is a different cat, Romo and Prescott never had that so they're pressed to make the plays, try and score on every drive, get creative outside the game manager role. QB is the game manager, imo.

 

[charron]

If you’re counting later part of the contract then that directly contradicts your argument Dak puts the Cowboys back 6 years. In the next 2 years Watson gets traded and gets a reworked deal, Lamar gets his deal, Allen gets his deal, Arod gets his next extension, Baker gets his new deal, possibly Wilson gets a new deal if he’s traded....

Inflation will kick in with the new tv contract, and a bunch of QBs will jump him and his deal will look modest. A low cap hit now, and Like you said, a qb on the later part of his deal with Inflation.

no because by the time you reach the last couple of years of a contract you're no longer on a max deal it is typically undervalued at that point because somebody else already beats that deal by much much more. It also depends on how they structure the deal right now dad is at as cheapest point at 22 million but we have no other money to go out get any free agents who can help the team win today we're going to have to rely on rookies making a big impact could happen but it's doubtful. so my point is dak's annual value of 40 million a year won't be that much in 4 years whereas right now it's a lot.

 

[GMO415]

True CC. I was amazed he linked immediately w Coop once we aquired him. Not even Brady the GOAT could do that. It's a rare skill.

 

[blueblood70]

I think one of the worst negatives applied to the QB position is "Game Manager". At least that's how it is used, seldom as a compliment. He's just a game manager, synonymous with bus driver.

Wasn't Brees a game manager? How about Rodgers? Mannings? Brady? Montana? Aikman? Bradshaw? Starr?

All very good at executing the game plan and implementing and using the weapons. Establishing the connection between QB and player.

One thing Dak Prescott doesn't get enough credit for is his ability to immediately establish the QB connection with his weapons. I watched him at Miss St his last two years and he didn't have weapons, they were a heavy D team and short on skill position players on the O side. But the ones he did have, he really tried to connect with them. But then, he had little choice other than to take off.

Lots of talk early on that his players had to lift him, he wasn't a talent lifter. Is that still the case?

He made an instant connection with Cooper and restarted his career, he made us concerned about losing Gallup and made Lamb a can't miss 1st round pick. And he's had more than his share of drops from his receivers.

Look at the TE's. No one was excited about these players but regardless of whether it was Jarwin or Schultz, they were a factor and Prescott made sure of it.

Kellen Moore loves him some game manager because just like Brady and Brees, he gets all of the weapons involved and engaged. If you've noticed, Cooper has this tendency to drift, just like Irvin did, if he's not involved and Prescott and Moore see this and rectify it. Sometimes I even forget Cooper is on the field and then they get him engaged.

There are few QB's in the NFL that have this ability to establish the connection and some, like Rodgers, reward players with involvement and punish those that drop one of his perfect passes. But not Prescott, he'll come back to a receiver on the next play to keep the connection engaged.

I watched as much Prescott as a QB as anyone here unless they're a diehard bell ringing Bulldog and I can say that I have never seen another QB go from where he was to where he is like this one. Is he top 5? No but he's so much higher than he was coming out of college, he's not the same player. Doesn't even look like the same player. He is a top 10 QB and that's good enough.

We all agree, he needs the talent around him but the key is utilizing that talent as a formidable weapon that the defenses have to respect. It isn't just the weapons that make the Cowboys one of the best offenses in the game, it is the guy managing those weapons on the field. He is beginning to resemble Brady a little in the fact that the announcers are starting to count the receivers he's hit in the Q1 or first half, the greatest single attribute that Brady has owned in his career.

Dalton did a respectable job of filling in but that connection was sorely missing because Dak Prescott is now that QB that lifts the talent around him. He is not the best QB in the game but there is no game manager better at establishing the connection except Brady, and now that Brees has retired.

We have seen a 4th round pick emerge into a field general employing all of his weapons and if you dislike him so much you can't appreciate that aspect of his game, you are truly missing something. He might just be the best Cowboys QB at using his weapons since Staubach.

true or not last statement is hogwash...romo elevated every average WR he has and threw to them all even when it was run first offense..Dak got pass happy OC and 3 wrs that are weapons and with that % of pass plays of course he appears to be spreading it around..romo got many wrs PAID that did nothing after they left...

so dak maybe doing well int his area but no way hes better then Romo...sorry i disagree..

but lets take those throws into the EZ in the RZ because completing passes inside the 30s and setting for 3 pot or less is getting old.40mil better be finding the endzone far more..also better beat better defenses more, let the ball go to spot more then waiting for wrs to look open and lastly step up into the pocket before you go sideways so much..

pocket presence his worst asset. He runs sideways and turns his back on the rush into sacks far to much when he should climb the pocket before he moves sideways it will lead to far bigger plays downfield..romo was great at this..

 

[blueblood70]

Also made a huge jump in performance from 2018 to 2019. Guys who work and learn are gold. Especially at QB, where they can physically last a long time.

umm KM changed that by simply ignoring the run game and going full pass happy in 19 =8-8 2020 1-4 lets keep it real his numbers jumped because that what the offense dictated..not say if he hasn't got better but as team we have not, we were far better in 2016-2018 with zeke , the OL, a protected defense with us winning TOP,

 

[Bobhaze]

And I think most interpret it that way, a game manager is just a bus driver but I do not see it that way. I considered Aikman a game manager but not Romo. I consider Watson a game manager but not Mahomes. I consider Brady the ultimate game manager because he hit more different receivers in just the first half of games than any other QB I ever saw.

The OC calls the play with the hot receiver, if he's open, the game manger delivers the ball, executing the play. That is Brady to a T. He didn't look for a favorite receiver or try and get more out of the play, if the hot receiver was open.

Many have used game manager as a negative when to me it is the ultimate compliment. Bradshaw and Montana were ultimate game managers.

What the really good ones seem to have in common is not their mind or their arm but the team around them and what would Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman and Brady have been without those defenses. A QB with a D that he can trust is a different cat, Romo and Prescott never had that so they're pressed to make the plays, try and score on every drive, get creative outside the game manager role. QB is the game manager, imo.

As a former school administrator, I’ve watched tons of high school football over the years. I still remember some really good young Hs QBs that did not do any one thing spectacularly, but they knew how to manage the game- it’s situations and moments and won lots of games.

I’m still amazed at Peyton Manning’s final season. His once great arm was a complete noodle. He couldn’t break a pane of glass with his fastball but he was still brilliant at making plays in key moments, exuding confidence when his teammates needed it. The Broncos won a SB that year mostly because of their defense, but they would not have been there without Manning’s brilliant game management.

I love Pat Mahomes. I’ve seen him play since he was a freshman at Tech. He’s one of the most physically gifted players to play QB. But even as much as I admire him, Idont think he would be a star everywhere. Put him in Philly now and I don’t think he’s as good. Again, no one is a bigger Mahomes fan. But he has been the great beneficiary of being matched with the skill set of Andy Reid and an excellent set of offensive weapons that match his skill set.

Dak Prescott is not a “top 5” QB by normal standard. But he’s good enough to win a SB with if the supporting cast and coaching is there. That’s the part that remains to be seen.

 

[75boyz]

I expect the elite QB talents to individually count towards 2 to 3 victories per year.
I believe Parcells may have said that.
Meaning their individual play at their position, regardless of circumstance and support from defense, special teams, or run support can will their team to victory by their performance alone at times.

Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson and Mahommes. More often than not, I believe they have that ability.
Regardless of aforementioned support, I believe they have the individual talent to overcome shortcomings by their support groups and even elevate back ups.

I do not see this in Prescotts game, I'm an SEC guy as well. I disagree that his pay should not be commensurate with team performance.

He is 9-11 in his last 20 starts. Stats or no stats. McCarthy or Garrett, oline, Zeke or special teams. Pre OR Post Pandemic.

His TD to int ratio against winning teams is atrocious along with his W/L percentage.

I believe his contract was a bad mistake and if the FO doesn't double down on OT protection on draft day this mistake will grow even larger and more obvious.

Usually agree with lots of your posts. Just not this one. Im a believer that the reason the QB gets the big bucks is that he can handle his share of the responsibility for team losses. And that is the LIONS share when it comes to scoring points as he touches every snap.

Agree to disagree.
No worries, just my .02.

 

[CowboyRoy]

While I suspect all that to be true, he needs to show it this year. Expections are high by fans and he needs to deliver.

Running the #1 offense in nfl history and averaging 37 points a game is delivering.

expectations are high? According to some we suck. Signing a big contract doesn’t change anything on the field.