The Shocking Truth

shockandroll;4187836 said:
The Shocking Truth

So here we are, after another heartbreaking loss. Or is it? We've heard from many who are thrilled we were even in the game. They see this as a positive sign because we're almost as good as the Patriots. I'm amazed there was any question. I already knew before the year started we were good enough to play the Patriots and have a good chance. Sunday showed yet again we have the talent to compete with anyone. Sadly, it also confirmed we do not yet have the composure to actually beat them.

We did not play our game on offense, we lost our swagger at times in the game. We appeared to be afraid to make a mistake often times and yet we made them anyway. Correctable, but it's been happing with this offense for a long time, it's a pattern. I think the Pats defense is better than they get credit for, but they are not as good as many that we've faced, they were not better than our offense.

My simplified game analysis? We beat ourselves. Romo's pick was not forced by their D, Choice's fumble was lazy ball handling and Austin's drops were probably the difference in the game. He was open for first downs, the throws were on the money and he dropped them. Some of the penalties were just dumb, I agree with holding if it's your last chance to keep the QB from getting nailed. Some of those holds were sloppy technique and did not even impact the play. Spencer needs to know better than to run into the kicker and the examples go on.

The Pats made mistakes too, but I feel our defense forced them into most of their mistakes. Our offense continues to beat itself. When they're on, their incredible, when they're off, it's just depressing. We all understand a few mistakes will happen, but three games now we've beat ourselves when we were and are clearly the more talented team.

The defense is playing very good, until the end. It's not always because of the offense, the D continues to allow points to be scored late in the game. This has been going on for years and it's not just because of turnovers. They played more than well enough to beat the Pats but the offense did not, I am not trying to be critical of the defense overall. However, I really hope the D can find a way to dig in and close the game stronger than they start it. These 4th quarter scores to tie or lose the lead have to stop.

So final records, playoffs, SB? None of that matters to me right now. What matters is this team needs to learn how to prepare and execute or it won't matter who the players are. We are more talented than the Pats, we deserved to win that game and we failed to take it. Perhaps time will cure this, it's a new oline. But under this same OC, the offense has been shooting itself in the foot in critical situations for a long time. Is it the coach, the players, the system or all of the above? I really do not know.

What I do know is most objective people will say Romo is the next tier of QB down from Brady, Rogers, Rivers and Brees. I'd like to add that right now, other than maybe Ryan, our coaches are the next tier down from Belichick. The defense is the next tier down from the Steelers and Ravens, the special teams is one tier down from elite and our WR's are a few mistakes away from top tier. I don't think I need to say anything about the running game.

The truth is, the entire team is the next tier down from elite right now. We're really close, we're almost as good, but we're not because we don't execute when it counts. The offense keeps making that dumb mistake to kill a drive. The coach keeps making that one questionable call that kills a drive. The D keeps giving up that 4th quarter score to lose the lead.

My example would be when the game was on the line, Brady made a great throw that beat our great coverage and his receivers made great catches when it mattered the most. Conversely, when we had time to drive the nail in the coffin, Romo made a great throw and Austin dropped it when it mattered most. Last game Romo made some bad throws when it mattered most. ST's ran in to the kicker when it mattered most. The D was great until it mattered most the last two games and gave up long 4th quarter scoring drives.

So close to elite, if any of those individual examples had been able to execute, the one example alone may have been enough to win the game. If all of them execute, we easily win the game. And these were unforced mistakes for teh most part, the other team did not create them, we did it to ourselves.

I would assume my tone comes across as negative and depressed, it is. So far, we're almost good enough. I'm dying to actually be good enough. I think we can be and even by the end of this year. But the truth is, we're not right now. The shocking truth is, I'm not sure we can be with Garrett running the offense. I can point back to the Giants playoff loss on questionable preparation, play calling and offensive mistakes. How long have we been struggling in the red zone and with the running game? Can Garrett make the changes needed to correct the ongoing issues with the offense? Red zone, running game and mental mistakes. I hope so but I'm really not convinced.

There are many reasons to be excited for the future of this team and I am. This post is about the state of the team right now based on Sunday's game. For better or worse, that's how I see it as of today.

Excellent Post.

I agree, we are not an elite team and until we start playing our best football in the 4th quarter we are never going to be an elite team.

You cant commit turnovers, penalties, and have questionable play calling when the game is on the line. The elite teams play their best ball in the 4th quarter, not the opposite. Until that changes, we will remain an average team at best.
 
This team is capable of pulling off a big winning streak, but it's probably way to inconsistent and mistake prone to actually do it. Add in the OL problems, especially in the running game, and I just don't see it. We'll probably win 3 or 4 of our next five, but I don't see winning 7 in a row. That having been said, I hope we win em all.
 
shockandroll;4188733 said:
If you think they're on the verge of getting the mental part together, please enlighten me.

I don't think they are. That may take another year or two.

But I think our opponents are susceptible enough that our talent will overcome theirs.

The Bills, who have done a good job, are getting a lot of tape on them. They're not going to be juggernauts when we face them.

The Eagles are another paper tiger. Yeah, it will be tough to go into Philthy and get the win, but we will.

It all starts Sunday against the Rams. And it will.
 
While I agree that we are on the verge of putting this thing together and going on a winning streak, I think the eagles are in a similar spot. They will be the thorn in our side for the rest of the season. The way to beat them is with a great running game in order to keep dog-killer and that explosive offense off the field. Until we establish an above average running game... I am afraid that we are the paper tigers. I have had the opportunity to watch a lot more football this season than in years past, and the one thing that sticks out this year is that teams who can legitimately sell the play-action pass win most of the games. Maybe that is because of the abbreviated pre-season, but it is the key to winning games this year. Our running game is sad, and we will continue to pay the price by winning and losing close games because of it.
 
The Emperor;4191417 said:
I don't think they are. That may take another year or two.

But I think our opponents are susceptible enough that our talent will overcome theirs.

The Bills, who have done a good job, are getting a lot of tape on them. They're not going to be juggernauts when we face them.

The Eagles are another paper tiger. Yeah, it will be tough to go into Philthy and get the win, but we will.

It all starts Sunday against the Rams. And it will.

I agree with you on the short term, I guess I meant long term when we are playing better teams. If I have to reach for hope, I'd find it knowing that our defense is playing great and should get better. Our offense has so many playmakers that they can bumble their way to 30 points and probably make up for a few mistakes.

As you've maybe seen in some of my other recent posts, I actually think Naggy's injury is a blessing in disguise. I think Naggy did great for a rookie but he was not ready to start. Holland will be an upgrade over him right now, imo.

If Dockery is able to come back and secure the LG spot, I could see Holland challenging Kosier to start by years end. As Smith gains experience and can rely less on Kosier's IQ, Holland would give us a lot more push and will not get shoved around the way Kosier is, imo. We could just swap them on short yardage situations too, if Smith and the line need Kosiers brain out there there rest of the time.

This gives me some hope that our run blocking has a good chance to improve over the next few weeks. That gives me hope we can close out a few of these tight games and cut down on the mistakes.

I won't post in other threads about this, I don't want to be the guy who posts it all over the place, but I wanted your opinion on it. What do you think?
 
StarHead69;4191681 said:
While I agree that we are on the verge of putting this thing together and going on a winning streak, I think the eagles are in a similar spot. They will be the thorn in our side for the rest of the season. The way to beat them is with a great running game in order to keep dog-killer and that explosive offense off the field. Until we establish an above average running game... I am afraid that we are the paper tigers. I have had the opportunity to watch a lot more football this season than in years past, and the one thing that sticks out this year is that teams who can legitimately sell the play-action pass win most of the games. Maybe that is because of the abbreviated pre-season, but it is the key to winning games this year. Our running game is sad, and we will continue to pay the price by winning and losing close games because of it.

I agree with you, I think the iggles have a better chance to go on a winning streak then the skins and Giants have of continuing to win. We're the unknown, imo.

What do you think about my response to Emp regarding how getting Dockery and Holland back could help our running game? Especially in short yardage?
 
shockandroll;4187836 said:
The Shocking Truth

So here we are, after another heartbreaking loss. Or is it? We've heard from many who are thrilled we were even in the game. They see this as a positive sign because we're almost as good as the Patriots. I'm amazed there was any question. I already knew before the year started we were good enough to play the Patriots and have a good chance. Sunday showed yet again we have the talent to compete with anyone. Sadly, it also confirmed we do not yet have the composure to actually beat them.

We did not play our game on offense, we lost our swagger at times in the game. We appeared to be afraid to make a mistake often times and yet we made them anyway. Correctable, but it's been happing with this offense for a long time, it's a pattern. I think the Pats defense is better than they get credit for, but they are not as good as many that we've faced, they were not better than our offense.

My simplified game analysis? We beat ourselves. Romo's pick was not forced by their D, Choice's fumble was lazy ball handling and Austin's drops were probably the difference in the game. He was open for first downs, the throws were on the money and he dropped them. Some of the penalties were just dumb, I agree with holding if it's your last chance to keep the QB from getting nailed. Some of those holds were sloppy technique and did not even impact the play. Spencer needs to know better than to run into the kicker and the examples go on.

The Pats made mistakes too, but I feel our defense forced them into most of their mistakes. Our offense continues to beat itself. When they're on, their incredible, when they're off, it's just depressing. We all understand a few mistakes will happen, but three games now we've beat ourselves when we were and are clearly the more talented team.

The defense is playing very good, until the end. It's not always because of the offense, the D continues to allow points to be scored late in the game. This has been going on for years and it's not just because of turnovers. They played more than well enough to beat the Pats but the offense did not, I am not trying to be critical of the defense overall. However, I really hope the D can find a way to dig in and close the game stronger than they start it. These 4th quarter scores to tie or lose the lead have to stop.

So final records, playoffs, SB? None of that matters to me right now. What matters is this team needs to learn how to prepare and execute or it won't matter who the players are. We are more talented than the Pats, we deserved to win that game and we failed to take it. Perhaps time will cure this, it's a new oline. But under this same OC, the offense has been shooting itself in the foot in critical situations for a long time. Is it the coach, the players, the system or all of the above? I really do not know.

What I do know is most objective people will say Romo is the next tier of QB down from Brady, Rogers, Rivers and Brees. I'd like to add that right now, other than maybe Ryan, our coaches are the next tier down from Belichick. The defense is the next tier down from the Steelers and Ravens, the special teams is one tier down from elite and our WR's are a few mistakes away from top tier. I don't think I need to say anything about the running game.

The truth is, the entire team is the next tier down from elite right now. We're really close, we're almost as good, but we're not because we don't execute when it counts. The offense keeps making that dumb mistake to kill a drive. The coach keeps making that one questionable call that kills a drive. The D keeps giving up that 4th quarter score to lose the lead.

My example would be when the game was on the line, Brady made a great throw that beat our great coverage and his receivers made great catches when it mattered the most. Conversely, when we had time to drive the nail in the coffin, Romo made a great throw and Austin dropped it when it mattered most. Last game Romo made some bad throws when it mattered most. ST's ran in to the kicker when it mattered most. The D was great until it mattered most the last two games and gave up long 4th quarter scoring drives.

So close to elite, if any of those individual examples had been able to execute, the one example alone may have been enough to win the game. If all of them execute, we easily win the game. And these were unforced mistakes for teh most part, the other team did not create them, we did it to ourselves.

I would assume my tone comes across as negative and depressed, it is. So far, we're almost good enough. I'm dying to actually be good enough. I think we can be and even by the end of this year. But the truth is, we're not right now. The shocking truth is, I'm not sure we can be with Garrett running the offense. I can point back to the Giants playoff loss on questionable preparation, play calling and offensive mistakes. How long have we been struggling in the red zone and with the running game? Can Garrett make the changes needed to correct the ongoing issues with the offense? Red zone, running game and mental mistakes. I hope so but I'm really not convinced.

There are many reasons to be excited for the future of this team and I am. This post is about the state of the team right now based on Sunday's game. For better or worse, that's how I see it as of today.

the shocking thrust is more simpler, you just made the shocking truth a long winded excuse. we're not as good as we hoped, period the end.
 
ShiningStar;4191738 said:
the shocking thrust is more simpler, you just made the shocking truth a long winded excuse. we're not as good as we hoped, period the end.

Why even comment in the thread?
 
The Emperor;4191825 said:
Why even comment in the thread?

what ya want? a full blown explanation, if you've read or seen the games, everyone can agree on most and disagree on some. we had a shortened offseason to implement a new defensive scheme and didnt get the off work condition athletes need for sports and than we got decimated with injuries. Its been a rough start and some are doubting Jason and some are more level headed and understand the scope of the game.

Im hoping we get it going but im not going to hold my breath, i expect 8-8 and im okay with that. im just not big on HH, Campo, *tho i should be if he turned Ball around* and our running coach and right now our WR coach isnt impressing me.

But what do you want? The team and or the coaches arent that good and we have issues that probably wont be changed this season. I cant change them, you cant change them and complaining at least works. Its a vocal workout.
 
ShiningStar;4191738 said:
the shocking thrust is more simpler, you just made the shocking truth a long winded excuse. we're not as good as we hoped, period the end.

Who's 'we'? You got a mouse in your pocket?

And why poop in someone else's thread just to criticize its length? Jump in and add something to the discussion.
 
Idgit;4191872 said:
Who's 'we'? You got a mouse in your pocket?

And why poop in someone else's thread just to criticize its length? Jump in and add something to the discussion.

i did, guess what, no matter the length still the same answer, we're not as good as we hoped. unless you're thrilled with mediocre, to each their own.
 
ShiningStar;4191945 said:
i did, guess what, no matter the length still the same answer, we're not as good as we hoped. unless you're thrilled with mediocre, to each their own.

Or unless...let's go out on a limb here...we recognize that a season has at least 16 games in it.

And I don't care what you've heard or want to believe: length matters, SS.
 
ShiningStar;4191945 said:
i did, guess what, no matter the length still the same answer, we're not as good as we hoped. unless you're thrilled with mediocre, to each their own.

If it's too long, don't read it and move along. The length is to address areas of concern and discuss them with those interested.

It's much more than "we're not as good as we hoped." A QB playing with broken ribs throwing to back up WR's behind injured and rookie linemen does have an impact on the ability of the offense. You may chose to see that as an excuse but it is actually a reason why they've struggled at times.

My concern, as yours seems to be is if they will correct things as the vets get healthy or if the mistakes will continue. I'd like to think either Dockery or Holland will be an upgrade at LG from Naggy which could greatly improve the play of Costa as well. The combined effect should be a better running game which should ultimately result in a better passing and red zone attack.

This all depends on if they can get past the mental mistakes, and that's where my concern lies. The talent is as good as I'd hoped, the execution has not been.
 
shockandroll;4192177 said:
If it's too long, don't read it and move along. The length is to address areas of concern and discuss them with those interested.

It's much more than "we're not as good as we hoped." A QB playing with broken ribs throwing to back up WR's behind injured and rookie linemen does have an impact on the ability of the offense. You may chose to see that as an excuse but it is actually a reason why they've struggled at times.

My concern, as yours seems to be is if they will correct things as the vets get healthy or if the mistakes will continue. I'd like to think either Dockery or Holland will be an upgrade at LG from Naggy which could greatly improve the play of Costa as well. The combined effect should be a better running game which should ultimately result in a better passing and red zone attack.

This all depends on if they can get past the mental mistakes, and that's where my concern lies. The talent is as good as I'd hoped, the execution has not been.


which boils down to "not as good as we hoped" whether mental or physical, its just not been what the fan base was hoping was there.

we can debate the "this and thats" all day and i guarantee you not everyone will agree and SOME will throw out the "agenda" word, but like it or not 2 kickers and 2 back up qbs, gotta do something with someone, plus the WR not up to par, Tnew hurt, oh noes didnt see taht one coming, Romo getting hurt, didnt see that, god knows what our RB corp is going to look like by the end of the year, and our Oline just cant get it working consitently, still it all boils down to "not as good as we hoped" also works in other languages, same train of thought.
 
ShiningStar;4192183 said:
which boils down to "not as good as we hoped" whether mental or physical, its just not been what the fan base was hoping was there.

we can debate the "this and thats" all day and i guarantee you not everyone will agree and SOME will throw out the "agenda" word, but like it or not 2 kickers and 2 back up qbs, gotta do something with someone, plus the WR not up to par, Tnew hurt, oh noes didnt see taht one coming, Romo getting hurt, didnt see that, god knows what our RB corp is going to look like by the end of the year, and our Oline just cant get it working consitently, still it all boils down to "not as good as we hoped" also works in other languages, same train of thought.

http://img835.*************/img835/9481/6a00d8341bfa1853ef0120a.jpg

Is there anyone else near your computer I can talk too?
 
http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/General%20Gifs/Copyofspeedy_xvid_003.gif​
 
shockandroll;4192214 said:
http://img835.*************/img835/9481/6a00d8341bfa1853ef0120a.jpg

Is there anyone else near your computer I can talk too?

that was good, touche. :bow:
 
This post reminds me of those 5-10 seasons where we lost 10 games each season by less than 7 points.

Heck, we could have gone undefeated.
 
shockandroll;4187836 said:
The Shocking Truth

So here we are, after another heartbreaking loss. Or is it? We've heard from many who are thrilled we were even in the game. They see this as a positive sign because we're almost as good as the Patriots.

Even though the Cowboys lost to NE there's some fans that saw the game as a moral victory because it was close and the Cowboys had the lead until the very end. When fans see a moral victory in a loss to a good team that tells me they must not think that highly of their own team.

If you think your team is capable of competing for a championship there's no moral victories in a loss I don't care how good the opponent was. When you have a young team you can take away a positive from a loss to a real good team but not when you have an older team like the Cowboys who were preseason favorites for the SB last year and have a veteran QB. Just because the Cowboys played a close game with NE doesn't mean they're almost as good as them. On any given Sunday in the NFL even bad teams can play good teams close it happens all the time.

I'm certainly not saying the Cowboys are a bad team but some hopeful optimists here are reading way too much of a positive into the loss to NE. Some took away a positive from the Jets loss because the Cowboys played them tough but they've lost as many games as the Cowboys so far this season. Some fans are so ridiculous they took a positive away from the Detroit loss because the Cowboys had them down by 24 points at the half regardless that the game ended in the biggest collapse in franchise history. :rolleyes:
 

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