The Time Is Now filter

[Diehardblues]

I have high expectations as well.


So if you expect MM to go where the Cowboys haven’t been in decades within 2 years and then turn around and defend JG’s 10yr tenure of why he didn’t - does that mean you really had low expectation of Garrett? Or figured he was never good enough bring a chip here?

My support of Garrett was always misinterpreted. It was based solely on the notion there weren't better alternatives. I always maintained I’d fire him in a NY minute if we’d hire a legit HC.

I enjoyed defending Jason against the Lynch Mob. I liked Jason and everything he represented with his and his families history with the Cowboys. If we were going to be stuck with a Puppet, he was one I could get behind. And did. And not ashamed of it and own it.

 

[Diehardblues]

A part of me would like to see the personnel stay the same just to see if coaching has held us back, but realistically there will be changes. Maybe some of the players weren't put in position to succeed. Of course I know the GM will have to inject himself into the equation for better or worse

If Fat Mikey has immediate success it will speak for itself. If not then this era will continue similarly.

 

[ShiningStar]

My support of Garrett was always misinterpreted. It was based solely on the notion there weren't better alternatives. I always maintained I’d fire him in a NY minute if we’d hire a legit HC.

I enjoyed defending Jason against the Lynch Mob. I liked Jason and everything he represented with his and his families history with the Cowboys. If we were going to be stuck with a Puppet, he was one I could get behind. And did. And not ashamed of it and own it.

at least your honest and stood behind your statement and views

 

[Diehardblues]

Now there's an even dumber comment, I didn't think was even possible.

Apparently, you're not even smart enough to realize what you're saying before you type it.

Hang your empty head.


Or better yet, go follow your never-was head coach on his continuing misadventures in New York and spare us the nonsense posts around here any longer.

This could be one of my most entertaining years on these forums watching Fat Mikeys tenure unfold.

 

[CouchCoach]

Just so you're straight, "they" was Prescott's representatives, throwing out that $40 million number to counter what they felt was the insulting $25 million a year the Cowboys initially offered. If you think the Cowboys did that to "prepare the fanbase", you're entirely wrong.



And sometimes, there are other valuable trains coming from other directions that you can get on board. Never a year with more "trains" available either.



That's exactly the other "trains" I was referring to. Plenty of them this year and Prescott and his reps would be wise to realize that.

Now, saying I am entirely wrong is pretty strong because if you watch carefully, the NFL and teams are well organized in the media release department and often things are floated out there to see the reaction and also to run a little interference for the real announcement coming, brace the fans. Why do you think these suspensions of star players are always leaked? Soften the shock.

I think that 40M figure was out there to position Dak's camp as greedy but also to gauge the reaction. They knew 25 wouldn't fly, they all knew, but they needed a starting point and now a figure of 36M a year has been floated out there by "sources".

stash, look at the effect of floating numbers. Are we not more attuned to accepting that he will be either the highest paid or right at it? Oh, there will be some anger but there will also be acceptance to what the NFL is now, mostly about the money war. At one time, posters here were up in arms about 25M but now, where are we? Had they not floated that number out there, would we be so resigned to what is going to happen?

What we are not privy to is the number crunchers in the league office that project everything for the owners. The Joneses have a good idea of where QB's salaries will be in 2020 and 2021. They don't think in terms of today's money but they gauge tomorrow's money, where will Prescott's contract rank in 2021? And they don't care about these figures thrown around like Wilson's getting 35M a year, he only gets that if the contract comes to fruition. They do not deal in the world of guaranteed money like MLB, which is why you see so many players move.

I can handle being wrong but entirely wrong is so harsh.

 

[McKDaddy]

Just my guess but I don't think Big Mike coming in with "I am not sold on this QB and will need another" gets this deal done in 12 hours.

I think any HC being considered had to come with "I can win with this QB". I don't think the Joneses are blowing smoke with how they feel about Prescott. Just look at his national exposure, no other QB comes close. He's already a media star without accomplishing anything of substance in the playoffs.

The biggest surprise of this season will be the tagging of Prescott. Not that I am not in favor of that and having options but that's not Booger. He goes all in and is willing to take his lumps if he's wrong but if he wants a player to remain a Cowboy, he will be a Cowboy. He had to be coerced into letting Owens and Bryant walk with a double team from his son and HC.

And the fact that Prescott is going for the gold? Some owners wouldn't like that but this one? Loves it. He sees himself in these dealings. After all, he was the one to show the other owners how much they were leaving on the table by not going for the gold. He would rather not pay it as the owner but the gambler and wildcatter in him eats this up.

Agree with your points. Only thing I would offer as consideration is that HC's have become very aware that their fate is tied to the QB. I would suspect that Mike is like most of us, torn as to what Dak's ceiling is. To come in & flat out say he couldn't win with Dak probably wouldn't have gone over very well for the reasons you mention. But, perhaps sharing some concerns about the subject might be enough to give the Jones pause. After all, they either have to commit fully to the HC or the QB (in a case where the HC isn't fully on board). They hired the coach so we will see.

 

[Stash]

Now, saying I am entirely wrong is pretty strong because if you watch carefully, the NFL and teams are well organized in the media release department and often things are floated out there to see the reaction and also to run a little interference for the real announcement coming, brace the fans. Why do you think these suspensions of star players are always leaked? Soften the shock.

I think that 40M figure was out there to position Dak's camp as greedy but also to gauge the reaction. They knew 25 wouldn't fly, they all knew, but they needed a starting point and now a figure of 36M a year has been floated out there by "sources".

stash, look at the effect of floating numbers. Are we not more attuned to accepting that he will be either the highest paid or right at it? Oh, there will be some anger but there will also be acceptance to what the NFL is now, mostly about the money war. At one time, posters here were up in arms about 25M but now, where are we? Had they not floated that number out there, would we be so resigned to what is going to happen?

What we are not privy to is the number crunchers in the league office that project everything for the owners. The Joneses have a good idea of where QB's salaries will be in 2020 and 2021. They don't think in terms of today's money but they gauge tomorrow's money, where will Prescott's contract rank in 2021? And they don't care about these figures thrown around like Wilson's getting 35M a year, he only gets that if the contract comes to fruition. They do not deal in the world of guaranteed money like MLB, which is why you see so many players move.

I can handle being wrong but entirely wrong is so harsh.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be harsh, just strongly disagreeing with your assessment of which side leaked that $40 million number. It wasn't the Cowboys. It was Dak's side.

 

[CouchCoach]

at least your honest and stood behind your statement and views

I will back that up. Greg's stance on Garrett has often been at attack point but many never stopped to see what his position was based on. It wasn't Garrett, it was his boss and his history with that position.

We agreed on one part of that. If not Garrett, then who? What HC could deal with the Joneses? He doesn't believe this one will any better but I see a slight change in Booger's MO. I do not think we know the extent of the pain Booger has endured in letting a part of his family go. I believe him when he said he hadn't talked to anyone else because he was not willing to give up on Garrett. He truly believed he was going to pull this out and give him ammo to extend him.

I also think there's another part of this. I think Booger feels real guilt. I think he believed that Garrett would have been a warm commodity as a HC on the open market if not for this year. This was really the year. They came out of the woodwork to hammer Garrett and even had former players turning against their beloved overpaying owner. The team was 8-8, this was a 0-16 year for Booger and I believe it's had the effect in our favor.

 

[CouchCoach]

Agree with your points. Only thing I would offer as consideration is that HC's have become very aware that their fate is tied to the QB. I would suspect that Mike is like most of us, torn as to what Dak's ceiling is. To come in & flat out say he couldn't win with Dak probably wouldn't have gone over very well for the reasons you mention. But, perhaps sharing some concerns about the subject might be enough to give the Jones pause. After all, they either have to commit fully to the HC or the QB (in a case where the HC isn't fully on board). They hired the coach so we will see.

McK, there is also another side to this that some refuse to consider. Maybe Big Mike's not playing a game and believes he can win with Prescott?

What are we comparing Prescott to? Montana, Favre and Rodgers, the QB's he's coached but there is something different between that first QB and the other two, he played within the offense and executed it and they went outside the offense and he has 4 rings and they have 1 each.

What do most HC's want in their QB? Execute and manage the offense and the game. I can guarantee you that Shanahan is a lot happier with his QB than LaFleur is with his. And no one is going to compare the talent of Rodgers and Garoppolo but which QB played like a QB and which one played like a passer?

Russell Wilson is a hell of a lot better at playing QB than passer. He needs to exceute the offense, manage it.

Many seem to think Big Mike is being forced to keep Prescott, what if he actually wants him as his QB? What if that's one of the reasons he wanted this job?

 

[Jake]

I think the Joneses are convinced they have the talent.

The Joneses have convinced themselves of a number of things over the last 20 years, none of which have borne fruit.

 

[ShiningStar]

I will back that up. Greg's stance on Garrett has often been at attack point but many never stopped to see what his position was based on. It wasn't Garrett, it was his boss and his history with that position.

We agreed on one part of that. If not Garrett, then who? What HC could deal with the Joneses? He doesn't believe this one will any better but I see a slight change in Booger's MO. I do not think we know the extent of the pain Booger has endured in letting a part of his family go. I believe him when he said he hadn't talked to anyone else because he was not willing to give up on Garrett. He truly believed he was going to pull this out and give him ammo to extend him.

I also think there's another part of this. I think Booger feels real guilt. I think he believed that Garrett would have been a warm commodity as a HC on the open market if not for this year. This was really the year. They came out of the woodwork to hammer Garrett and even had former players turning against their beloved overpaying owner. The team was 8-8, this was a 0-16 year for Booger and I believe it's had the effect in our favor.

I can respect that, because at least hes not saying "garrett sucks neener neener neener"

 

[ShiningStar]

I will back that up. Greg's stance on Garrett has often been at attack point but many never stopped to see what his position was based on. It wasn't Garrett, it was his boss and his history with that position.

We agreed on one part of that. If not Garrett, then who? What HC could deal with the Joneses? He doesn't believe this one will any better but I see a slight change in Booger's MO. I do not think we know the extent of the pain Booger has endured in letting a part of his family go. I believe him when he said he hadn't talked to anyone else because he was not willing to give up on Garrett. He truly believed he was going to pull this out and give him ammo to extend him.

I also think there's another part of this. I think Booger feels real guilt. I think he believed that Garrett would have been a warm commodity as a HC on the open market if not for this year. This was really the year. They came out of the woodwork to hammer Garrett and even had former players turning against their beloved overpaying owner. The team was 8-8, this was a 0-16 year for Booger and I believe it's had the effect in our favor.

i also agree with your last point as well.

 

[CouchCoach]

The Joneses have convinced themselves of a number of things over the last 20 years, none of which have borne fruit.

True Jake but it's the hand we've been dealt. We either find another table or play this hand out.

I look at us as damned good fans, we have to put up with more than any other fans and we still stick with them. This is like my two Raiders buds when they realized Al was really losing it but at least they knew at one time, he had it.

 

[McKDaddy]

McK, there is also another side to this that some refuse to consider. Maybe Big Mike's not playing a game and believes he can win with Prescott?

What are we comparing Prescott to? Montana, Favre and Rodgers, the QB's he's coached but there is something different between that first QB and the other two, he played within the offense and executed it and they went outside the offense and he has 4 rings and they have 1 each.

What do most HC's want in their QB? Execute and manage the offense and the game. I can guarantee you that Shanahan is a lot happier with his QB than LaFleur is with his. And no one is going to compare the talent of Rodgers and Garoppolo but which QB played like a QB and which one played like a passer?

Russell Wilson is a hell of a lot better at playing QB than passer. He needs to exceute the offense, manage it.

Many seem to think Big Mike is being forced to keep Prescott, what if he actually wants him as his QB? What if that's one of the reasons he wanted this job?

May very well have. Think as things "happen' it will give us insight to the level of buy in he had. As i have said numerous times in discussions about Dak, I think its possible to get deep into the playoffs & maybe to the SB with him. But I would prefer a QB i felt could carry a team when needed to. If I was Mike I would be torn knowing that if I'm wrong about being able to win with him, my HC career may be over.

 

[Doomsay]

I’d be happy with a rebuild but we have a lot of sunk cost (& talent) in the OL & Zeke.

 

[ShiningStar]

May very well have. Think as things "happen' it will give us insight to the level of buy in he had. As i have said numerous times in discussions about Dak, I think its possible to get deep into the playoffs & maybe to the SB with him. But I would prefer a QB i felt could carry a team when needed to. If I was Mike I would be torn knowing that if I'm wrong about being able to win with him, my HC career may be over.

if not for Garrett, i feel Dak and Zekes rookies years, they should have been hoisting the Lombardi, there wasnt a better team at that time.

 

[john van brocklin]

When considering anything the Cowboys will do in this off season, the Time is Now filter should be used because that's what this hire at HC was all about.

Their Own FA's - they will err on the side of keeping the team together because the window is open but it is unknown how long that will be. The dominant feeling the Joneses have is this team has the talent to get it done and underachieved. Talent gets the nod and coaching the blame.

Other Teams FA's - They usually hold back until the second wave; however, they saw some real success from teams that stepped up to pay for the better talent. GB, SF, SEA, all made significant additions and were in the final four. The Cowboys have some space and can create more. They've got to pay to play and they know it.

The QB - They do not want a tagged QB going into this season, they have a new HC and need stability at that position and want to send the message "this is our guy", most importantly from the new HC, considered to be a QB guru. No ?'s about the QB position. They want this behind them and sooner than later and might surprise us with what they're willing to do to get that done.

The Draft - They need players that can play from the get go, no Jaylon Smith or Trysten Hill's here and don't be surprised if they trade up or back up into the 1st round to get multiple starters. They need players to play now.

Big Mike was smart, he did his homework, studied the team, and came prepared to sell the Joneses that he could win with these guys with a couple of tweaks here and there. Exactly what the owner wanted to hear. The owner, once the decision was made to move on, made it clear he wanted an experienced NFL HC for one simple reason, the Time Is Now.

So, when we're debating moves they can make, I'd keep pushing everything through that filter. Does this move put them in a better position to win now? Because Now is all that matters.

And while that's a 5 year contract with Big Mike, in the owner's mind, it's a 2 year contract to get this team to at least the NFCCG. That's what the owner needs and wants and that's exactly what the new HC sold him.

Good write up as usual coach!

 

[CouchCoach]

May very well have. Think as things "happen' it will give us insight to the level of buy in he had. As i have said numerous times in discussions about Dak, I think its possible to get deep into the playoffs & maybe to the SB with him. But I would prefer a QB i felt could carry a team when needed to. If I was Mike I would be torn knowing that if I'm wrong about being able to win with him, my HC career may be over.

But on the other side, he takes a chance on a rookie in the draft and he's a Lynch.

I do believe that the "devil you know" is the exact description of Dak Prescott. And I never underestimate the value of a QB that protects the ball against picks like he does. When he had Favre, he had to close his eyes every time he threw into coverage. I know I had him in fantasy and he could lose a game with a pick 6.

The difference in me is I have moved beyond the Dak debate and accepted what will be. It's like the many things we have to accept with this team. So, my usual MO is to try to start seeing the silk purse because I am more about trying to make the best of it. I get really tired of venting about the same old crap.

He's our QB. OK, what else do we need to help him? Well, that HC and keeping his OC is a start.

 

[Diehardblues]

I will back that up. Greg's stance on Garrett has often been at attack point but many never stopped to see what his position was based on. It wasn't Garrett, it was his boss and his history with that position.

We agreed on one part of that. If not Garrett, then who? What HC could deal with the Joneses? He doesn't believe this one will any better but I see a slight change in Booger's MO. I do not think we know the extent of the pain Booger has endured in letting a part of his family go. I believe him when he said he hadn't talked to anyone else because he was not willing to give up on Garrett. He truly believed he was going to pull this out and give him ammo to extend him.

I also think there's another part of this. I think Booger feels real guilt. I think he believed that Garrett would have been a warm commodity as a HC on the open market if not for this year. This was really the year. They came out of the woodwork to hammer Garrett and even had former players turning against their beloved overpaying owner. The team was 8-8, this was a 0-16 year for Booger and I believe it's had the effect in our favor.

Pretty much and thanks but I wouldn’t say I don’t believe Fat Mikey will do any better . I’m just turning up the dial of expectations as it was limited with puppetry coaching.

I am suspect the impact will be as great as we all want. I realize the opportunity should rise now. But Jerry has drained my hope for so long. It’s going to take more than a good hire to revive it overnight. As always the proof will be in the pudding.

I was worried about you for a few days there but this thread is more of the Coach I’ve grown to know, follow and respect the insight over the years.

We have fans who didn’t have much hope with Garrett. I’ve been without hope for a generation going back more than a couple decades.

I see this as a similar hire with Parcells. Public pressure and perception. I’m not sold this is as talented a team as Jerry’s hyped it . And why I’m not as excited. I’m not sold on Dak either. Fat Mikey has his work cut out IMO. And Jerry will be lurking for the first sign of struggles much like he begun losing patience with Bill inserting himself eventually running him off before the job was done.

So to answer the call , I’d say yes. I look for some immediate impacts but in the end the talent will need to be as good as touted. I certainly don’t see it as good as most of the playoff teams this year.

But as this thread has correctly assessed it’s not about what we think. It’s about what Jerry thinks and what he’s sold to the public. That’s where the expectations come in.

We finally can raise the Bar with apparently better coaching. Everyone should embrace. I’m just bringing it to the forefront in a fun gesture . And a thread like this calls it out as well . Win Now!!

 

[Diehardblues]

But on the other side, he takes a chance on a rookie in the draft and he's a Lynch.

I do believe that the "devil you know" is the exact description of Dak Prescott. And I never underestimate the value of a QB that protects the ball against picks like he does. When he had Favre, he had to close his eyes every time he threw into coverage. I know I had him in fantasy and he could lose a game with a pick 6.

The difference in me is I have moved beyond the Dak debate and accepted what will be. It's like the many things we have to accept with this team. So, my usual MO is to try to start seeing the silk purse because I am more about trying to make the best of it. I get really tired of venting about the same old crap.

He's our QB. OK, what else do we need to help him? Well, that HC and keeping his OC is a start.

As soon as we extend Dak we can move on for the most part. The fact it’s dangling out there fuels the fire of debate. We all want to think he’s our QB. But officially he’s not yet until the deal gets done.