The Two Greatest Dallas Cowboys of All Time?

[Stautner]

If we're going coaches and players, Tom Landry was good enough to take both spots for himself

If we're talking pure, raw talent, Bob Hayes and Deion Sanders

If we're talking about the most significant players in the eyes of the public, Roger Staubach and Emmitt Smith

If we're talking about the two best football players, Bob Lilly and Larry Allen

I love your choice of Lilly and Allen as the two best football players. People get focused on the "skill positions", but I believe those are great chices.

Not sure about Hayes in terms of raw talent. Raw speed, no doubt, but his hands weren't that special. I would put Dorsett ahead of Hayes because of his combination of talents. Herschel Walker would also be a good one to consider for this category.

 

[Hagman]

Bob Lilly and Roger Staubach

Yep. Mr. Cowboy and Captain America.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Are you talking about Witten being the best or 2nd best TE in Cowboy history or NFL history. He already is at least the 2nd best in Cowboy history, and in my mind is already the best. If you are talking about in the NFL, he still has a lot of hurdles to climb, including Shannon Sharp and Tony Gonzales.

Nfl. Witten is already top 7.

 

[Stautner]

Nfl. Witten is already top 7.

I think you can make a reasonabl argument for him being Top 10, maybe even top 7 all time right now, although I think the lack of TD's hurts him. Unless I'm not thinking of someone, I can see a good shot at No. 3 all time. Topping Sharpe and Gonzales is going to be a tall order though.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

I think you can make a reasonabl argument for him being Top 10, maybe even top 7 all time right now, although I think the lack of TD's hurts him. Unless I'm not thinking of someone, I can see a good shot at No. 3 all time. Topping Sharpe and Gonzales is going to be a tall order though.

Thats why im making the case witten>ware in rankings of cowboys

Witten is only 28 he has another 7 good years

 

[RS12]

Players = Lilly, Staubach.

Execs and coaches: Schram, Landry, Brandt.

 

[jobberone]

Lilly and Staubach are the two greatest Cowboys ever. It's a hard list to populate since they are so many.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

one player that always gives me fits when making these lists is Deion Sanders.

none of us ever really put him on our lists, and the reasoning being that he "isn't a true Dallas Cowboy".. i mean, as far as talent and greatness goes, he's arguably the greatest defensive back of all-time.. he's an all-time Top 20 player in the NFL at any position at the least.. so it comes down to whether we consider him a Cowboy..

well, consider these things:

1. He spent exactly 5 years with the Falcons and 5 years with the Cowboys.
2. He made 4 Pro Bowls with Dallas, he made 3 with Atlanta.
3. He made 3 All Pro teams with Dallas, he made 2 with Atlanta.
4. He won 1 Super Bowl with Dallas, he made 0 with Atlanta. And he was a vital and important piece of the 1995 Super Bowl team.
5. He makes his home in Dallas and by all appearances, seems to consider himself a Cowboy more than any other team.
6. It was in Dallas that he became that famous all around threat, with his season of playing WR regularly in 1996.
7. His fame and notoriety shot to the stratosphere in coming to Dallas. He went from superstar to SUPERSTAR.

So why do all of us (myself included) not list him in our "greatest Cowboys ever" list? I think it's because, even though he is an all-time talent and he may be considered a Cowboy first and foremost, he only played with Dallas for five years. That's a major strike against him. But then, Gale Sayers only really played with the Bears for five years, and they consider him one of their all-time greats. Sayers played 68 total games as a Bear, and Deion played 63 total games as a Cowboy.

In conclusion, I see both sides of the argument and I go back and forth. If you consider him a Cowboy, he has to make these lists. And he considers himself a Cowboy. Should we? I don't know the answer to that.


side note: And seriously, speaking of great Cowboys CB's, why does nobody ever mention Mel Renfro?? He is the forgotten Cowboys legend in my mind.

 

[Stautner]

Thats why im making the case witten>ware in rankings of cowboys

Witten is only 28 he has another 7 good years

I agree with you.

Honestly I'm not sure you can make a certain case that Ware is even the best pass rusher the Cowboys have had. I would put Harvey Martin a head of him. Barring injury, however, Ware is likely to have a better career because he is pretty certain to lead a cleaner live and stay more focused on football.

 

[sonnyboy]

I think it's reasonable to think Ware has a good shot at top 10, but it's pretty premature to talk about top 5. Between Staubach, Lilly, White, Dorsett, Emmitt, Larry Allen, Aikman, Irvin, Renfro etc. he has a lot of prominant bodies to step over along the way.

To me it's kind of like talking about a young player and the Hall of Fame. It's reasonable to look at a young player and regonize that he has the kind of talent that could potentially lead to the HOF someday, but you can't really start talking seriously about it until has played and performed long enough that his credentials are getting near HOF levels.

Thanks for the response. I did say I think he'll be top 5. Not there yet, but he's on his way.

 

[sonnyboy]

I think you got those rankings wrong..

namely the Ware and Witten ones, Witten is going to down as either the best or second best TE of all time, saying that about Ware is premature. Witten is probably going to go down as the better football player of the two.

This goes back to my original point of are you ranking the player at what he does or overall impact?

I choose to go the route of ranking the players as how well they did what they do. But the overall impact is hard to shut out.

With that said, I think Ware has proven to be a better OLB than Witten is a TE. And of course his overall impact is obvious.
Bottom line is Ware has been a defensive MVP candidate. And in more than one season, clearly the best edge rusher in football. Witten has been one of the best TEs of his time. But I can't think of even one sason he was clearly considered the best.

 

[YosemiteSam]

You need another day for Drew Pearson and Randy White. Maybe another for Lee Roy Jordan and Cliff Harris. And what about Larry Allen?

Maybe you should have a 2 week rotation.

I'm sure even then I would leave someone out! :laugh2:

 

[sonnyboy]

one player that always gives me fits when making these lists is Deion Sanders.

none of us ever really put him on our lists, and the reasoning being that he "isn't a true Dallas Cowboy".. i mean, as far as talent and greatness goes, he's arguably the greatest defensive back of all-time.. he's an all-time Top 20 player in the NFL at any position at the least.. so it comes down to whether we consider him a Cowboy..

well, consider these things:

1. He spent exactly 5 years with the Falcons and 5 years with the Cowboys.
2. He made 4 Pro Bowls with Dallas, he made 3 with Atlanta.
3. He made 3 All Pro teams with Dallas, he made 2 with Atlanta.
4. He won 1 Super Bowl with Dallas, he made 0 with Atlanta. And he was a vital and important piece of the 1995 Super Bowl team.
5. He makes his home in Dallas and by all appearances, seems to consider himself a Cowboy more than any other team.
6. It was in Dallas that he became that famous all around threat, with his season of playing WR regularly in 1996.
7. His fame and notoriety shot to the stratosphere in coming to Dallas. He went from superstar to SUPERSTAR.

So why do all of us (myself included) not list him in our "greatest Cowboys ever" list? I think it's because, even though he is an all-time talent and he may be considered a Cowboy first and foremost, he only played with Dallas for five years. That's a major strike against him. But then, Gale Sayers only really played with the Bears for five years, and they consider him one of their all-time greats. Sayers played 68 total games as a Bear, and Deion played 63 total games as a Cowboy.

In conclusion, I see both sides of the argument and I go back and forth. If you consider him a Cowboy, he has to make these lists. And he considers himself a Cowboy. Should we? I don't know the answer to that.


side note: And seriously, speaking of great Cowboys CB's, why does nobody ever mention Mel Renfro?? He is the forgotten Cowboys legend in my mind.

Great post and I took all this into consideration. Deion's a Cowboy. He's not as much a Cowboy as Lilly or Staubach, but he's a Cowboy.

Some don't like him for a few good reasons. But he was a once in 50 years type talent. Cover skills, return ability and of course even played a little offense.

On talent alone, he and Moss are the two best players I've seen play pro football.

 

[sonnyboy]

I agree with you.

Honestly I'm not sure you can make a certain case that Ware is even the best pass rusher the Cowboys have had. I would put Harvey Martin a head of him. Barring injury, however, Ware is likely to have a better career because he is pretty certain to lead a cleaner live and stay more focused on football.

Close, but I think Ware's the better pass rusher. When you factor in his personel life, he jumps up there with Lilly and Staubach.

 

[Stautner]

Close, but I think Ware's the better pass rusher. When you factor in his personel life, he jumps up there with Lilly and Staubach.

A fair argument can be made either way for whether Ware or Martin was the better pass rusher, but at this point Ware is miles away from Lilly and Staubach in Cowboy lore. Hopefully 8-10 years down the road that won't be the case, but that's way too far off to talk about now.

 

[FanSince61]

Bob Lilly
Roger Staubach

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Depends on your ranking criteria. Are we talking best at his position or overall impact on the team. Simple fact is that certain positions don't impact the game nearly as much as others.

By ability to play their position:

Allen
White
Lilly
Sanders
Staubach
Smith
Dorsett
Irvin

Plenty of others but these stand out for certain. All of these were considered at least top 2 or 3 in the league at their position for an extended period.

Two guys who aren't on the list who I thought were great :
Erik Williams
Leon Lett
People forget how dominant these guys were. Best at their positions but didn't do it long enough.

I think we have a few playing now who make the list by the time they retire:
Ware.......Will be top 5
Ratliff......Will be top 20
Witten.....Will be top 20
Romo.......Will be top 20

This goes back to my original point of are you ranking the player at what he does or overall impact?

I choose to go the route of ranking the players as how well they did what they do. But the overall impact is hard to shut out.

With that said, I think Ware has proven to be a better OLB than Witten is a TE. And of course his overall impact is obvious.
Bottom line is Ware has been a defensive MVP candidate. And in more than one season, clearly the best edge rusher in football. Witten has been one of the best TEs of his time. But I can't think of even one sason he was clearly considered the best.

Witten is the best TE of this era, you can't factor in Gates or Clark into the argument, I dub them "Receivers" I factor them into the great receivers of this time. Witten and Gonzalez are the best TEs of this era, and when it is all set and done they will be 1 & 2 in the order of greatest of all time.


Realistically unless Ware somehow becomes even better, which is hard to imagine, he would end around the 6-7 range in pass rushers and thats staying healthy and having a long career until he is around 35 at a high level. Thats alot of ifs, for now and more than likely forever Witten will have the more prestigious football career

 

[EMMITTnROY]

Great post and I took all this into consideration. Deion's a Cowboy. He's not as much a Cowboy as Lilly or Staubach, but he's a Cowboy.

Some don't like him for a few good reasons. But he was a once in 50 years type talent. Cover skills, return ability and of course even played a little offense.

On talent alone, he and Moss are the two best players I've seen play pro football.

thanks for replying and for the kind words..

glad to see that you agree with me here.. at one point when making my Top 10, i had Deion at #5, and then i dropped him out.. so like i said, i'm undecided myself on what to do with him.. he's the only player i can think of like that.. maybe Herschel Walker too..

 

[sonnyboy]

A fair argument can be made either way for whether Ware or Martin was the better pass rusher, but at this point Ware is miles away from Lilly and Staubach in Cowboy lore. Hopefully 8-10 years down the road that won't be the case, but that's way too far off to talk about now.

I agree.
I just love the guy. Such a good team player and family man. Great role model.
Knocking on wood as I type this, but he's probably the last current player I'd expect to have any off the field issue. Now or when he's finished playing. I can't ever see him embarrasing the team or us fans.

 

[john van brocklin]

Smith and Staubach

DING DING DING DING DING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!