The Wade Fade: Can He Get the Cowboys a Win in the Playoffs?

[cowboyjoe]

That right there hits the nail on the head alexander. Special teams and sloppy playing. That comes from lack of hitting and practicing in training camp. That goes back to coaching.

For example after the cardinal game, a sloppy game which was lost to poor offensive line playing and special teams, something good ole wade didnt believe in. He finally woke up this year and got a good special teams coach and drafted players mainly for special teams.

Again, right there is the problem on this team, reports were last year that players didnt want to play on special teams, our ex special teams coach had to beg players to play special teams. Right there is what is wrong with this team, poor coaching and demanding that those players work and play for what they are being paid for. To a degree that goes back to the owner too, letting this attitude dwell on the team.

But back to the Cardinal game, and other games, how in the world can you be a head coach when you give players the monday off after the cowboys played poorly in that game, and what does good ole wade do, he lets the players have that Monday off. Did you ever see Lombardi, Noll, Don Shula, Landry or Jimmy Johnson give players the day off after they played a sloppy game, no way. That right there talks about wade.

Next, take the games in which wade has lost playoff games, always in the last few minutes mostly. Again, that points to the opposing team being more mentally tough and physically tough then your team. We all remember when the media was getting on wade for letting players have extra days off, etc, and wade's response was, im saving their legs. Hogwash!

Wade was working himself, he was taking the day off too. Thats not a good way to run a team.

Its just like bob lily, nate newton and others have said, this team isnt used to being hit, or like the cardianal and rams said, we could tell by the cowboys body language that we could beat them.

Till Wade sees, and i think he finally sees that special teams was killing him and you cant treat most football players like professionals, you have to step on their neck and push them. Like Jimmy Johnson said, if you treat a player like he thinks he is, the player will remain the same, but if you treat a player like what he could become, (in other words push him, make him work, sweat and then demand more from him) then that player will become that great player.

I think wade finally sees that, only time will tell now, Here's to hoping! [/U][/B]
:starspin

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Per his wikipedia entry (I know, not the most accurate), it says this:

I will tell you he was criticized for one of the very things Phillips has been and that is his loyalty to his coordinators. Many people wanted him to "save his job" and fire DC Vic Fangio in Indianapolis before he left.

Phillips did allow Jones to fire Brian Stewart though, so perhaps that is the tonic.

I didn't mean that as a question of fact, but as a question of opinion from the people who think Wade can't win a playoff game. Since Mora seems similar, are you claiming that there was something in his makeup that made him incapable of winning a playoff game?

I guess you are, because the other option is that he was good enough, but some breaks didn't go his way.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If you look at all of the losses, the "luck" appears to be centered around penalties and special teams. The criticisms that have surrounded him for years that he has undisciplined teams and poor special teams. Go figure.

There is a fine line in winning and losing in the postseason. Phillips is a poor man's Marty Schottenheimer, who also was "cursed" with bad luck despite having a lot of regular season success.

As far as "bad luck", I don't believe it in it. Most of the time, you make your own luck or at least the circumstances for it to be a factor.

The Music City Miracle is a case of bad luck. There's still a big debate whether the play is legal or not (although some physicists and engineers *believe* it was a legal lateral). It was really a one in a million play and that's 'bad luck' by my definition. And the refs could have called that an illegal lateral and have it stick after review and then that debate would have continued.

I personally think Wade can win a playoff game in Dallas, but I have never seen Wade winning the Super Bowl with Dallas or any team for that matter. I always saw him as a guy that can bring the team to the playoffs, maybe get a win or two, really develop the 3-4 defense and hopefully turn over the team in good shape with a defense that has the potential to be the best in the league.



YAKUZA

 

[Yakuza Rich]

That right there hits the nail on the head alexander. Special teams and sloppy playing. That comes from lack of hitting and practicing in training camp. That goes back to coaching.

I don't always believe that. It also goes to personnel and the GM who takes those personnel. The Music City Miracle happened under one of the best ever special teams coach's watch, Bruce DeHaven. Wade didn't want to fire DeHaven, but ole man Wilson forced him to do so. Then Wade hired another ST coach that was far worse (name slips my mind) and the Bills lost a lot of key ST personnel and that created a situation for all time bad special teams play. Ole man Wilson wanted him to fire the ST coach again, Wade didn't want to fire another guy especially when the personnel on ST got worse and wound up getting fired over it.

One person that we missed on special teams last year was Jacques Reeves. We could just let McBriar boom them deep and Reeves could sprint down and force the returner to dodge him and that would be enough to let the rest of the coverage unit to bring the guy down. But Reeves was supposedly the worst corner that ever lived and he was signed by the Texans. That's a personnel problem. OTOH, are field goal kicking improved by leaps and bounds under Wade. Parcells, Mr. Special Teams coach had god awful field goal kicking in his era. But we improved the personnel involved with field goal kicking under Wade (Folk and Brad Johnson as a placeholder) and it magically improved.

Does Wade get credit for the field goal kicking?

Of course not. And he doesn't deserve it either.

But it shows in my mind how important it is to have a GM that values ST or a coach that can convince the GM to go after better ST players.

DeCamillis is a step up from Bruce Read, but we should have a massive improvement in ST personnel this year and THAT is what will hopefully see the massive improvement in ST play.



YAKUZA

 

[Alexander]

Again, right there is the problem on this team, reports were last year that players didnt want to play on special teams, our ex special teams coach had to beg players to play special teams. Right there is what is wrong with this team, poor coaching and demanding that those players work and play for what they are being paid for. To a degree that goes back to the owner too, letting this attitude dwell on the team.

I doubt Bruce Read was so bad as he was didn't demand work from his special teams. It was the owner who brought players with this kind of attitude in and allowed it to continue. That's the problem when you have neutered coaching staffs who don't have the final mandate. When you can always ask Daddy, who cares what Uncle Wade, much less Cousin Bruce has to say? When the Bobby Carpenters on your roster are your "special teams aces", what does that say?

But back to the Cardinal game, and other games, how in the world can you be a head coach when you give players the monday off after the cowboys played poorly in that game, and what does good ole wade do, he lets the players have that Monday off. Did you ever see Lombardi, Noll, Don Shula, Landry or Jimmy Johnson give players the day off after they played a sloppy game, no way. That right there talks about wade.

I am sure Phillips isn't the only one to give players time off. But it depends on how that message is sent. Contrast that to Belichick, who often uses time off as a motivator. Do this, you get time off. He'll even do stupid things like team building activities with a lineman catching punts to end a practice. Strange, but it works and New England is a stronger team than we are because of it. Malcontents, mentally-soft players and complainers don't last long there because the coach, owner, players and organization as a whole won't allow it. We do. That comes from leadership and it has to be the same message across the board.

For what I observe, Phillips doesn't waste time with mind games and "treats them like men" and I am sure the players love him for it, especially after Coach Parcells' approach which was the polar opposite. But that's like a teenager liking a new step-parent because they treat them like an adult. The players don't even know what's good for them, nor do they appreciate the big picture.

Phillips will do what he does and it is very plain and straight-forward. Perhaps that is part of his problem. He's too honest. Those players who aren't willing to cut it will take advantage of that.

He thinks they need rest, he gets it for them. I won't fault him for that as he's a better judge if it is necessary, but his technique in conveying the message is obvious and aboveall, easy for the players to figure out, especially those who really just don't care. And that is what we had quite a bit of last year. Players that didn't care and unfortunately, Phillips' approach played right into their hands. It was compounded by the fact I don't believe he had ultimate authority. He couldn't even fine people how he would have liked from the rumors we heard.

Next, take the games in which wade has lost playoff games, always in the last few minutes mostly. Again, that points to the opposing team being more mentally tough and physically tough then your team. We all remember when the media was getting on wade for letting players have extra days off, etc, and wade's response was, im saving their legs. Hogwash!

Again, Phillips approach might work if he was able to dig beyond the surface to motivate. Even Coach Parcells couldn't get these mules over the hump, so what had to change was the attitude. If Jones allows his coaches to have the power of fear, then things might change.

We've got rid of the attitudes. Now the environment will be tested. Phillips still has the odds against him.

 

[Chief]

I doubt Bruce Read was so bad as he was didn't demand work from his special teams. It was the owner who brought players with this kind of attitude in and allowed it to continue. That's the problem when you have neutered coaching staffs who don't have the final mandate. When you can always ask Daddy, who cares what Uncle Wade, much less Cousin Bruce has to say? When the Bobby Carpenters on your roster are your "special teams aces", what does that say?



I am sure Phillips isn't the only one to give players time off. But it depends on how that message is sent. Contrast that to Belichick, who often uses time off as a motivator. Do this, you get time off. He'll even do stupid things like team building activities with a lineman catching punts to end a practice. Strange, but it works and New England is a stronger team than we are because of it. Malcontents, mentally-soft players and complainers don't last long there because the coach, owner, players and organization as a whole won't allow it. We do. That comes from leadership and it has to be the same message across the board.

For what I observe, Phillips doesn't waste time with mind games and "treats them like men" and I am sure the players love him for it, especially after Coach Parcells' approach which was the polar opposite. But that's like a teenager liking a new step-parent because they treat them like an adult. The players don't even know what's good for them, nor do they appreciate the big picture.

Phillips will do what he does and it is very plain and straight-forward. Perhaps that is part of his problem. He's too honest. Those players who aren't willing to cut it will take advantage of that.

He thinks they need rest, he gets it for them. I won't fault him for that as he's a better judge if it is necessary, but his technique in conveying the message is obvious and aboveall, easy for the players to figure out, especially those who really just don't care. And that is what we had quite a bit of last year. Players that didn't care and unfortunately, Phillips' approach played right into their hands. It was compounded by the fact I don't believe he had ultimate authority. He couldn't even fine people how he would have liked from the rumors we heard.



Again, Phillips approach might work if he was able to dig beyond the surface to motivate. Even Coach Parcells couldn't get these mules over the hump, so what had to change was the attitude. If Jones allows his coaches to have the power of fear, then things might change.

We've got rid of the attitudes. Now the environment will be tested. Phillips still has the odds against him.

Great post.

 

[burmafrd]

Its really only in the last two seasons that the talent to excell has been here. Then it comes down to coaching and team chemistry. We seemed to have both in 2007 only to fade late.
last year pretty much the same- we fade late in the season no matter who is the coach. BUT I think that a too soft coach like Wade is more likely to fail.
Of course we have the Jerruh factor too, which has not helped.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Its really only in the last two seasons that the talent to excell has been here. Then it comes down to coaching and team chemistry. We seemed to have both in 2007 only to fade late.
last year pretty much the same- we fade late in the season no matter who is the coach. BUT I think that a too soft coach like Wade is more likely to fail.
Of course we have the Jerruh factor too, which has not helped.

I think a big problem is the QB.

You need a QB that can play effectively, but protects the ball well. Come December everything changes in the NFL. Not just for the Cowboys, but for every team and for whatever reason, turnovers are amplified in importance. We've faded recently with Quincy, Testaverde, Bledsoe and Romo as our QB's. Not exactly the greatest protectors of the football in QB-lore.

I keep hearing 'we don't have to worry about the attitudes anymore' and we still have a QB whose attitude seems to be that protecting the football is not that important to him. And I still haven't forgotten that week 4 game against the Skins where we didn't run the ball and after the game we had the QB and O-Coordinator pointing fingers at each other as to who was responsible for the lack of running the ball.

I think this team goes as far as the quality of play and the quality of coaching from Romo and Garrett.




YAKUZA

 

[Idgit]

If you look at all of the losses, the "luck" appears to be centered around penalties and special teams. The criticisms that have surrounded him for years that he has undisciplined teams and poor special teams. Go figure.

There is a fine line in winning and losing in the postseason. Phillips is a poor man's Marty Schottenheimer, who also was "cursed" with bad luck despite having a lot of regular season success.

As far as "bad luck", I don't believe it in it. Most of the time, you make your own luck or at least the circumstances for it to be a factor.

This I agree with completely. I've been saying all offseason that it was special teams, TO ratio, and the fact that our offense lead the league in penalties that killed us against good teams. When you get into games where your talent is matched evenly, it's who avoids the mistakes that matters, and we don't avoid them well. That's on coaching.

On a side note, I'd be interested in seeing more detail about how our penalties on offense broke down last year. I know we get a lot of early starts from OTs and from Jason Witten, but I'm not clear on where the bulk of the extra flags are coming from or what we might need to change.

It is irrelevant given the circumstances where he took over.

All of his teams were situations where he pretty much had the table set for him at each stop. Reeves, Levy and Parcells are all Hall of Fame coaches who didn't leave him bare cupboards.

Compare that to Coach Landry and Coach Johnson who took over expansion teams or what amounts to one, there is an easy explanation why his winning percentage is better.

This, I don't agree with. Wade deserves the credit for his regular season record. He's strong on in-game defensive adjustments and I don't agree that he had a table set for him at each stop, for that matter. He does more with his talent against regular NFL teams than most coaches. He's not a bumbling fool, he's just not been able to beat good coaches with very good teams when it counted most. He's been close, but for the reasons you point out above, he hasn't been able to get it done.

 

[CowboyMike]

Fascinating that Wade Phillips lost his job in Buffalo because he defended Bruce DeHaven, then Bruce became our special teams coach a few years later under Parcells.

Yet when Wade came in to be our HC, Bruce DeHaven didn't stay. I wonder why?

 

[Alexander]

This I agree with completely. I've been saying all offseason that it was special teams, TO ratio, and the fact that our offense lead the league in penalties that killed us against good teams. When you get into games where your talent is matched evenly, it's who avoids the mistakes that matters, and we don't avoid them well. That's on coaching.

On a side note, I'd be interested in seeing more detail about how our penalties on offense broke down last year. I know we get a lot of early starts from OTs and from Jason Witten, but I'm not clear on where the bulk of the extra flags are coming from or what we might need to change.

If it is a breakdown on offense, eventually that's where Phillips needs to become more of the head coach and diagnose it. That would be the job of the head coach, would it not?

This, I don't agree with. Wade deserves the credit for his regular season record. He's strong on in-game defensive adjustments and I don't agree that he had a table set for him at each stop, for that matter.

If your teams are better when you assume control, then how much credit does he deserve?

I used that part of the argument to compare to those who can look at his regular winning percentage and see he was among the top 30 in NFL history. When I referred to Johnson, Parcells and Landry, he's never had to deal with taking a truly bad team on both sides of the ball and coach them out of the doldrums to emerge with a winning record. He's never had a true rebuilding project.

He might have had a pair of down teams in Denver and Buffalo, but they were one-year blips in comparison to the downtrodden teams Johnson and Parcells had or the expansion club Landry took half a decade to build.
When he took over in Denver, Reeves left him a team that in the previous three years had been to a conference championship and Super Bowl. In Buffalo, they were three years removed from the three year run at the Super Bowl and had appeared in the playoffs two out of the previous four years.

I stand by my statement. He's taken over teams that just needed to be tweaked and his coaching style tends to help when he's taken over after disciplinarians (especially Parcells and Reeves). Eventually, the lack of discipline and accountability eroded away at both teams after the honeymoon wore off. That's why he didn't last in either stop (and he refused to change per the owner's request at both stops). So, he's decided to "change" under Jones. We'll see if this is his turning point. It should not take long to see.

He does more with his talent against regular NFL teams than most coaches. He's not a bumbling fool, he's just not been able to beat good coaches with very good teams when it counted most. He's been close, but for the reasons you point out above, he hasn't been able to get it done.

He is a great defensive mind and no, he's not a bumbling fool as a game day coach.

But, over time, he gets challenged when the overall responsibilities as a head coach and being the figurehead of the franchise catches up to him.

Eventually great teams (playoff winners) are able to transcend the Xs and Os of average NFL play and his team has to reflect the coach. He has to manage the team, the personalities and step forward. Otherwise, he's just a strong coordinator wearing a head coach hat. He's no Lindy Infante or Bud Carson. But he hasn't achieved like others in his tier have and time is running out. It is just a reflection of how he goes about business and I still think he fancies himself a head coach but doesn't quite know what it means. That's because he hasn't been able to find the right formula and balance. His teams reflect that and haven't been able to gel together.

That brings me to the question that can be answered by those good or even great head coaches. They have a program, they have identity. How exactly would one characterize a "Wade Phillips team"? Beyond good defense, is there anything to indicate he's developed himself beyond glorified coordinator status?

Maybe if he wins one finally, he'll turn the corner and be deserving of a reputation that matches his statistical results in the regular season. He's like a QB who throws for 4000 yards and 30 TDs but can't win the important games that take his team to the next level.

He's not a failure as a head coach, no question about that. He might just be that new Mora, Sherman or Schottenheimer. And that's not the end of the world. It just isn't quite Ivy League.

 

[Apollo Creed]

That's the problem when you have neutered coaching staffs who don't have the final mandate.

Stereotypical response - But the tough approach didn't work for Parcells. That laid back approach took us to 13-3!

Maybe they need the Goldie Locks head coach, the one that is justtt righttt.

Or maybe we have severely overestimated a lot of our talent and depth and been caught with our pants down every year around December.

 

[cowboyjoe]

I doubt Bruce Read was so bad as he was didn't demand work from his special teams. It was the owner who brought players with this kind of attitude in and allowed it to continue. That's the problem when you have neutered coaching staffs who don't have the final mandate. When you can always ask Daddy, who cares what Uncle Wade, much less Cousin Bruce has to say? When the Bobby Carpenters on your roster are your "special teams aces", what does that say?

I agree with that alexander, but you can see that jerry jones has given wade more control this year then ever before. It was also parcells whom basically brought those players along with wade with that attitude. The others have been purged, greg ellis, roy williams, tank johnson, tony curtis-whom allowed the player to block mcbrairs punt, T O, pacman, joe burger-whom was suppose to be the main backup for guard and tackle but never really played a down. Some of that was jerry jones fault some not. Was on the coaches too.

I am sure Phillips isn't the only one to give players time off. But it depends on how that message is sent. Contrast that to Belichick, who often uses time off as a motivator. Do this, you get time off. He'll even do stupid things like team building activities with a lineman catching punts to end a practice. Strange, but it works and New England is a stronger team than we are because of it. Malcontents, mentally-soft players and complainers don't last long there because the coach, owner, players and organization as a whole won't allow it. We do. That comes from leadership and it has to be the same message across the board.

Yeah but alexander you missed my whole point, when the patriots lost a game due to bad playing, did the players get a day off, No! Did Landry or Jimmy Johnson ever give the players a day off after a bad sloppy game? No!

Just think about this, when the players arent in camp that day or in valley ranch during the week, like on that monday after a game, who else gets most of that day off? Wade Phillips and the coaches. Are they their teaching the players, going over film, etc, No! So, who else gets that day off or half that day Alexander?

For what I observe, Phillips doesn't waste time with mind games and "treats them like men" and I am sure the players love him for it, especially after Coach Parcells' approach which was the polar opposite. But that's like a teenager liking a new step-parent because they treat them like an adult. The players don't even know what's good for them, nor do they appreciate the big picture. Exactly and the players do know that they dont have to work that extra hard, so why should they work harder when the head coach is going to give them that day off or extra days off?

No one really wants to run that long mile, or do the extra work, but a good head coach sees that this is done. Or else! Now that lays at the footstep of wade and jerry jones, both are guilty for letting it happen. I think that one thing where if you remember Jerry Jones tried to make a clause with dan reeves that he punch in a time clock. Jerry Jones didnt want dan reeves to take extra days off just like the players, he wanted to be sure work was being done. Now to me, on that reeves time clock issue, was done the wrong way.

But I still see issue with wade when he gives players the day off, wade gets extra time off then too. If you remember Parcells when he lost a ball game, he stayed up all that night and way into the morning going over film to see what was wrong. And why the cowboys failed to win. Heck, when Landrys team lost, he sure didnt give them extra days off for losing, he worked them even harder.

Phillips will do what he does and it is very plain and straight-forward. Perhaps that is part of his problem. He's too honest. Those players who aren't willing to cut it will take advantage of that.

Exactly, now and then you will find a great player or player that wants to be the best and works that extra mile, you dont have to motivate that other player, but most of the other players you have to work and push them, stay on top of them, thats what wade hasnt learned yet, or maybe he has, but has taken 3 years with the cowboys for him to learn that. Like Belicheat, saying ok if you win, do this and this, you get the day off or extra time off, and the players would win, but the players here dont win when the game is on the line and you have to win like the baltimore game or the eagle game.
If you remember the press tried to tell wade that the first year he was here, but he wouldnt hear of it, and same thing before the start of last season, the media told him about the special teams. Again, he wouldnt listen. So, I blame that on wade.

So, basically after wade asked a former scout that worked with parcells and knows these dallas cowboy players now, what do you see wrong. The former scout told him, your special teams are awful wade, and have been ever since your start as a head coach, and your sloppy playing and not running barber enough.

What was wades response about felix jones, i dont trust him on special teams, but when austin got hurt and wade had to play felix on kickoffs you saw the results. What was the thing wade said about choice, i dont trust him running etc. But when barber got hurt, and with felix out of the running with injury you saw the results. Just think if wade had played choice some earlier, gotten him some spot duty here and there, the timing with choice and romo would have been better and we might have won that pittsburgh game, etc.
But when the head coach says, I dont trust him, its the head coaches job to get that player ready, but when the head coach gives those players extra days off, then how can a head coach really judge that player.

Thats my whole point, wade is a great defensive coordinator, but as a head coach, he is a good ole boy, and good ole boys dont work out as head coaches. Now, hopefully after listening to the former cowboys scout, hearing what terry bradshaw, jimmy johnson, howie long all said your teams are sloppy and terrrible special teams, then wade finally sees it. You cant be a good ole boy as a head coach. The players either have to fear a head coach or respect him, which i hear the players have neither for wade. Now some of that is on jerry jones, for letting this go on ever since he let Jimmy Johnson go, and no head coach having full control.

But the former head coaches, like parcells, and now wade agreed to that contract to be the head coach, they knew what they were getting into. And they are paid handsomely like over 3 million a year as head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.


He thinks they need rest, he gets it for them. I won't fault him for that as he's a better judge if it is necessary, but his technique in conveying the message is obvious and aboveall, easy for the players to figure out, especially those who really just don't care. And that is what we had quite a bit of last year. Players that didn't care and unfortunately, Phillips' approach played right into their hands. It was compounded by the fact I don't believe he had ultimate authority. He couldn't even fine people how he would have liked from the rumors we heard.

Which goes back to what im saying, you cant treat players like a good ole boy, you have to step on them,. Now some of that authority jerry jones has given back to wade. Look at what players were signed in free agency, brooking, who played for wade, Igor on defensive line, sensabaugh at free safety, whom wade played against in san diego and with campo knowing him as well as the special teams coach. Wade allowed to get to fine players if they are overweight this year.

All of the excuses are gone now, no more T O, no more pacman, greg ellis griping, the only player left on this team with a lack luster work attitude is flozell adams.

So, heres to hoping that wade finally gets it, i have the feeling, that he and garrett knows this is it this year, either get it done or you are out of here.
Remember in more than 3 games last year alexander, wade said, we got out played on defense, offense, special teams and coaching, yes Coaching, Why?

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I guess Jerra is hoping that the third time is the charm.

Wake up, Cowboy fans. Wade is a journeyman. A never-do-well in playoffs. He's way over his head.
He is said to be a defensive genius. Did that help us in December in the last game, against the Eagles?

Jerra will get what he pays for. Unfortunately he has overpaid this Clown Wade phillips.
We won't always have this good cast of players. We need a real coach as soon as is humanly and humanely possible.

 

[Doomsday101]

I guess Jerra is hoping that the third time is the charm.

Wake up, Cowboy fans. Wade is a journeyman. A never-do-well in playoffs. He's way over his head.
He is said to be a defensive genius. Did that help us in December in the last game, against the Eagles?

Jerra will get what he pays for. Unfortunately he has overpaid this Clown Wade phillips.
We won't always have this good cast of players. We need a real coach as soon as is humanly and humanely possible.

Yeah and I was once told that Mac Brown when he went to Texas would never win an NCAA championship and was incapable of it, no one says that any longer. Tom Landry Cowboys were chokers and could not win the big one and fans were calling for his head until he won a championship. No doubt is it easier to be a critic than to win a championship.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Fascinating that Wade Phillips lost his job in Buffalo because he defended Bruce DeHaven, then Bruce became our special teams coach a few years later under Parcells.

Yet when Wade came in to be our HC, Bruce DeHaven didn't stay. I wonder why?

Like David Lee, DeHaven had already left by the time Parcells had finished deciding if he were coming back or not. These guys couldn't wait around anymore and had to find a position before they were all gone.

And on there not being such a thing as bad luck... I know Jimmy said that, and it's a good macho way to think, but there absolutely is such a bad thing as good or bad fortune, at least in the short run.

Finally, I've seen joe post this about the scout or journalist or whoever this is giving Wade advice, and I wonder what the heck he's talking about... But I'm about halfway afraid to ask.

 

[jobberone]

I doubt Bruce Read was so bad as he was didn't demand work from his special teams. It was the owner who brought players with this kind of attitude in and allowed it to continue. That's the problem when you have neutered coaching staffs who don't have the final mandate. When you can always ask Daddy, who cares what Uncle Wade, much less Cousin Bruce has to say? When the Bobby Carpenters on your roster are your "special teams aces", what does that say?

I agree with that alexander, but you can see that jerry jones has given wade more control this year then ever before. It was also parcells whom basically brought those players along with wade with that attitude. The others have been purged, greg ellis, roy williams, tank johnson, tony curtis-whom allowed the player to block mcbrairs punt, T O, pacman, joe burger-whom was suppose to be the main backup for guard and tackle but never really played a down. Some of that was jerry jones fault some not. Was on the coaches too.

I am sure Phillips isn't the only one to give players time off. But it depends on how that message is sent. Contrast that to Belichick, who often uses time off as a motivator. Do this, you get time off. He'll even do stupid things like team building activities with a lineman catching punts to end a practice. Strange, but it works and New England is a stronger team than we are because of it. Malcontents, mentally-soft players and complainers don't last long there because the coach, owner, players and organization as a whole won't allow it. We do. That comes from leadership and it has to be the same message across the board.

Yeah but alexander you missed my whole point, when the patriots lost a game due to bad playing, did the players get a day off, No! Did Landry or Jimmy Johnson ever give the players a day off after a bad sloppy game? No!

Just think about this, when the players arent in camp that day or in valley ranch during the week, like on that monday after a game, who else gets most of that day off? Wade Phillips and the coaches. Are they their teaching the players, going over film, etc, No! So, who else gets that day off or half that day Alexander?

For what I observe, Phillips doesn't waste time with mind games and "treats them like men" and I am sure the players love him for it, especially after Coach Parcells' approach which was the polar opposite. But that's like a teenager liking a new step-parent because they treat them like an adult. The players don't even know what's good for them, nor do they appreciate the big picture. Exactly and the players do know that they dont have to work that extra hard, so why should they work harder when the head coach is going to give them that day off or extra days off?

No one really wants to run that long mile, or do the extra work, but a good head coach sees that this is done. Or else! Now that lays at the footstep of wade and jerry jones, both are guilty for letting it happen. I think that one thing where if you remember Jerry Jones tried to make a clause with dan reeves that he punch in a time clock. Jerry Jones didnt want dan reeves to take extra days off just like the players, he wanted to be sure work was being done. Now to me, on that reeves time clock issue, was done the wrong way.

But I still see issue with wade when he gives players the day off, wade gets extra time off then too. If you remember Parcells when he lost a ball game, he stayed up all that night and way into the morning going over film to see what was wrong. And why the cowboys failed to win. Heck, when Landrys team lost, he sure didnt give them extra days off for losing, he worked them even harder.

Phillips will do what he does and it is very plain and straight-forward. Perhaps that is part of his problem. He's too honest. Those players who aren't willing to cut it will take advantage of that.

Exactly, now and then you will find a great player or player that wants to be the best and works that extra mile, you dont have to motivate that other player, but most of the other players you have to work and push them, stay on top of them, thats what wade hasnt learned yet, or maybe he has, but has taken 3 years with the cowboys for him to learn that. Like Belicheat, saying ok if you win, do this and this, you get the day off or extra time off, and the players would win, but the players here dont win when the game is on the line and you have to win like the baltimore game or the eagle game.
If you remember the press tried to tell wade that the first year he was here, but he wouldnt hear of it, and same thing before the start of last season, the media told him about the special teams. Again, he wouldnt listen. So, I blame that on wade.

So, basically after wade asked a former scout that worked with parcells and knows these dallas cowboy players now, what do you see wrong. The former scout told him, your special teams are awful wade, and have been ever since your start as a head coach, and your sloppy playing and not running barber enough.

What was wades response about felix jones, i dont trust him on special teams, but when austin got hurt and wade had to play felix on kickoffs you saw the results. What was the thing wade said about choice, i dont trust him running etc. But when barber got hurt, and with felix out of the running with injury you saw the results. Just think if wade had played choice some earlier, gotten him some spot duty here and there, the timing with choice and romo would have been better and we might have won that pittsburgh game, etc.
But when the head coach says, I dont trust him, its the head coaches job to get that player ready, but when the head coach gives those players extra days off, then how can a head coach really judge that player.

Thats my whole point, wade is a great defensive coordinator, but as a head coach, he is a good ole boy, and good ole boys dont work out as head coaches. Now, hopefully after listening to the former cowboys scout, hearing what terry bradshaw, jimmy johnson, howie long all said your teams are sloppy and terrrible special teams, then wade finally sees it. You cant be a good ole boy as a head coach. The players either have to fear a head coach or respect him, which i hear the players have neither for wade. Now some of that is on jerry jones, for letting this go on ever since he let Jimmy Johnson go, and no head coach having full control.

But the former head coaches, like parcells, and now wade agreed to that contract to be the head coach, they knew what they were getting into. And they are paid handsomely like over 3 million a year as head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.


He thinks they need rest, he gets it for them. I won't fault him for that as he's a better judge if it is necessary, but his technique in conveying the message is obvious and aboveall, easy for the players to figure out, especially those who really just don't care. And that is what we had quite a bit of last year. Players that didn't care and unfortunately, Phillips' approach played right into their hands. It was compounded by the fact I don't believe he had ultimate authority. He couldn't even fine people how he would have liked from the rumors we heard.

Which goes back to what im saying, you cant treat players like a good ole boy, you have to step on them,. Now some of that authority jerry jones has given back to wade. Look at what players were signed in free agency, brooking, who played for wade, Igor on defensive line, sensabaugh at free safety, whom wade played against in san diego and with campo knowing him as well as the special teams coach. Wade allowed to get to fine players if they are overweight this year.

All of the excuses are gone now, no more T O, no more pacman, greg ellis griping, the only player left on this team with a lack luster work attitude is flozell adams.

So, heres to hoping that wade finally gets it, i have the feeling, that he and garrett knows this is it this year, either get it done or you are out of here.
Remember in more than 3 games last year alexander, wade said, we got out played on defense, offense, special teams and coaching, yes Coaching, Why?

I have no idea who is saying what Joe. And the lines gave me a migraine, too. : . J/K.

Can you do it again with different fonts, italics, colors or something because I'd really like to read it.

 

[Alexander]

Yeah but alexander you missed my whole point, when the patriots lost a game due to bad playing, did the players get a day off, No! Did Landry or Jimmy Johnson ever give the players a day off after a bad sloppy game? No!

Landry and Jimmy Johnson (Belichick also) had control. There was no doubt who was the coach. There was no doubt who the players would ultimately be accountable to. We don't even seem to have a proper chain of command now as it seems we have defensive and offensive branches each functioning independently with a owner/GM in the middle.

Just think about this, when the players arent in camp that day or in valley ranch during the week, like on that monday after a game, who else gets most of that day off? Wade Phillips and the coaches. Are they their teaching the players, going over film, etc, No! So, who else gets that day off or half that day Alexander?

Ask our owner. He's the one who wanted to put Reeves on a timeclock. Perhaps that was his "change".

No one really wants to run that long mile, or do the extra work, but a good head coach sees that this is done. Or else!

In our case, it is "or else what". Pacman Jones could do as he pleased and came right back to work like nothing happened. Who do you believe gave him that empowerment? Hint, it wasn't Wade Phillips.

Now that lays at the footstep of wade and jerry jones, both are guilty for letting it happen.

No, it goes to the ultimate decision maker. And since Jones has made it clear that is him, then that's where you should point your finger.

I think that one thing where if you remember Jerry Jones tried to make a clause with dan reeves that he punch in a time clock. Jerry Jones didnt want dan reeves to take extra days off just like the players, he wanted to be sure work was being done. Now to me, on that reeves time clock issue, was done the wrong way.

I think you are way off base here.

But I still see issue with wade when he gives players the day off, wade gets extra time off then too. If you remember Parcells when he lost a ball game, he stayed up all that night and way into the morning going over film to see what was wrong. And why the cowboys failed to win. Heck, when Landrys team lost, he sure didnt give them extra days off for losing, he worked them even harder.

And that was Tom Landry. Wade Phillips tries to do that, he's laughed out of the locker room. It is not his fault. Everyone knew what kind of coach Wade Phillips was the day he was hired. It doesn't make much sense to hold his feet to the fire and absolve Jones, who is more active than any owner save Al Davis in the operational aspects of the football team.

Exactly, now and then you will find a great player or player that wants to be the best and works that extra mile, you dont have to motivate that other player, but most of the other players you have to work and push them, stay on top of them, thats what wade hasnt learned yet, or maybe he has, but has taken 3 years with the cowboys for him to learn that. Like Belicheat, saying ok if you win, do this and this, you get the day off or extra time off, and the players would win, but the players here dont win when the game is on the line and you have to win like the baltimore game or the eagle game.

If you remember the press tried to tell wade that the first year he was here, but he wouldnt hear of it, and same thing before the start of last season, the media told him about the special teams. Again, he wouldnt listen. So, I blame that on wade.

So why didn't Jerry Jones insist as two other owners have done with Wade Phillips that he replace ineffective coordinators? Again, this shouldn't be a revelation when the same behaviors repeat themselves.

So, basically after wade asked a former scout that worked with parcells and knows these dallas cowboy players now, what do you see wrong. The former scout told him, your special teams are awful wade, and have been ever since your start as a head coach, and your sloppy playing and not running barber enough.

I don't remember this particular scenario. Please explain.

What was wades response about felix jones, i dont trust him on special teams, but when austin got hurt and wade had to play felix on kickoffs you saw the results. What was the thing wade said about choice, i dont trust him running etc. But when barber got hurt, and with felix out of the running with injury you saw the results. Just think if wade had played choice some earlier, gotten him some spot duty here and there, the timing with choice and romo would have been better and we might have won that pittsburgh game, etc.

But when the head coach says, I dont trust him, its the head coaches job to get that player ready, but when the head coach gives those players extra days off, then how can a head coach really judge that player.

I think you are making way too much out of the practice schedules. I am sure you can find coaches who have had success doing it both ways. I have more of an issue how Phillips handles challenges and goes about carrying out messages. Part of the issue is that he is hamstrung by a lack of control. Until he gets that, there is always an asterisk.

Thats my whole point, wade is a great defensive coordinator, but as a head coach, he is a good ole boy, and good ole boys dont work out as head coaches. Now, hopefully after listening to the former cowboys scout, hearing what terry bradshaw, jimmy johnson, howie long all said your teams are sloppy and terrrible special teams, then wade finally sees it. You cant be a good ole boy as a head coach. The players either have to fear a head coach or respect him, which i hear the players have neither for wade. Now some of that is on jerry jones, for letting this go on ever since he let Jimmy Johnson go, and no head coach having full control.

That is all on Jones. Even with Coach Parcells we still saw personnel disagreements (Eddie George, Peerless Price). It took Parcells showing the owner they couldn't play for the light to go off.

What we have had is a GM/coach power struggle for years but what separates us from other teams is that the GM is also the owner and nobody is going to vehemently disagree with their boss. Eventually we all know who wins. So it is just a matter of Jones being convinced or it simply does not happen. I think Jones got a lot of convincing this past offseason and after the pain of last year's collapse. Hopefully, that helps.

But the former head coaches, like parcells, and now wade agreed to that contract to be the head coach, they knew what they were getting into. And they are paid handsomely like over 3 million a year as head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.

Phillips is being compensated very much like his [strike]co-head coach [/strike] offensive coordinator. So where is the natural pecking order that normally results from pay structure?

Which goes back to what im saying, you cant treat players like a good ole boy, you have to step on them,. Now some of that authority jerry jones has given back to wade. Look at what players were signed in free agency, brooking, who played for wade, Igor on defensive line, sensabaugh at free safety, whom wade played against in san diego and with campo knowing him as well as the special teams coach. Wade allowed to get to fine players if they are overweight.

You keep saying some this, some that. All of the authority needs to go to the head coach. Wade Phillips wanted Solari. Didn't get him. Instead we went with Houck. So now if the OL underperforms, will you be angry still at Phillips? You shouldn't be.

Remember in more than 3 games last year alexander, wade said, we got out played on defense, offense, special teams and coaching, yes Coaching, Why?

It could be a number of things. Even great coaches get outcoached. I can dig up dozens of times Tom Landry just admitted when his team got beat. The thing you have to hope for is learning from the mistakes. If there is one thing Phillips unfortunately has never shown is that ability. Hopefully, he has and is allowed his opportunity to implement things to the best of his ability. I have my doubts if his best is good enough, but that is another argument entirely.

 

[dadymat]

If the refs make the correct call on the Music City Forward Pass he'd have a least one playoff win.

i dont recall Wade throwing any interceptions or dropping TD passes in that Giant playoff game either....

Who cares about playoff wins if they dont add up to a Super Bowl.

Really.....winning 3 or 4 playoff games in a decade isnt success.......

Wade is a good coach....is cosidered a great DC.....and will be considered a very good HC if he wins a SB.

JMHO

it beats losing them...

 

[dadymat]

Landry and Jimmy Johnson (Belichick also) had control. There was no doubt who was the coach. There was no doubt who the players would ultimately be accountable to. We don't even seem to have a proper chain of command now as it seems we have defensive and offensive branches each functioning independently with a owner/GM in the middle.



Ask our owner. He's the one who wanted to put Reeves on a timeclock. Perhaps that was his "change".


In our case, it is "or else what". Pacman Jones could do as he pleased and came right back to work like nothing happened. Who do you believe gave him that empowerment? Hint, it wasn't Wade Phillips.



No, it goes to the ultimate decision maker. And since Jones has made it clear that is him, then that's where you should point your finger.



I think you are way off base here.



And that was Tom Landry. Wade Phillips tries to do that, he's laughed out of the locker room. It is not his fault. Everyone knew what kind of coach Wade Phillips was the day he was hired. It doesn't make much sense to hold his feet to the fire and absolve Jones, who is more active than any owner save Al Davis in the operational aspects of the football team.



So why didn't Jerry Jones insist as two other owners have done with Wade Phillips that he replace ineffective coordinators? Again, this shouldn't be a revelation when the same behaviors repeat themselves.



I don't remember this particular scenario. Please explain.



I think you are making way too much out of the practice schedules. I am sure you can find coaches who have had success doing it both ways. I have more of an issue how Phillips handles challenges and goes about carrying out messages. Part of the issue is that he is hamstrung by a lack of control. Until he gets that, there is always an asterisk.



That is all on Jones. Even with Coach Parcells we still saw personnel disagreements (Eddie George, Peerless Price). It took Parcells showing the owner they couldn't play for the light to go off.

What we have had is a GM/coach power struggle for years but what separates us from other teams is that the GM is also the owner and nobody is going to vehemently disagree with their boss. Eventually we all know who wins. So it is just a matter of Jones being convinced or it simply does not happen. I think Jones got a lot of convincing this past offseason and after the pain of last year's collapse. Hopefully, that helps.



Phillips is being compensated very much like his [strike]co-head coach [/strike] offensive coordinator. So where is the natural pecking order that normally results from pay structure?



You keep saying some this, some that. All of the authority needs to go to the head coach. Wade Phillips wanted Solari. Didn't get him. Instead we went with Houck. So now if the OL underperforms, will you be angry still at Phillips? You shouldn't be.



It could be a number of things. Even great coaches get outcoached. I can dig up dozens of times Tom Landry just admitted when his team got beat. The thing you have to hope for is learning from the mistakes. If there is one thing Phillips unfortunately has never shown is that ability. Hopefully, he has and is allowed his opportunity to implement things to the best of his ability. I have my doubts if his best is good enough, but that is another argument entirely.

you could have saved a lot of time typing and us a lot of time reading if you would have just wrote what you really wanted

"I HATE JERRY JONES"