The Wulf Den: Draft Reflections

Wulfman

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The Wulf Den: Draft Reflections
The draft has come and gone, the undrafted rookies have been signed, and we now have a better idea where we may still have needs to be addressed in free agency. As I mentioned in my “Draft Primer” last week, draft strategy is a complicated and varied thing. And, as much as some people refuse to believe it, the reality is that there is no such thing as drafting the best player available (BPA) every time, nor are there successful drafts driven strictly by teams’ needs. Those concepts may be what drive all of the mock drafts that seem to spawn like blowflies on rotting meat every year, but the reality is that every team considers any number of things before developing what their strategy will be for that year’s draft.

For example, who may be a really good player but not a fit for our team because of scheme, injury concern, off-field issues, etc? Where do we have holes that need to be filled, either in the draft or free agency? Who are the really explosive playmakers in the draft? Where are we getting older on our team where we will need an infusion of young talent? What contracts do we have that will be completed in the near future? What contracts do we have that will become hard or impossible to manage in the next year or two? What’s available in free agency that might allow us to have a contingency plan? What trade offers have been made to us by other teams that we might want to pursue? Where is the overall value in this draft, both in terms of position and round?

You see, it’s not as simple as just a BPA or fill-the-needs mindset. And if you think it is, you’ll likely fall into the category of the masses of “draft evaluators” who base everything they say and judge on their own perceptions of player talent and team need. The “experts” like Mel Kiper want to tell us the best player for a team to take, or judge why a player was the wrong choice. Well, I’ll tell you what…you show me the tape of Kiper actually playing football, and I’ll give his opinion a little more credence. Let me see on his resumé where he coached and at what level, or what front office he worked in.

Wait, you mean he hasn’t done any of that? Then why in the blue blazes would I trust his evaluation over the people who work in ANY front office around the league who have played and/or coached, and who watch more film collectively than he could possibly hope for?

Now before anyone thinks I’m singling Kiper out, let me assure you that’s not the case. I am simply using him as an example to say that there is no one in the media who has not been in the game or who is not actively evaluating in a collaborative way who will ever have as accurate of a picture of a player as those scouts and personnel guys who do it for a living 365 days a year. So even a guy like Mike Mayock who played the game, and who calls games as an analyst, isn’t as well versed as the guys who are pounding the road throughout the year. He admitted as much on screen, saying that it was a scout friend of his that first mentioned CB D. J. Hayden to him, and that prior to that, he didn’t even know the kid’s name. This is a first round draft pick we’re talking about, and he didn’t even know who he was!

So why are fans so eager to celebrate good grades given out by these guys immediately after the draft, or ready to fire everyone in the front office and burn the building down if the grades are bad? The simple answer is this: we don’t know the team’s draft strategy or draft board except for whatever little morsels they tell us about after the fact, so we therefore can’t understand how they arrived at the decisions they did. With that lack of knowledge comes a lack of comfort, causing us to reach out to fill the void with whatever the “experts” tell us, even before any of the players have set foot on the field.

So if you want to evaluate this draft, come talk to me leading into the 2015 NFL draft. At that point, we’ll know what we actually drafted, and be able to better evaluate just how successful the team was in not only drafting the right players, but in developing their draft strategy as a whole. For those of you who are ready to commit seppuku or jump off the cliff, back off and let things develop. For those of you convinced that this is an exceptional draft, back off and let things develop. There will be plenty of time for celebrating or complaining once we actually know which we should do.

Given what I’ve just said about not knowing the draft strategy of any team, even our own, it might now seem contradictory to discuss what I think about the picks made. And in a way it is, as I don’t know any better than the rest of you exactly what the Cowboys were thinking, what values they had placed on various players, who they had off of their draft board altogether, etc. What I will do, then, is base my opinion on my own evaluation of players’ talent and ability from film study combined with my own perceptions of the Cowboys’ team needs and what I believe they wanted to accomplish. Whether or not you agree is up to you, but I simply caution you not to buy into what the “experts” say any more or less than you buy into my opinion.

With that said, let’s take a look at the draft.

The Draft

In the first round, the Cowboys sat at #18, waiting to see who would drop to them. Perhaps they considered trading up in the draft, but I doubt they thought about it too much. There was a general consensus around the league that there was not a lot of elite talent at the top of the draft, but that there was a great deal of value to be had between picks 30-100. As such, many people had been advocating a trade down for the Cowboys if one of the players they had rated as first round talents wasn’t available when they went on the clock, rather than settling for a player not worthy of the pick.

When the time came for them to go on the clock, though, there was a player that all of the experts had rated as a top 5 prospect available, and at a position of perceived need. I, along with many others, was elated to see DT Sharrif Floyd available at pick #18, and was convinced that he would be the pick. As such, I’ll admit to a certain amount of frustration when they announced that the Cowboys had traded down with the 49ers, even though it was a scenario that I, myself, had thrown out as a distinct possibility. I was even more chagrined when I saw the trade compensation. After all, my handy dandy trade value chart said that we didn’t get good value by only getting a third round pick in return. We’ll set aside the fact that it’s the same chart that’s been out there since the Cowboys invented it in the early 90’s. After all, it’s not likely at all that the actual values had changed at any point in the last 20+ years, right?

If you didn’t pick up on it, that was sarcasm. The fact is that we have all used the trade value chart for years, but it has always been nothing more than a guideline. To think that it hasn’t changed over the years—especially with the new rookie wage scale in the new collective bargaining agreement—is naïve in the extreme. So maybe we got good value and maybe we didn’t. If you’re convinced we didn’t because of that widely-circulated value chart or simply because you wanted more, nothing I say will convince you otherwise. But I will say this: the only real way to evaluate who got the better of the deal will be to compare the players involved…and even that is flawed. Let’s say the Cowboys stayed put and took Floyd, the way I wanted. We have no way of knowing how much of an impact he would have had, even if he had been made the starter, and how he does in Minnesota in their scheme with their personnel won’t tell us how he would have done in Dallas either. What we will be able to see is how the players taken with the two picks the Cowboys got in return play, and how big of a role they’ll play for the Cowboys over the next few years.

So we get to pick #31, and a number of players that I had anticipated they might be interested in as a fallback position were gone. In fact, at that point, I didn’t have a single person with a first round grade on my board. At this point, you have the choice of trading down again for whatever you can get or standing pat and taking the best player on your board. The Cowboys decided on the latter and, considering the previously stated understanding that the best value in the draft would be between picks 30-100, as well as the fact that I don’t know if they had any trade offers OR what they may have been offered for pick #31, I’m not going to second guess them. With that pick, they chose Wisconsin C Travis Frederick. I didn’t have him rated quite that highly on my remaining draft board, but that’s not the important thing to me. The important thing is that their scouts, who have done an excellent job in identifying talent in recent years, led them to have him as their #22 overall prospect, and with only 19 players with first round grades, that means he was perceived by the front office as a top of the second round value. As such, they did not believe he would be available at #47, and NO ONE can prove that he would have been. So they took him, not only guaranteeing that they got someone of high value, but also guaranteeing a fifth year on his rookie contract. From a salary cap perspective, that fifth year is pretty significant.

When they got to pick #47 and both RBs Eddie Lacy and Montee Ball were available, I thought for certain that was going to be the pick. Instead, they announced TE Gavin Escobar from San Diego State, and once again, my temperature began to rise. Sure they needed a third TE, but couldn’t they have gotten one later? And wasn’t it a blocking TE they needed? Then why in the world did they take Escobar?!?

Oh, because he was at the top of their draft board, and almost equally ranked with Ertz and Eifert, the two TEs who had already been taken. Or maybe because every team in the league wants to be able to effectively run a 12-formation, putting two pass-catching TEs into the game at the same time to take advantages of mismatches on the field. Could James Hanna have done that for the Cowboys? No one knows. But Escobar arguably has the best hands of anyone in the draft, wide receiver or tight end, and the threat to the middle of the field with both he and Witten lined up at the same time cannot help but create mismatches OR draw the safeties inside, freeing up the WRs on the outside to play against 1-on-1 coverage. Still not a good enough image for you? Then try these two on for size.

Romo lines up in the shotgun with an empty backfield, Witten and Escobar at TE, Miles in the slot, and Terrance Williams (who I will discuss momentarily) and Dez on the outside. Even if opposing defenses rush three and drop eight into coverage, two of those five guys are going to have single coverage. That’s a nightmare that I hope plagues opposing defensive coordinators all year.

Or how about using a little 13-personnel, with Witten, Escobar, and Hanna all in the game, a single WR on the outside, and a single back? Looks a whole lot like a running formation, doesn’t it? But you have four legitimate receivers on the field, not counting the RB. Want to put 8 in the box to stop the rush? Go ahead. I’ll audible at the line, use my RB for pass protection, and send the WR and all three TEs out on routes with only three guys to cover them. Want to stay back to protect against the pass? Go ahead. I’ll run the ball right down your throat, and any of the three of those TEs should be good enough to do a seal block. For all of the talk about Escobar not being a blocker, you can see him seal-blocking in the running game in his highlight footage. He may not be a dominating blocker, but neither was Witten when he came out. I don’t need him to be dominating, I need him to be effective enough to allow the RB to do his thing. I think Escobar will be good enough, and more than good enough in the passing game. Is it where I had him rated? No, it’s a little higher, but only by about 10 picks. By my definition, that’s not a reach, and it gives them a flexibility that I don’t think Hanna gave them.

Then we get to the third round pick acquired in the trade down with San Francisco. And there sits WR Terrance Williams, who I had a second round grade on, waiting for us in the middle of the third. Whether people want to admit it or not, this, too, was a need pick. The Cowboys have been trying to find a third WR for years now, and by that I don’t mean a slot receiver. I think Dwayne Harris will fill that role just fine. But Miles and Dez are often injured, and Miles has added value out of the slot as well. What they needed was another guy with enough size and speed to line up outside and threaten deep, and Williams, who was the leading receiver in college football last year (and without RGIII, I might add), fits the bill. This was a nice value pick that also will fill a need on the roster as well as possibly giving the Cowboys an alternative to Austin a couple of years down the road if his injury problems continue.

With their own third round pick, they went with Georgia Southern’s S J. J. Wilcox. This is a guy that many of us heard they were interested in several weeks prior to the draft, so it came as no surprise. They certainly had a need at the safety position considering the unknowns facing them in regards to Church’s recovery and Matt Johnson’s ability to play the position. What’s pretty amazing about Wilcox, though, are his natural instincts at the position despite only playing it for one year. The former WR and RB is a phenomenal athlete, and you can actually see his game progress on the film as the season went along last year. He’s raw, but based on the obvious improvement during the season, as well as the way he showed up at the Senior Bowl, I believe that he could be a starter at the position as early as next year, and should provide a special teams boost this year even if he doesn’t challenge for a starting spot.

In the fourth round, the Cowboys made another very nice value pick by selecting CB B. W. Webb from Williams & Mary. Again, I had him rated as a third round value, and I heard some people talking about him as early as the second round. As such, getting him in the fourth round is a very nice choice. And lest there are those of you who don’t think he filled a need for the Cowboys, answer me this: who is the #4 CB on the roster? If you said Sterling Moore, you’re right. But do you want to hand him the job? Also, when Scandrick’s contract becomes less palatable in a year or two, who’s going to replace him? Add in that Webb has return ability as well as the Cowboys’ tendency for CBs to get injured, and there’s very little not to like about this pick.

When the fifth round came up, the Cowboys finally addressed their need for a RB to back-up starter Demarco Murray. Not only did this person need to be able to spell Murray occasionally, but with his tendency to get injured, the person picked here needed to be able to handle a starter’s duties, if necessary. Oklahoma State’s Joseph Randle was a nice value pick here, having been rated a least a full round higher than where he was taken. In addition, he has a number of traits in common with Murray, including size and running style, meaning that the Cowboys should be able to run the same offense no matter which RB is in the game. A very solid pick here, in my humble opinion.

With their last pick coming in the sixth round, the Cowboys took South Carolina OLB DeVonte Holloman. A converted safety, Holloman fills a need for depth at the LB position since a number of the LBs currently on the roster have been converted to DEs. Again, this was a value pick, as I had Holloman rated more than a full round higher than this. Based on the conversations with Holloman during and after his selection, this was Special Teams Coordinator Rich Bisaccia’s call all the way. As such, he’ll be expected to contribute immediately on special teams, and will work his way into competing for a bigger role on the defense as time goes along.

I would remiss if I wrapped up this section without mentioning the attempts the Cowboys’ made to trade back into the draft in the seventh round. The target? Arizona State OLB Brandon Magee. As it turns out, it’s a good thing that there were no takers, as they were able to sign him as an undrafted free agent just hours after the conclusion of the draft. And while we all know you can’t count of being able to find guys to make your roster from the ranks of the undrafted on a regular basis, the Cowboys seem to have a knack for being successful in this regard. It will be interesting to see if Magee or one or more of the others are able to have a sufficient impact to make the roster this year.

What’s Next?

The Cowboys will have a rookie mini-camp in ten days, and I anticipate we may see some churning at the bottom of the roster when it’s done. That’s to be expected, and we may not really have an idea about what role these new additions to the team will fill until the veterans arrive with the OTAs beginning in three weeks. At that point, some of the position and depth chart questions will begin to be answered.

In the meantime, the Cowboys have some needs that they were not able to fill during the draft. This is the case every year for every team, so it’s less a matter of lamenting what they couldn’t do and more a case of looking now at their alternatives. The one glaring need is to resolve the issue at RT. Jerry Jones made no bones about the fact that they were going to resolve Doug Free’s contract situation “sooner rather than later” following the draft, which, essentially, means that he’ll either take the pay cut they want him to take or he’ll be released. I believe whether fans want to hear it or not that the Cowboys would like to keep Free around at a discounted rate for depth purposes, if nothing else. I will not be surprised, however, if the Cowboys sign free agent RT Tyson Clabo within the next few days regardless of what Free decides to do. He would be an instant upgrade, IMHO, and doesn’t appear to be trying to break the bank.

Staying on the offensive line, the Cowboys could still be looking for a guard despite having drafted Frederick, who has nearly equal experience at both center and guard. Based on early comments by the staff, I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t begin at center, with Costa getting a chance to compete with him there as well as for one of the guard positions. Beyond that, though, there are a whole lot of question marks. Many saw Nate Livings struggle through a significant portion of the season, and how much of that may have been a result of poor play at the center position next to him or lingering injuries is anyone’s guess. Of the interior linemen, though, he appears to be the one with the least position flexibility, and is also the one whose restructured contract was NOT actually turned into the league. As such, he is, in many ways, the easiest of the veteran guards to release from a cap perspective. Other folks saw similar problems on the right side with Mackenzy Bernadeau, and I think he’s on the hot seat despite having some position flexibility AND a restructured contract. At best, I think they’re hoping he’ll provide veteran depth at multiple positions. And what about last year’s undrafted rookie, Ron Leary? Is he ready to compete for a starting job? If they believe he is, then they likely will hold pat at the position until he proves he’s not ready. If they’re not sure, though, it won’t surprise me to see them go out and get veteran Brandon Moore, in whom they’ve previously shown an interest.

The other position to watch in free agency is on the defensive line. And despite the howls of frustration from a lot of fans, it may not be at DT. A lot has been made about how they’re getting older inside, but looking at their roster, I just don’t see that. Ratliff and Hatcher are getting older, sure, but Lissemore, Crawford, Bass, and Calloway are all younger players…and that’s not including a guy who could push for a roster spot like Brian Price. They’ll rotate four guys through there during games, and it will not only save some of the wear and tear on those older guys, it will give the youngsters some much needed experience.

No, the need may be for a back-up DE. Ware and Spencer are set as your starters, and it’s expected that Crawford may get some looks out on the strong side as well. But who else is there? Is Alex Albright going to play at DE? I see no reason why he shouldn’t, especially considering he has been Ware’s back-up on the depth chart for the last couple of years. With his size, I think it more likely, though, that he would back-up Spencer on the strong side. This makes even more sense with the news that they’re going to be trying Kyle Wilber at DE as well. His size suggests he should play on the weak side behind Ware. Is that enough depth for you? I don’t know that it is enough for me. And if they decide to leave Albright at LB, the need grows even greater. I don’t anticipate them going out to get a Dwight Freeney or John Abraham to play behind Ware, but a player like free agent Israel Idonije who played with Chicago last year and knows the defense may be a cost effective addition.

The Rest of the Story

As we look forward after the draft, I don’t understand how people can be too upset about where the Cowboys stand. The general consensus was that the Cowboys needed to address the interior of the offensive line early in the draft, and then fill some team needs. Based on what I see of the draft, the Cowboys did exactly that. Did they fill all of the holes? Of course not. But then, few teams do. The reality is that free agency precedes the draft AND follows it for a reason, and that reason is to meet the needs every team has on its roster, while providing jobs to the veterans who find themselves without a team this time of the year.

As for the Cowboys, let’s take a look at what the 53-man roster may look right now.

QB (2) – Romo and Orton (no surprise here)
RB (3) – Murray, Randle, and Dunbar (I’ll be surprised if another RB on the roster can make a run at a roster spot.)
FB (1) – Vickers (Someone else may take his spot, but at this point, I doubt it.)
TE (3) – Witten, Escobar, and Hanna (No pure blocking TE, but I’m not convinced you need one in today’s NFL.)
WR (6) – Bryant, Austin, Williams, Harris, Beasley, and Coale (They may only take five here, and if they do, it’s between Coale and Beasley for the final spot.)
OL (9) – Smith, Free, Parnell, Bernadeau, Livings, Frederick, Costa, Cook, Leary (At this point, I think they’d like to bring in Clabo and a veteran guard, but I’ll stand here until they do.)
DL (9) – Spencer, Ware, Ratliff, Crawford, Hatcher, Lissemore, Calloway, Albright, and Wilber (This is presupposing that both Albright and Wilber will be treated as DEs.)
LB (7) – Lee, Carter, Durant, Holloman, Magee, Sims, and McSurdy (There will be a battle for the back-up positions, but this is what I’ve got until we actually get into mini-camp.)
CB (5) – Carr, Claiborne, Scandrick, Webb, Moore
S (5) – Church, Allen, Johnson, Wilcox, McCray (The fifith safety will come down to special teams and upside, which opens the door for Jakar Hamilton to beat out McCray.)
ST (3) – Jones, bailey, and Ladouceur (Nuff said)

Of course, there’s a long way to go, and only time will tell how the roster will ultimately shake out. But the front office has done what it feels is best for the betterment of the team. So whether you liked free agency or not, get ready. If you didn’t like the draft, it’s a part of the past. Let’s look ahead to the 2013 Cowboys. They are still America’s Team, and if the front office is right, we could be looking at a return to the playoffs and a divisional crown. If you don’t want to get on board, get off now, because this train is headed to the postseason.

All aboard!
 

IrishAnto

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Thanks for the post Wulf, a very good read indeed.

I won’t be convinced by the Escobar pick until I actually see them make it work.

They’ve tried this twice before with Fasano and Bennett and couldn’t get it to work.

Both have gone on the do much better with other teams and in Fasano’s case carve himself a nice little career with the Dolphins.

Just how good does the second TE need to be to enable you to run the 12 package effectively?

IMO while Whitten remains effective no other TE no matter how good is going to get much of a look in.
 

morasp

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Great read. I especially liked the Discussion of the two tight end formation.
 

Galian Beast

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IrishAnto;5073556 said:
Thanks for the post Wulf, a very good read indeed.

I won’t be convinced by the Escobar pick until I actually see them make it work.

They’ve tried this twice before with Fasano and Bennett and couldn’t get it to work.

Both have gone on the do much better with other teams and in Fasano’s case carve himself a nice little career with the Dolphins.

Just how good does the second TE need to be to enable you to run the 12 package effectively?

IMO while Whitten remains effective no other TE no matter how good is going to get much of a look in.


How good does a second tight end have to be to run it effectively?

Well the front office would say that they had quite a bit of success running the 12 with Martellus Bennett. He was probably the best run blocking tight end in the NFL.

That being said you don't see a stat sheet on that. Not really until you see our average take a nose dive from 2011 to 2012.

4.4 YPC to 3.6 YPC.

There are more than one way of being effective.

The idea here though is to open things up in both running game and the passing game. Escobar is a much more established receiver coming out of college than Martellus Bennett.

College numbers
Martellus Bennett - 1246 yards, 105 catches, 11.9 ypc, 10 touchdowns
Gavin Escobar - 1646 yards, 122 catches, 13.5 ypc, 17 touchdowns

And with the hope that he would continue to develop where as Martellus Bennett had a very difficult time developing, we would hope to see that production extend to what we want to do in the 12 formation.

So to answer your question on how good does the 2nd tight end have to be? I would say they need to be a legitimate threat, who is actually consistent in catching the balls and running their routes. Someone who can get open. Martellus Bennett was just never a consistent receiver for us. But even then you can see he is developing somewhat as a receiver.

New York made him their primary target tight end, which put him directly into position to catch balls. He caught 5 touchdowns, and 626 yards.

The issue with Bennett though is this.

90 targets, 55 receptions. To me that isn't especially great for a tight end. That is a 61% completion rate.

Compare that to Witten who was at 73%.
Gronkowski who was at 69.6 percent.

It is in line with Hernandez who a poor/injured plagued year and had 60 percent, but compared to his previous year he was right up there at the 69 percent mark.

You could certainly say that the Patriots were as effective passing the ball last year as they were the year before when their 12 really took off.

If I'm the Patriots I would be especially worried about this year.

Both Gronkowski and Hernandez are dealing with injuries and they let Welker go in free agency. They also let Brandon Lloyd go. That's your top 4 producers from last year.

They replaced Welker with Amendola.
They replaced Lloyd with Donald Jones.

They drafted

Josh Boyce
Aaron Dobson

They're going to have to trust that their rookie wide receivers perform and perform quickly.
 

IrishAnto

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Galian Beast;5073559 said:
How good does a second tight end have to be to run it effectively?

Well the front office would say that they had quite a bit of success running the 12 with Martellus Bennett. He was probably the best run blocking tight end in the NFL.

That being said you don't see a stat sheet on that. Not really until you see our average take a nose dive from 2011 to 2012.

4.4 YPC to 3.6 YPC.

There are more than one way of being effective.

The idea here though is to open things up in both running game and the passing game. Escobar is a much more established receiver coming out of college than Martellus Bennett.

College numbers
Martellus Bennett - 1246 yards, 105 catches, 11.9 ypc, 10 touchdowns
Gavin Escobar - 1646 yards, 122 catches, 13.5 ypc, 17 touchdowns

And with the hope that he would continue to develop where as Martellus Bennett had a very difficult time developing, we would hope to see that production extend to what we want to do in the 12 formation.

So to answer your question on how good does the 2nd tight end have to be? I would say they need to be a legitimate threat, who is actually consistent in catching the balls and running their routes. Someone who can get open. Martellus Bennett was just never a consistent receiver for us. But even then you can see he is developing somewhat as a receiver.

New York made him their primary target tight end, which put him directly into position to catch balls. He caught 5 touchdowns, and 626 yards.

The issue with Bennett though is this.

90 targets, 55 receptions. To me that isn't especially great for a tight end. That is a 61% completion rate.

Compare that to Witten who was at 73%.
Gronkowski who was at 69.6 percent.

This front office says a lot of things that don’t translate to wins on the field.

I get the concept of what they’re trying to do, it’s just the execution of said concept seems to be their problem.

From Escobar’s scouting report his blocking is not going to be the reason our YPC improves (if it does at all), although if his hands are as good as advertised then he should be a better end zone threat.

And while Escobar’s numbers are indeed better than Bennett’s, is not exactly night and day and of course unless you are familiar with how good/bad/indifferent their respective teams were when they compiled those numbers not exactly the best indicator of just how good they are/can be.

I would have thought that somebody capable of catching for 600 yards and catching 5 TD was enough of a legitimate threat to make the 12 package work.

You only focus on Bennett but as I said above what about Fasano?

He’s had a nice career with the Dolphins.

Why couldn’t they make it work with him?

Is he also not enough of a legitimate threat?

As I said above while Whitten is still in his pomp, I don’t think Romo/Garrett will give anyone enough of a chance to make it work.

Time will obviously tell, but history doesn’t make me think it will be enough of a success to warrant spending a 2nd round pick on a TE.
 

9darter

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Wulfman;5073535 said:
I simply caution you not to buy into what the “experts” say

Wulfman;5073535 said:
There was a general consensus around the league that there was not a lot of elite talent at the top of the draft, but that there was a great deal of value to be had between picks 30-100.

Wulfman;5073535 said:
considering the previously stated understanding that the best value in the draft would be between picks 30-100

If you don't care about the "experts", because they don't know a thing about how the Cowboys have the prospects ranked etc., then why would you care about whatever the general consensus is? It makes no sense.

Forget about the "experts". Forget about the general consensus.

Wulfman;5073535 said:
What I will do, then, is base my opinion on my own evaluation of players’ talent and ability from film study

Wulfman;5073535 said:
Wisconsin C Travis Frederick. I didn’t have him rated quite that highly on my remaining draft board, but that’s not the important thing to me.

This is a mess. Stick to your own opinion.

Wulfman;5073535 said:
So if you want to evaluate this draft, come talk to me leading into the 2015 NFL draft.

All of this "you can't evaluate now" is nonsense. If you can't evaluate now, then you can't draft in the first place.

You think they looked happy in the War Room after the Escobar selection, because they could not evaluate on the pick?

You can and should evaluate now, in a month, in a year etc. It's meaningless to state anything else.
 

Silver N Blue

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Great stuff once again. As you I came away a couple days later o.k. with the direction of this draft. Now lets see what they do before the season starts.
 

IrishAnto

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CopenhagenCowboy;5073571 said:
All of this "you can't evaluate now" is nonsense. If you can't evaluate now, then you can't draft in the first place.

You think they looked happy in the War Room after the Escobar selection, because they could not evaluate on the pick?

You can and should evaluate now, in a month, in a year etc. It's meaningless to state anything else.

You can evaluate now all you like but it will just a projection (or a best guess if you will).

The true test of whether a draft was good or not, will only come in about 3-4 years.

There will be many factors many of which you can't possibly know at this point in time.

We got good grades for the 2008 draft, but it's not looking too good now.

Julius Jones looked like the real deal after his rookie year, but didn't pan out.

Who would have guessed how Romo would turn out when we signed him as an undrafted free agent.

On the other hand to be fair most did immediately see the 2009 was rubbish from the get-go.
 

Galian Beast

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IrishAnto;5073562 said:
This front office says a lot of things that don’t translate to wins on the field.

I get the concept of what they’re trying to do, it’s just the execution of said concept seems to be their problem.

From Escobar’s scouting report his blocking is not going to be the reason our YPC improves (if it does at all), although if his hands are as good as advertised then he should be a better end zone threat.

And while Escobar’s numbers are indeed better than Bennett’s, is not exactly night and day and of course unless you are familiar with how good/bad/indifferent their respective teams were when they compiled those numbers not exactly the best indicator of just how good they are/can be.

I would have thought that somebody capable of catching for 600 yards and catching 5 TD was enough of a legitimate threat to make the 12 package work.

You only focus on Bennett but as I said above what about Fasano?

He’s had a nice career with the Dolphins.

Why couldn’t they make it work with him?

Is he also not enough of a legitimate threat?

As I said above while Whitten is still in his pomp, I don’t think Romo/Garrett will give anyone enough of a chance to make it work.

Time will obviously tell, but history doesn’t make me think it will be enough of a success to warrant spending a 2nd round pick on a TE.

It may or may not translate to wins. There are a lot more factors in play than just their strategy.

The goal to improve our YPC with Escobar, is by forcing them to go smaller in order to have a player who can cover Escobar. If they go smaller, we gain the advantage in blocking compared to the 21 formation.

There are huge separations between Bennett and Escobar. Escobar is a natural pass catcher. Bennett certainly was not. Escobar has also established himself as someone who scores touchdowns, having nearly double Bennett's college production.

While Bennett was capable of catching for 600 yards and 5 touchdowns, it required 90 targets to accomplish this.

That is below average for this team, which is exactly why the team didn't waste many targets on him.

The cowboys had 658 targets last year for 4992 yards. This equates to 7.58662614 yards per target.

Anyone who had less yards per target than this would severely bring down the average.

Why? Because there are players like Dez Bryant who have an average of 10.014492754 drastically bringing up the average.

Jason Witten had a pretty bad year, and even he had a significantly better average than Bennett.

They gave up on Fasano really early. I would certainly have suggested that if they had kept Fasano our 12 package would have worked out pretty well. That being said, he really struggled the first couple of years here. And wasn't a great blocker either.

Has little do with Witten though. That is just a major cop out.
 

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CopenhagenCowboy;5073571 said:
If you don't care about the "experts", because they don't know a thing about how the Cowboys have the prospects ranked etc., then why would you care about whatever the general consensus is? It makes no sense.

Forget about the "experts". Forget about the general consensus.





This is a mess. Stick to your own opinion.



All of this "you can't evaluate now" is nonsense. If you can't evaluate now, then you can't draft in the first place.

You think they looked happy in the War Room after the Escobar selection, because they could not evaluate on the pick?

You can and should evaluate now, in a month, in a year etc. It's meaningless to state anything else.

The thing about aggregates is that they tend to be more accurate than individual assessments. That being said, the concern is that the "experts" aren't individually coming up with their expert analysis, and it becomes more of an echo chamber. The deeper into the draft the less credible these experts become. They don't spend a lot of time at smaller schools, so outside of the first round especially I wouldn't give them much credence.
 

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IrishAnto;5073588 said:
You can evaluate now all you like but it will just a projection (or a best guess if you will).

The true test of whether a draft was good or not, will only come in about 3-4 years.

There will be many factors many of which you can't possibly know at this point in time.

We got good grades for the 2008 draft, but it's not looking too good now.

Julius Jones looked like the real deal after his rookie year, but didn't pan out.

Who would have guessed how Romo would turn out when we signed him as an undrafted free agent.

On the other hand to be fair most did immediately see the 2009 was rubbish from the get-go.

I also don't think it's necessarily fair to compare to players in two different situations.

Julius Jones would not have been my pick, but who is to say that Steven Jackson would have been any more successful with our offensive line? Would we have forced him to split carries? Change his running style?

The same goes for Felix Jones. He never really had a chance here, and injuries obviously didn't help. But our constant ignoring of the offensive line didn't help things.

We got a bulked up offensive line in 2006 and 2007, and that really helped with the goal line scoring which vaulted Barber to the pro bowl, but I'm not sure how that really helped us going forward. The line was never great at pass blocking, and it just deteriorated year after year.

Jerry has made two key moves to solidify the line for the future, but he does need to do more. I'd love 2 free agents on the line this year, I'll take just one at tackle though. You get another offensive linemen in rounds 1-3 next year, and maybe develop another guy... and we'll be cooking.
 

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First off Wulf, thanks for all that hard work and analysis. I don't agree with some of it but I enjoyed the read.

But I have one issue that keeps coming up and it's unbecoming if a fan base. The old "these experts/mediots don't know as much as they seem" due to bad grades given or not liking picks or because if where they rated picks. Maybe in the CZ bubble where local hacks and ESPN are your go to sources but overall there are a lot of credible people out there who aren't scouts who study film 24/7 and who watch these guys year around, not just pre draft. Take Greg Cosell who for 30 years has been working at NFL Films and who analyzes tape weekly. He's been branching out and is considered one of the top Peopme NFL GMs consult with. Heck, Lance Zierlein in Houston, the radio host and whose dad is a NFL Oline coach, has a website, the Sideline View and he and John Harris and others analyze tape and players year round. These scouts aren't infallible or there wouldn't be so many bad teams with bad drafts. The key is getting as much info as possible and looking at it from afar instead of just trying to make a fit because the Cowboys did it. Many of these people didn't like Frederick but liked the rest of our draft. Defensiveness is no good.
 

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HoustonFrog;5073624 said:
First off Wulf, thanks for all that hard work and analysis. I don't agree with some of it but I enjoyed the read.

But I have one issue that keeps coming up and it's unbecoming if a fan base. The old "these experts/mediots don't know as much as they seem" due to bad grades given or not liking picks or because if where they rated picks. Maybe in the CZ bubble where local hacks and ESPN are your go to sources but overall there are a lot of credible people out there who aren't scouts who study film 24/7 and who watch these guys year around, not just pre draft. Take Greg Cosell who for 30 years has been working at NFL Films and who analyzes tape weekly. He's been branching out and is considered one of the top Peopme NFL GMs consult with. Heck, Lance Zierlein in Houston, the radio host and whose dad is a NFL Oline coach, has a website, the Sideline View and he and John Harris and others analyze tape and players year round. These scouts aren't infallible or there wouldn't be so many bad teams with bad drafts. The key is getting as much info as possible and looking at it from afar instead of just trying to make a fit because the Cowboys did it. Many of these people didn't like Frederick but liked the rest of our draft. Defensiveness is no good.

The reality is that these "experts" have limited resources. Where as NFL teams have scouting departments filled with scouts doing this year round as their job. There is a specific division of the department specifically for college players.

They don't just watch tape, but they go to schools, interview players and their coaches. And it's not just one scout as I said before. You could have a scout or group of scouts just for once conference for instance or a guy who's job it is to look at specific position groups.

The reality is that these "Experts" have great limited knowledge compared to scouts, and greatly limited knowledge in regards to what teams are looking for as far as their scheme goes.

Most of these mock drafts fall apart after the first round, and these initial draft grades are ridiculous, and hardly revisited.
 

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HoustonFrog;5073624 said:
Many of these people didn't like Frederick but liked the rest of our draft. Defensiveness is no good.

And to be fair, many of them did like him.

The media get criticized because of people like Werder who according to the story found only mid and late round takers on Frederick. That is obviously selecting only the data you want.

It works both ways.

I suspect we won't have to wait long to get an on the field evaluation of Frederick. He'll likely be starting day 1 and analyzed repeatedly. This won't be one of those, wait three years scenarios.
 

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Galian Beast;5073559 said:
How good does a second tight end have to be to run it effectively?

Well the front office would say that they had quite a bit of success running the 12 with Martellus Bennett. He was probably the best run blocking tight end in the NFL.

That being said you don't see a stat sheet on that. Not really until you see our average take a nose dive from 2011 to 2012.

4.4 YPC to 3.6 YPC.

There are more than one way of being effective.

The idea here though is to open things up in both running game and the passing game. Escobar is a much more established receiver coming out of college than Martellus Bennett.

College numbers
Martellus Bennett - 1246 yards, 105 catches, 11.9 ypc, 10 touchdowns
Gavin Escobar - 1646 yards, 122 catches, 13.5 ypc, 17 touchdowns

And with the hope that he would continue to develop where as Martellus Bennett had a very difficult time developing, we would hope to see that production extend to what we want to do in the 12 formation.

So to answer your question on how good does the 2nd tight end have to be? I would say they need to be a legitimate threat, who is actually consistent in catching the balls and running their routes. Someone who can get open. Martellus Bennett was just never a consistent receiver for us. But even then you can see he is developing somewhat as a receiver.

New York made him their primary target tight end, which put him directly into position to catch balls. He caught 5 touchdowns, and 626 yards.

The issue with Bennett though is this.

90 targets, 55 receptions. To me that isn't especially great for a tight end. That is a 61% completion rate.

Compare that to Witten who was at 73%.
Gronkowski who was at 69.6 percent.

It is in line with Hernandez who a poor/injured plagued year and had 60 percent, but compared to his previous year he was right up there at the 69 percent mark.

You could certainly say that the Patriots were as effective passing the ball last year as they were the year before when their 12 really took off.

If I'm the Patriots I would be especially worried about this year.

Both Gronkowski and Hernandez are dealing with injuries and they let Welker go in free agency. They also let Brandon Lloyd go. That's your top 4 producers from last year.

They replaced Welker with Amendola.
They replaced Lloyd with Donald Jones.

They drafted

Josh Boyce
Aaron Dobson

They're going to have to trust that their rookie wide receivers perform and perform quickly.

you really think MB was the reason for the drop in YPC? I doubt he was that much of a reason.
 

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Miller

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Galian Beast;5073631 said:
The reality is that these "experts" have limited resources. Where as NFL teams have scouting departments filled with scouts doing this year round as their job. There is a specific division of the department specifically for college players.

They don't just watch tape, but they go to schools, interview players and their coaches. And it's not just one scout as I said before. You could have a scout or group of scouts just for once conference for instance or a guy who's job it is to look at specific position groups.

The reality is that these "Experts" have great limited knowledge compared to scouts, and greatly limited knowledge in regards to what teams are looking for as far as their scheme goes.

Most of these mock drafts fall apart after the first round, and these initial draft grades are ridiculous, and hardly revisited.

You are right in some respects but guys like Cosell are watching the same scouting film. They speak to the GMs and team officials weekly. People need to stop acting like that some of these guys are just media guys taking guesses. It's embarrassing. They know more than any one person on this board, guaranteed. And, again, if the scouts were so infallible, why have we drafted so poorly the last 17 years or so with the exception of a few years? These same guys have personal tendencies. Some are old school and rely on 40 times. Some like psychological backgrounds. Some just like what they see in film. It's preference. I read the other day that on some guys pro days, scouts and GMs will watch one part of a guys workout and make up their mind and move on. If that's their mindset, then there are people they will miss on. If these guys were so good they wouldn't "miss" as much as they do. They all have biases as to why they lean one guy or another. It's an inexact science and the teams that work it the best are the ones with a set system that caters to knowing who fits that system. The Pittsburghs and GBs over the long haul..not every year. We change offensive or D philosophies with the wind...just like the TE thing and being "NE" now.

CoCo;5073632 said:
And to be fair, many of them did like him.

The media get criticized because of people like Werder who according to the story found only mid and late round takers on Frederick. That is obviously selecting only the data you want.

It works both ways.

I suspect we won't have to wait long to get an on the field evaluation of Frederick. He'll likely be starting day 1 and analyzed repeatedly. This won't be one of those, wait three years scenarios.

True, some likes the guy a lot, just not where he was picked. Others thought he was incredibly slow and had him way down. But I saw many people who liked the value we got in other rounds. Doesn't make them right or wrong. I just don't like seeing people get so up in arms like all of these people have an agenda. Its not like Goose, who seems to have limited knowledge but uses his contacts to make a Mock Draft yearly. There are many guys in "the know" who have constant contacts with team scouts and who scout themselves.
 
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