TheCount's Post-Combine Mock V1.0

[xwalker]

Certainly but Martin rates right around there. Martin is easily the fourth best OL. He is as good a prospect as Martin was last year and light years ahead of Warmack.

My board looks like

Clowney
Robinson
Mack
Watkins
Matthews
Lewan
Barr
Donald
Martin
Evans
Ealy

Good list.

The 2 I'm not certain about in terms of the value of drafting them at #16 is Ealy and Martin.

Ealy seems more like a Strong Side DE and not the super quick Weak Side DE type. The SDE types seem easier to find and the Cowboys are really lacking in having any DEs that are super quick. Physically, Barr would be the ideal type in that role. He has elite quickness but needs work on his skills.

I really like Martin, I just question the value of drafting him at 16. I think he is a great fit as a Zone Blocking OG but is very similar in that role to Su'a-Filo. Also, this draft is really deep with OG talent, IMO. The mid round guys are just not as well developed in their skill sets as Martin but several of them have really high upsides.

My notes from watching game footage of OLinemen are here if you're interested:
http://www.walker-texas.com/2014-draft/2014-draft-OG.pdf
http://www.walker-texas.com/2014-draft/2014-draft-OT.pdf

 

[tm1119]

As I pour through game footage for this draft, I see many players and think "That guy would be better than Doug Free". JaWaun James is ranked as a 4th rounder and he would probably walk in and be better than Doug Free at RT.

Drafting Martin at #16 is not about comparing him to Free or Bernadeau, is about comparing him to the players that you didn't draft.

Agree completely. I have no doubt Martin is going to be at least a solid nfl lineman, but I just don't see him as a big difference maker for us. When drafting at 16 you need to look for an impact player, at least in my opinion

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good list.

The 2 I'm not certain about in terms of the value of drafting them at #16 is Ealy and Martin.

Ealy seems more like a Strong Side DE and not the super quick Weak Side DE type. The SDE types seem easier to find and the Cowboys are really lacking in having any DEs that are super quick. Physically, Barr would be the ideal type in that role. He has elite quickness but needs work on his skills.

I really like Martin, I just question the value of drafting him at 16. I think he is a great fit as a Zone Blocking OG but is very similar in that role to Su'a-Filo. Also, this draft is really deep with OG talent, IMO. The mid round guys are just not as well developed in their skill sets as Martin but several of them have really high upsides.

My notes from watching game footage of OLinemen are here if you're interested:
http://www.walker-texas.com/2014-draft/2014-draft-OG.pdf
http://www.walker-texas.com/2014-draft/2014-draft-OT.pdf

For his size, Ealy is super quick. 6.83 3-cone is elite. I think a lot of the reason why Ealy is poopooed is because of how he was used.

Let's say Missouri did not use the Tampa 2. Ealy 2 gapped a lot and was asked to slant and crash with a lot. He wasn't asked to attack OT to the outside all too often. Instead a saw a lot of alignments where he was lined up in a 3 man line right over the guard and 2 gap for all he was worth. They played him at 2 technique more than 3. When he was aksed to stunt gaps or rush upfield you could see the athleticism and when he was asked to man up he was physical to all comers. He would get washed out on stretch plays but that about it.

I didn't see a guy standing up at the snap or dogging it off the line. I saw a whole lot of 2 gap paddy cake.

I finally watched the UCLA guard and I understand why he is a couple tiers below the top guys and Martin from a skill and technique level is light years ahead. S-F is long legged and upright. Thin hips and long legs make it harder to sit down. Martin is a stubby 6-4 with wide hips and he naturally sits down into his stance. That allows him to move at the hips and cover ground. Martin does have a heavier foot so to speak but because he sits down so naturally he covers ground and maintains a power position consistently better than thinner men. Teams constantly tried attacking off the slot or the edge to his outside and he consistently beat people to the spot outside

In short S-F doesn't do that. He stands up a lot. He is big and strong so he doesn't get punched around but you often see S-F latched onto a guy stood straight up and holding on for all that he has got. Martin uses his hands better than about anyone I have watched in awhile. His punch is awesome. He hits you, steps/slides in and either hits again or picks up and finishes blocks. When he hits DBs they ragdoll. It's hilarious.

I get why you like S-F but I also get why Martin is rated in the top half of the draft by many.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The love for the UCLA OG reminds me of the love for the Cal OC from last year. They both seem pretty raw to me.

 

[tm1119]

For his size, Ealy is super quick. 6.83 3-cone is elite. I think a lot of the reason why Ealy is poopooed is because of how he was used.

Let's say Missouri did not use the Tampa 2. Ealy 2 gapped a lot and was asked to slant and crash with a lot. He wasn't asked to attack OT to the outside all too often. Instead a saw a lot of alignments where he was lined up in a 3 man line right over the guard and 2 gap for all he was worth. They played him at 2 technique more than 3. When he was aksed to stunt gaps or rush upfield you could see the athleticism and when he was asked to man up he was physical to all comers. He would get washed out on stretch plays but that about it.

I didn't see a guy standing up at the snap or dogging it off the line. I saw a whole lot of 2 gap paddy cake.

I finally watched the UCLA guard and I understand why he is a couple tiers below the top guys and Martin from a skill and technique level is light years ahead. S-F is long legged and upright. Thin hips and long legs make it harder to sit down. Martin is a stubby 6-4 with wide hips and he naturally sits down into his stance. That allows him to move at the hips and cover ground. Martin does have a heavier foot so to speak but because he sits down so naturally he covers ground and maintains a power position consistently better than thinner men. Teams constantly tried attacking off the slot or the edge to his outside and he consistently beat people to the spot outside

In short S-F doesn't do that. He stands up a lot. He is big and strong so he doesn't get punched around but you often see S-F latched onto a guy stood straight up and holding on for all that he has got. Martin uses his hands better than about anyone I have watched in awhile. His punch is awesome. He hits you, steps/slides in and either hits again or picks up and finishes blocks. When he hits DBs they ragdoll. It's hilarious.

I get why you like S-F but I also get why Martin is rated in the top half of the draft by many.

I agree that Ealy is underrated is underrated around here. You watch his tape and it seems like directly rushing the passer is his #1 assignment only like 50% of the time. I think he flashes elite athleticism when used as just an edge rusher and his combine proved that. He's not a finished project yet, but his potential is through the roof.

And have you watched Brandon Thomas or Joel Bitonio at all? I'm curious to see how you think those 2nd/3rd round picks stack up against Martin.

 

[TheCount]

The love for the UCLA OG reminds me of the love for the Cal OC from last year. They both seem pretty raw to me.

Schwenke wasn't as much of a prospect as S'ua Filo is, not sure what they really have in common. Schwenke also got knocked quite a bit for his short arms, but he's a starter in the NFL anyway.

 

[xwalker]

For his size, Ealy is super quick. 6.83 3-cone is elite. I think a lot of the reason why Ealy is poopooed is because of how he was used.

Let's say Missouri did not use the Tampa 2. Ealy 2 gapped a lot and was asked to slant and crash with a lot. He wasn't asked to attack OT to the outside all too often. Instead a saw a lot of alignments where he was lined up in a 3 man line right over the guard and 2 gap for all he was worth. They played him at 2 technique more than 3. When he was aksed to stunt gaps or rush upfield you could see the athleticism and when he was asked to man up he was physical to all comers. He would get washed out on stretch plays but that about it.

I didn't see a guy standing up at the snap or dogging it off the line. I saw a whole lot of 2 gap paddy cake.

I finally watched the UCLA guard and I understand why he is a couple tiers below the top guys and Martin from a skill and technique level is light years ahead. S-F is long legged and upright. Thin hips and long legs make it harder to sit down. Martin is a stubby 6-4 with wide hips and he naturally sits down into his stance. That allows him to move at the hips and cover ground. Martin does have a heavier foot so to speak but because he sits down so naturally he covers ground and maintains a power position consistently better than thinner men. Teams constantly tried attacking off the slot or the edge to his outside and he consistently beat people to the spot outside

In short S-F doesn't do that. He stands up a lot. He is big and strong so he doesn't get punched around but you often see S-F latched onto a guy stood straight up and holding on for all that he has got. Martin uses his hands better than about anyone I have watched in awhile. His punch is awesome. He hits you, steps/slides in and either hits again or picks up and finishes blocks. When he hits DBs they ragdoll. It's hilarious.

I get why you like S-F but I also get why Martin is rated in the top half of the draft by many.

Good discussion. It's great to get in depth feedback.

With regards to Ealy, when he does rush to the outside I just don't see elite quickness. He's a good player and might be the best option at #16, but I wouldn't be overly excited about it. If Barr fell to 16 I love his quickness. He's not as developed as a football player as Ealy, but his quickness is elite, IMO. Physically, Barr reminds me of DeMarcus Ware while Ealy reminds me of Greg Ellis.

I'm not that big of a fan of Su'a-Filo, but I just think Martin's not that much better. If we're talking about Martin at 16 vs S-F at 18 then I'm OK with Martin, but if you could trade down to 28 and get S-F then that would be any easy choice for me.

The OGs that I really like for the Cowboys considering that they have a reasonable starting unit returning are:
Marcus Martin
Billy Turner OG or OT
Dakota Dozier
Brandon Thomas
Trai Turner

Last year I would have been more in favor of drafting an OG in the 1st because both OG spots were terrible in 2012. This year I'm OK drafting some guys that might not be ready to start on day 1 but have very good physical upside.

I would be interested in you opinions on the players I listed above.