Theory about our success with undrafted FA's

[Cowboys22]

Yet, no one has beaten them out since. Fact remains is that the scouts found 3 starters (one Pro Bowl caliber) off the street. While Jerry has drafted Felix Jones, Bobby Carpenter, Marcus Spears, and Mike Jenkins in the first round.

Yeah, the scouts had nothing to do with where those guys were on the draft board. You should think before you type. How convienent of you not to mention the drafting of Ware, Spencer, Smith, Lee, Carter, Bryant, Claiborne, and Murray. Does Jones get the credit for them or were those picks credited to the scouts in your book?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And yet we're one of the weakest football teams when it comes to the trenches, where games are really won.

I don't necessarily agree. We have book end pro bowl type talents on the D-line. And we have a potential top 5 LT who is still a baby. And have a potential decade long starter at center.

One could question depth but even then one is being disingenuous as we have young guys on the dline ready to contribute in Wilbur and Crawford and young guys competing across our interior offensive line.

I just honestly think people like to complain and repeat the same tired talking points.

 

[TheSport78]

I don't necessarily agree. We have book end pro bowl type talents on the D-line. And we have a potential top 5 LT who is still a baby. And have a potential decade long starter at center.

One could question depth but even then one is being disingenuous as we have young guys on the dline ready to contribute in Wilbur and Crawford and young guys competing across our interior offensive line.

I just honestly think people like to complain and repeat the same tired talking points.

Nope, I think maybe it's the fact that the Cowboys were 31st in rushing last year? Could have something to do with it.

You mention Tyron Smith, but we have no idea how Frederick will be, and the other THREE OL positions are made up of JAGS right now. How can you have depth on the OL when 3/5 of your starters stink?

All projected starters on the DL are 30+ years old. Ware is coming off of an injury plagued season and he likely won't be any better. He's peaked IMO.

Spencer should convert fine to DE but I'll be very upset if the Cowboys ink him to a long term deal.

Ratliff hasn't had a TFL in 50 seasons, and he hasn't been a solid player for us in years. Hatcher isn't proven at the 1 tech and I have doubts he can fill that role. The DL is a major concern.

 

[dcstands4]

Yet, no one has beaten them out since. Fact remains is that the scouts found 3 starters (one Pro Bowl caliber) off the street. While Jerry has drafted Felix Jones, Bobby Carpenter, Marcus Spears, and Mike Jenkins in the first round.

Outside of Bobby carpenter would you really call those BAD players? Felix like DeMarco (as we are seeing) cant carry the 16 game load, but explosiveness is there. Tell me what you think of Marcus Spears after being with a team that "knows" defensive inside and out and like Ozzie and the ravens do and Mike Jenkins was a luxary to have when Mo wen down last year I wish we still had him he still has pro bowl on his resume.

and all except for Jenkins would prolly be on our roster if not for cap space...

 

[TheSport78]

Outside of Bobby carpenter would you really call those BAD players? Felix like DeMarco (as we are seeing) cant carry the 16 game load, but explosiveness is there. Tell me what you think of Marcus Spears after being with a team that "knows" defensive inside and out and like Ozzie and the ravens do and Mike Jenkins was a luxary to have when Mo wen down last year I wish we still had him he still has pro bowl on his resume.

and all except for Jenkins would prolly be on our roster if not for cap space...

Actually, Carpenter and Spears were Parcells picks.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

Yeah, the scouts had nothing to do with where those guys were on the draft board. You should think before you type. How convienent of you not to mention the drafting of Ware, Spencer, Smith, Lee, Carter, Bryant, Claiborne, and Murray. Does Jones get the credit for them or were those picks credited to the scouts in your book?

Of course Jones get credit for picking them, but it's his percentage of misses in the high rounds that is my point. That is what has set this franchise back and made it the perennial 8-8 team it is. And it seems to happen more often when he makes trades instead of sticking to the scouts' board (like Felix Jones, and this year, Frederick).

You say, I should think before I type, maybe you should take a look at the entire list of Jerry's first round picks before you type (below). 4 for 19 (including the 5 #1 picks traded away) is piss poor. Meanwhile, the scouts found a franchise QB, pro bowl WR, and starting S off the street.

Shante Carver
David LaFleur
Greg Ellis (over Randy Moss)
Ebenezer Ekuban
Roy Williams
Terrence Newman
Demarcus Ware
Marcus Spears
Bobby Carpenter
Felix Jones
Mike Jenkins
Dez Bryant
Tyron Smith
Mo Claiborne
+ 5 #1 picks traded away (Joey Galloway, Roy Williams)

 

[dcstands4]

Actually, Carpenter and Spears were Parcells picks.

im missing what that has to do with their ability...

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Nope, I think maybe it's the fact that the Cowboys were 31st in rushing last year? Could have something to do with it.

The line was bad last year. And our RB got hurt and we had no capable backup. I agree.

But there were significant injuries to the Oline dating back to training camp and throughout the season. We have since added a 1st rounder to the mix and a lot of our young guys presumably (Smith included) should have developed over the course of another year in an NFL program.

To look at the line this year and not be cautiously optimistic speaks to an agenda.

You mention Tyron Smith, but we have no idea how Frederick will be, and the other THREE OL positions are made up of JAGS right now. How can you have depth on the OL when 3/5 of your starters stink?

I don't think Jermey stinks and have high expectations. Same with Leary. Same with Costa.

And wait did you say Livings sucks? Did you even watch any games?

All projected starters on the DL are 30+ years old. Ware is coming off of an injury plagued season and he likely won't be any better. He's peaked IMO.

You can say the DL isn't young. But none of the guys (save RAT) is noticeably declining and going to a 4-3 could be beneficial for him.

And again we have young guys who look like they can contribute.

We need to continue to invest resources into the Dline...starting next year but to call the Dline "weak" is stupidity.

Your arguments don't stand up.

 

[xwalker]

Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Barry Church. Perhaps now Jared Green.

We have had great success with undrafted free agents. And one reason for it might be that Jerry does not exert the same level of influence over the scout's decisions on UFA's as he does in the draft room for draft picks. I believe it is more evidence that Jerry needs to just follow the scout's board on draft day...

That thought has crossed my mind. It's also possible that the scouts control the draft board and that the UDFAs are guys that a coach or coaches liked.

 

[Idgit]

It might also be that we play in an area where there are a lot of local kids to scout, so our organic network is just stronger than other teams.

Or that our coaches are more willing to play CFAs because we have too much salary tied up in a few players.

Or that we've got a reputation for playing CFAs that helps us bring in some of the best guys available each year.

Or that we don't draft as well as some other teams.

Or that the attention and prime time games that come with playing in Dallas are a draw for players looking for exposure.

Or because Jerry is willing to pay more in terms of guaranteed money.

Or it may be some of all of that. It's hard to say what the real cause is.

 

[TheSport78]

The line was bad last year. And our RB got hurt and we had no capable backup. I agree.

But there were significant injuries to the Oline dating back to training camp and throughout the season. We have since added a 1st rounder to the mix and a lot of our young guys presumably (Smith included) should have developed over the course of another year in an NFL program.

To look at the line this year and not be cautiously optimistic speaks to an agenda.



I don't think Jermey stinks and have high expectations. Same with Leary. Same with Costa.

And wait did you say Livings sucks? Did you even watch any games?



You can say the DL isn't young. But none of the guys (save RAT) is noticeably declining and going to a 4-3 could be beneficial for him.

And again we have young guys who look like they can contribute.

We need to continue to invest resources into the Dline...starting next year but to call the Dline "weak" is stupidity.

Your arguments don't stand up.

This doesn't even deserve a response. It's so laughable and "homeristic."

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Perhaps it's easier to make the team when the draft picks suck.

Not a single player left from the '08 and '09 drafts, except for Orlando Scandrick.

That doesn't mean the draft picks suck. Unless those guys from the draft are out of this league and that is not the case for all of them.

 

[DenCWBY]

Yeah, the scouts had nothing to do with where those guys were on the draft board. You should think before you type. How convienent of you not to mention the drafting of Ware, Spencer, Smith, Lee, Carter, Bryant, Claiborne, and Murray. Does Jones get the credit for them or were those picks credited to the scouts in your book?

Sure he (JJ) should get credit for these players and you can draft all the talent in the world at these "marquee" positions however they aren't worth beans if you don't manage a good organization around these players to be successful. Looking at it objectively, he's had a lot of busts' too.
50% wins is not successful in my book so out goes the credit for these players until he builds a team/coaching staff around them.
Sorry to get off the subject but... it's part of the whole picture that I see.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

Sure he (JJ) should get credit for these players and you can draft all the talent in the world at these "marquee" positions however they aren't worth beans if you don't manage a good organization around these players to be successful. Looking at it objectively, he's had a lot of busts' too.
50% wins is not successful in my book so out goes the credit for these players until he builds a team/coaching staff around them.
Sorry to get off the subject but... it's part of the whole picture that I see.

Agreed. But 50% wins is way generous:

Shante Carver
David LaFleur
Greg Ellis (over Randy Moss)
Ebenezer Ekuban
Roy Williams
Terrence Newman
Demarcus Ware
Marcus Spears
Bobby Carpenter
Felix Jones
Mike Jenkins
Dez Bryant
Tyron Smith
Mo Claiborne
+ 5 #1 picks traded away (Joey Galloway, Roy Williams)

 

[Ratmatt]

Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Barry Church. Perhaps now Jared Green.

We have had great success with undrafted free agents. And one reason for it might be that Jerry does not exert the same level of influence over the scout's decisions on UFA's as he does in the draft room for draft picks. I believe it is more evidence that Jerry needs to just follow the scout's board on draft day...

Amen!

 

[Aven8]

Tony Romo, Miles Austin, Barry Church. Perhaps now Jared Green.

We have had great success with undrafted free agents. And one reason for it might be that Jerry does not exert the same level of influence over the scout's decisions on UFA's as he does in the draft room for draft picks. I believe it is more evidence that Jerry needs to just follow the scout's board on draft day...

IMO I think we are very patient with all players we get. We give them time, and sometimes too much time, and allow them to develop. I think that's why we seem lucky.

 

[Chuck 54]

We got really lucky with Tony Romo and Miles Austin; after that, free agents line up for the Cowboys thinking the history with those two guys proves Dallas will give a free agent a legit shot, moreso than other teams. May not be true, but works in our favor.