this is absolutly the most awesome awe inspiring pictue i have ever seen

[ScipioCowboy]

Well, I've already been published, so... :

I don't know. Would a law journal publish my novel as a serial?

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Excellent point. If it's incredibly difficult to study us, then aliens won't study us.

Of course, the entire conversation (and analogy we're discussing) was built on the notion that it would be easy for them to study us. You know, the man walking by the ant pile and all. That was the whole gist.

You've spent the conversation trying to move the goal post until you've completely made it impossible to respond. The argument has come down to: "They won't study us, because it's too hard to get to us." And yet you don't get the irony of that argument.

*sigh*

The man walks by an ant pile and decides it isn't worth is time to stop and watch.

An alien civilization receives a non random electromagnetic signal from a deep part of space sent out sometime in Earth's last 70 years and decides it is of a primitive species and decides not to travel the distance to study it up close when other species are nearby.

Perfect analogy. It isn't that we are necessarily too hard to get to, its that there are other target civilizations that are easier. I think both sides are seeing irony in the other's debate points.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

I don't know. Would a law journal publish my novel as a serial?

Well I'll be damned. I had forgotten about a research project I worked on as an undergrad. So I guess I've been published too. Who wants to talk about the grey triggerfish/spiny lobster predator posturing mechanisms and prey defensive grouping techniques against attack? I promise its twice as boring as it sounds.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Well I'll be damned. I had forgotten about a research project I worked on as an undergrad. So I guess I've been published too. Who wants to talk about the grey triggerfish/spiny lobster predator posturing mechanisms and prey defensive grouping techniques against attack? I promise its twice as boring as it sounds.

I've edited and contributed content to literary publications before; however, I don't consider that the same as submitting an article and having it published as Theo did.

 

[CliffnDallas]

As far as aliens contacting Earth. I think silly as this sounds Star Trek has the right idea. In that there was no "offical" contact made till the subject was in a position to travel in deep space themselves.

I do think however life and especially intelegent life in the cosmos possibly being rare. If we did draw attention to ourselves we would be the subject of study.

As far as an advanced people not having the means to communicate with us. I would have to assume that to reach such a level of technology they would have to had progressed in a lenier fashion and would have had their "radio and TV" in their own historys and thus be familure with it even if they don't currently practice it.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

As far as aliens contacting Earth. I think silly as this sounds Star Trek has the right idea. In that there was no "offical" contact made till the subject was in a position to travel in deep space themselves.

I do think however life and especially intelegent life in the cosmos possibly being rare. If we did draw attention to ourselves we would be the subject of study.

As far as an advanced people not having the means to communicate with us. I would have to assume that to reach such a level of technology they would have to had progressed in a lenier fashion and would have had their "radio and TV" in their own historys and thus be familure with it even if they don't currently practice it.

That assumes that the intelligent life evolved in environmental conditions similar to our own. Change our atmosphere to ground level cloud cover as the steady state and our auditory and optical nerve groupings possibly evolve differently as well.

This brings up a topic that I didn't see mentioned or touched on as of yet.

Life as we know it exists in a huge variety of environments on our planet. There are bacteria trapped in the grains of solid rock that slowly eat their way through it. There are algal mats in subsurface lakes in the Arctic that have a very short life cycle. This is life at the bottom of the Marianas Trench under incredible pressure, chemosynthetic biological processes being carried out at deep sea vents, and a host of single celled organisms living in basically near boiling battery acid in surface geysers around the world.

So in a classic chicken or the egg scenario, what do you think is spring point for life? Is it that you need a relatively stable environment for life to spring from, no matter the hostile environmental factors we see it in, or do you need a very narrow range of environmental factors for life to take hold from which it can then evolve into the hostile environments?

 

[CliffnDallas]

That assumes that the intelligent life evolved in environmental conditions similar to our own. Change our atmosphere to ground level cloud cover as the steady state and our auditory and optical nerve groupings possibly evolve differently as well.

This brings up a topic that I didn't see mentioned or touched on as of yet.

Life as we know it exists in a huge variety of environments on our planet. There are bacteria trapped in the grains of solid rock that slowly eat their way through it. There are algal mats in subsurface lakes in the Arctic that have a very short life cycle. This is life at the bottom of the Marianas Trench under incredible pressure, chemosynthetic biological processes being carried out at deep sea vents, and a host of single celled organisms living in basically near boiling battery acid in surface geysers around the world.

So in a classic chicken or the egg scenario, what do you think is spring point for life? Is it that you need a relatively stable environment for life to spring from, no matter the hostile environmental factors we see it in, or do you need a very narrow range of environmental factors for life to take hold from which it can then evolve into the hostile environments?

Liquid water and a stable enviroment. Earth sit's in whats called "The Goldilocks Zone" In it's orbit. Life evolving on other worlds would be a product of it's enviroment. But for that life to develope a high level of technology there must be some universal constant. A way to manupilate objects in that enviroment for instance would mean hands or their version and so forth.

Remember nessisity is the mother of invention. We have species here on earth that may well be as "intelegent" as humans whales for instance, but due to their enviroment they have no use for tools. Yet some dolphins have been seen using rocks to open shells in the wild. Apes use tools for every thing from eating and getting at food, to warfare.

 

[theogt]

The man walks by an ant pile and decides it isn't worth is time to stop and watch.

An alien civilization receives a non random electromagnetic signal from a deep part of space sent out sometime in Earth's last 70 years and decides it is of a primitive species and decides not to travel the distance to study it up close when other species are nearby.

Perfect analogy. It isn't that we are necessarily too hard to get to, its that there are other target civilizations that are easier. I think both sides are seeing irony in the other's debate points.

So there are numerous other target civilizations and none of them can reach us or communicate with us. And this somehow lends to the notion that space travel is possible.

Got it.

 

[theogt]

I don't know. Would a law journal publish my novel as a serial?

There are bunch of them. Do a mass mailing, you might just snag one.

 

[Hoofbite]

There are bunch of them. Do a mass mailing, you might just snag one.

Mass mailing?

Do law journals not see that as a pretty questionable move?

 

[theogt]

Mass mailing?

Do law journals not see that as a pretty questionable move?

No, it's actually standard practice in the legal world. There's this whole game that's played where journals will try to snag articles early in the selection process, because they know they're being submitted to multiple journals. And then authors will sometimes pull their article if they get a better offer from a more prestigious journal.

Pretty shady overall, but it's a pretty competitive "market." There are ranking systems for journals with factors such as # of times cited, so it all gets very competitive.

 

[Hoofbite]

No, it's actually standard practice in the legal world. There's this whole game that's played where journals will try to snag articles early in the selection process, because they know they're being submitted to multiple journals. And then authors will sometimes pull their article if they get a better offer from a more prestigious journal.

Pretty shady overall, but it's a pretty competitive "market." There are ranking systems for journals with factors such as # of times cited, so it all gets very competitive.

Interesting.

I've talked to some in the scientific community who have said that it's a pretty big no-no to mass mail, if only because it wastes a lot of people's time.

 

[theogt]

Interesting.

I've talked to some in the scientific community who have said that it's a pretty big no-no to mass mail, if only because it wastes a lot of people's time.

The big difference there is that law journals are student run. These kids spend all nighters working on journals -- I can't imagine professors wanting to put up with that.

 

[Hoofbite]

The big difference there is that law journals are student run. These kids spend all nighters working on journals -- I can't imagine professors wanting to put up with that.

Ahh, I see.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

There are bunch of them. Do a mass mailing, you might just snag one.

I know you're joking, but I am sometimes surprised by the types of magazines and journals that actually publish fiction.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

So there are numerous other target civilizations and none of them can reach us or communicate with us. And this somehow lends to the notion that space travel is possible.

Got it.

There are other target civilizations that are easier for the intelligent species to contact or study, I thought that would be the obvious kicker in the scenario of a pragmatic study of other life forms. Obviously I grossly underestimated the super simplistic nature of the universe we occupy. All beings can easily understand and communicate with no issues, even one as ignorant as us that doesn't understand the mechanisms that governs 90% of the matter and energy in the known universe. Gotcha.

 

[theogt]

There are other target civilizations that are easier for the intelligent species to contact or study, I thought that would be the obvious kicker in the scenario of a pragmatic study of other life forms. Obviously I grossly underestimated the super simplistic nature of the universe we occupy. All beings can easily understand and communicate with no issues, even one as ignorant as us that doesn't understand the mechanisms that governs 90% of the matter and energy in the known universe. Gotcha.

Yeah, cause that's exactly what I said. Or not.

There are a finite number of ways to communicate. Any form of communication must exist in the physical world we know. And humans will be receptive to any such communication. Will we understand it at first? No, of course not. Could it possibly take time to decipher or understand? Yes, it could. Could we ultimately find a way to communicate with any form of life that is intelligent enough to travel space? Most certainly.