This is Feeling a Lot Like 2010

wileedog

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and your point on a parcel's disciple is a just an assumption. if parcells couldn't succeed and deal with jerry. what makes you think his disciple could?.

Well, that's why my initial qualifier was "if this team was owned by anyone other than Jerry." Any other owner would have seen what we all saw and put someone in place that could continue what Bill was doing, not take the keys to his toy back and get a yes man like Wade.

Obviously Jerry will always be the key impediment to anyone succeeding here.

Heck, I don't put the current blame for much on Garrett. He was hired by a lunatic for a job he clearly never had the skills or experience for. He's in over his head and has to deal with a terrible GM. He never had a chance here.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Well, that's why my initial qualifier was "if this team was owned by anyone other than Jerry." Any other owner would have seen what we all saw and put someone in place that could continue what Bill was doing, not take the keys to his toy back and get a yes man like Wade.

Obviously Jerry will always be the key impediment to anyone succeeding here.

Heck, I don't put the current blame for much on Garrett. He was hired by a lunatic for a job he clearly never had the skills or experience for. He's in over his head and has to deal with a terrible GM. He never had a chance here.

I don't think anybody disagrees with the fact that any other owner than jerry, and we would have seen a lot more success. that's why I say garrett with Jerry is 8-8 and without jerry he is 10-6 easily. if it wasn't for jerry, parcells would have never left.

jerry will meddle and will screw things up...he is our al davis.
 

DFWJC

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Tennessee is pretty decent. Well coached and with some good talent.
I mean, they flat out crushed the Chiefs in KC.
Add in the home field and that's why they are 3 1/2 point favorites.

I don't care how ugly it is, Dallas really needs this one though.

0-2 puts them on the brink (but not over the cliff) of killing the season entirely.
If we weren't in the NFCE it'd really be dire.

SF throttled it down after they went up by 24, so I'm not even sure we would have won even without the turnovers. But the turnovers gave us NO chance.(1-2 is survivable, but 4 is killer)

In his entire career, I've never seen Romo stink in back-to-back games...he's actually one of the most consistent QBs in the league on those terms.
Here's to hoping that trend continues, because he majorly sucked in game one.
 
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ConstantReboot

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measure of success is making a serious run at a superbowl. success is making it to the superbowl. success is winning it. if making it to the first round of playoffs and getting blown out is measured success then we really need to examine success.

parcells is a superbowl winning coach, with a great deal of success subsequent to that. ending up .500 after 4 seasons and two playoff appearances (one of them a fluke as parcells even said it) is not success.

8-8 is not success. not being able to win a crucial game is not success. garrett is not parcells. nobody is denying that.

the point is that no coach in dallas has seen anything you would consider successful since Johnson. and we have gone through a whole bunch. I wouldn't say switzer was successful, because he took a deep, superbowl ready, superbowl winning experienced team and managed to get out of their way and let the leaders of the team win it. despite him. he was the worst thing that happened to us.


not sure what your definition of success is. but what we have had since 1995 is not it. unless you have lowered your bar...and that's more sad than anything else

Of course my measure of success is the superbowl - everyone is and I assuming yours as well. But Im pointing out that Parcells has had success here as coach with less resources to play with - and that still dealing with Jerry. He created a team that would have possibly made it to the superbowl if it weren't for some mishaps along the way.Thus I would say he had some measure of success turning a team around and making it a playoff contender. As for making it to the superbowl of course, he wasn't successful. But Parcells has had success in many other things besides just winning the superbowl. Heck, Romo and Witten as still part of the team. Thus his measure of success is still exist till today.

However, I don't get the love that I see here with Garrett. Or the constant blame on Jerry for not having some kind of success that blessed us in the past. Garrett is in the authority of power to make changes happen. Yet he does not change in his ways of doing things. As of right now this team, this organization needs someone that can change things. To work with Jerry to make this happen just like Parcells did. I don't see that happening at all with Garrett.

When are we going to stop blaming Jerry for everything and really make Garrett accountable for his team? Garrett has a lot of influence on Jerry as what many of you Garrett supporters have stated. Yet he doesn't use that influence to make things happen.

I frankly do not see us succeeding with Garrett. Unless he stops being stubborn and learn how to win. Losing to the 9ers was another vindication on why Garrett just doesn't get it. Sure its all Romo's fault. But Garrett had all the power in the world to take away some of that responsibilities away from Romo and run the ball more. This has happened in the past and its going to happen again. I doubt Garrett will change his ways and he will not be coaching after this year - and if that happens its not Jerry's fault but mostly on Garrett.
 

ConstantReboot

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no denying that he revamped the organization. that's why I think he was a very good thing for us. he got the arrow pointing up. he took a bunch of losers, and made winners out of them and changed the mentality of the team. at the end of the day, when he left arrow was still pointing up. Parcells didn't come to dallas just to do that. that was part of his process. he came here to win a championship, compete, build a team that was relevant again. he didn't get a chance to finish the job. he couldn't take dealing with jerry's meddling anymore, so he left. so over his tenure, he was successful in rebuilding a team and heading them in the right direction, but the end result of the team can't be called successful because they never were able to complete the job and truly compete.

and your point on a parcel's disciple is a just an assumption. if parcells couldn't succeed and deal with jerry. what makes you think his disciple could?

and that's the whole point. NO COACH HAS SEEN SUCCESS IN DALLAS SINCE JOHNSON. success in that team truly competing for a championship. we can hang our hat on two playoff appearances, but did we really think we have a chance with Qunicy Carter? if you think we did, then may I ask you what are you smoking? and how much of it did you smoke?

moving the goals posts is lowering the bar. and that's what we have come to, in order to measure our success. lowering the bar.....

CowboysFaninDC, I don't know why you defend Garrett to the extreme here. I don't mind you speaking your opinions about him and its your rights. However, don't you think that saying that no coach has seen success here since Jimmy is not true. Like I mentioned Parcells turned this team around in less time and got them into the playoffs and brought in a wining culture. Jerry didn't stop Parcells then. What makes you think if Garrett wanted to turn this organization around why would Jerry want to stop him?

I was in this forum while Parcells was coach. He still had to deal with Jerry that he didn't approve of. But he still made this happen. Is it because Garrett is new to coaching? Maybe. Just want to know your thoughts about this.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Of course my measure of success is the superbowl - everyone is and I assuming yours as well. But Im pointing out that Parcells has had success here as coach with less resources to play with - and that still dealing with Jerry. He created a team that would have possibly made it to the superbowl if it weren't for some mishaps along the way.Thus I would say he had some measure of success turning a team around and making it a playoff contender. As for making it to the superbowl of course, he wasn't successful. But Parcells has had success in many other things besides just winning the superbowl. Heck, Romo and Witten as still part of the team. Thus his measure of success is still exist till today.

However, I don't get the love that I see here with Garrett. Or the constant blame on Jerry for not having some kind of success that blessed us in the past. Garrett is in the authority of power to make changes happen. Yet he does not change in his ways of doing things. As of right now this team, this organization needs someone that can change things. To work with Jerry to make this happen just like Parcells did. I don't see that happening at all with Garrett.

When are we going to stop blaming Jerry for everything and really make Garrett accountable for his team? Garrett has a lot of influence on Jerry as what many of you Garrett supporters have stated. Yet he doesn't use that influence to make things happen.

I frankly do not see us succeeding with Garrett. Unless he stops being stubborn and learn how to win. Losing to the 9ers was another vindication on why Garrett just doesn't get it. Sure its all Romo's fault. But Garrett had all the power in the world to take away some of that responsibilities away from Romo and run the ball more. This has happened in the past and its going to happen again. I doubt Garrett will change his ways and he will not be coaching after this year - and if that happens its not Jerry's fault but mostly on Garrett.

I think we agree on parcells. but I am also hearing double speak. we agree that parcells would have had more success if no for jerry. we even said his disciple could have had success if not for jerry. what parcells did is turn over the team completely in three years (only 7 players remained from previous regime). He got the franchise in the right direction. yet we trying to hold garrett to a different standard and different measure .

I never said garrett is equal or close to parcells. not many coaches are. but garrett has turned this team over and worse, has had to deal with a strapped cap situation. the team he inherited from wade wasn't that good and was getting older. he has turned the team over in a similar fashion and I dare to say has changed the culture of the team. the problems we have had to deal with is a lot of bad defensive investments that haven't paid off and cap strapped us.

and I don't accept the notion that he has had power to take away responsibilities from romo. that makes no sense. plus Romo is a jerry guy nd even jerry says we need to be more romo friendly (meddling) and gives him the big contract that we can't get out of. if you look at garrett's history its almost predictable. he likes to run the ball. his split on first downs is bout 45/55 and after that its driven by down and distance. very similar to he rest of the league. the problem I romo. and that's the touchy situation. this isn't college. you have to trust you QB. and you have to give him the ability to make call in the field. either romo I no as good as we all think, in which case, then you are as good as your QB or romo is good, he makes mistakes and we live with it.

I also hear you say, parcells had some success, reloadin the team and the culture and absolve him of short comings because of jerry. then say garrett has had absolute power and not absolve him because of jerry and that's double standard. I could easily argue. garrett is 8-8 with jerry nd 10-6 coach without him.

to your last point. I don't see us succeeding with garrett. I agree. but I don't see us succeeding with any other coach, under jerry. that's the bottom line. its just grass is greener on the other side. until we learn the same big dog will be p!ssing there too and same yellow spots will show up!!
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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CowboysFaninDC, I don't know why you defend Garrett to the extreme here. I don't mind you speaking your opinions about him and its your rights. However, don't you think that saying that no coach has seen success here since Jimmy is not true. Like I mentioned Parcells turned this team around in less time and got them into the playoffs and brought in a wining culture. Jerry didn't stop Parcells then. What makes you think if Garrett wanted to turn this organization around why would Jerry want to stop him?

I was in this forum while Parcells was coach. He still had to deal with Jerry that he didn't approve of. But he still made this happen. Is it because Garrett is new to coaching? Maybe. Just want to know your thoughts about this.

on the contrary I am not defending garrett to he extreme. I unlike most don't blame him to th extreme. How can you say parcells had success based on your criterias, yet ignore that garrett has had similar (albeit slightly less) success. you talk about changing culture. so both have. you talk about reloading and rebuilding a team. I think both have. is it equal to parcells? no. parcells is a HOF coach. he turned the team around. yes, but at the end he failed to reach true measure of success and all you have done to try to prove your point is move the goal post as you said, or in other words lower the bar.

I am not arguing garrett is as good or better than parcells. I think garrett has had some success in turning the franchise around. he has in some ways tougher situation to deal with and a much tougher cap situation to have to manage through. but what we are talking about is slight difference..right...parcells reached playoffs and lost. this team has been on game away from playoffs, which they would have lost even if they got there. again is garrett as good as parcel? NO. not many coaches are. the point is if parcells couldn' succeed under jerry, then who will? and what will changing garrett bring about? another 4 year delay and same end result.
 

khiladi

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that was not giving up. that was getting your arse handed to you because of lack of talent on the team. last year's defense was bad. they went two whole games without making a single stop. giving up 3rd down after 3rd down. one of the worst defenses ever and everyone agrees that this defense had no talent. perhaps a one handed Ware and hatcher were the only good parts to it. the rest were street cast offs, players cut 4 times from other teams, etc. when one of our best players is selvie, who was cut twice...that should tell you about the talent on this team.

Really, because they were still in play-off contention at that time with that defense and everybody was saying they looked like they gave up...
 

Plankton

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However, I don't know how 'Stacked' the roster was. Better than what Campo left for sure, but Flozell Adams and Andre Gurode were there when Big Bill arrived. Leaonard Davis was a Jerry free agent pickup and so was Kosier. I think Bill wanted Colombo, so one of the 5 OL in 2007 could be attributed to the Tuna.

Kosier signed with Dallas in 2006, Parcells' last season with the Cowboys.
 

AsthmaField

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Kosier signed with Dallas in 2006, Parcells' last season with the Cowboys.

Yes, I know... but as I explained I wasn't counting free agents as going towards Bill's talent acquisition. As I said, It isn't hard to go out and grab free agents. You just have to pay enough.

I realize there are some flaws in that, but for this exercise I wasn't counting them.

Also, I was responding to someone who was talking about the talent that Parcells left for Phillips in 2007, so that is the OL that I was talking about, even though Kosier got there one year earlier.
 

Plankton

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Yes, I know... but as I explained I wasn't counting free agents as going towards Bill's talent acquisition. As I said, It isn't hard to go out and grab free agents. You just have to pay enough.

I realize there are some flaws in that, but for this exercise I wasn't counting them.

Also, I was responding to someone who was talking about the talent that Parcells left for Phillips in 2007, so that is the OL that I was talking about, even though Kosier got there one year earlier.

You said that Parcells could take credit for one lineman out of the 2007 starters - Marc Colombo. Colombo was a free agent signing.

Parcells signed Kyle Kosier as a free agent the previous season, and Kosier started all 16 games that year.

Not sure what point you were trying to make. Free agency is a hard exercise - you have to identify the correct players in terms of scheme fit, and consider the cap ramifications in fitting that player into your team. It's also a much bigger deal in Dallas, where they have not drafted consistently well, and rely on free agency to fill holes that were unable to be filled in the draft. Signing Leonard Davis and Kosier were due in part to draft picks such as Stephen Peterman and Al Johnson not working out.
 

TrailBlazer

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on the contrary I am not defending garrett to he extreme. I unlike most don't blame him to th extreme. How can you say parcells had success based on your criterias, yet ignore that garrett has had similar (albeit slightly less) success. you talk about changing culture. so both have. you talk about reloading and rebuilding a team. I think both have. is it equal to parcells? no. parcells is a HOF coach. he turned the team around. yes, but at the end he failed to reach true measure of success and all you have done to try to prove your point is move the goal post as you said, or in other words lower the bar.

I am not arguing garrett is as good or better than parcells. I think garrett has had some success in turning the franchise around. he has in some ways tougher situation to deal with and a much tougher cap situation to have to manage through. but what we are talking about is slight difference..right...parcells reached playoffs and lost. this team has been on game away from playoffs, which they would have lost even if they got there. again is garrett as good as parcel? NO. not many coaches are. the point is if parcells couldn' succeed under jerry, then who will? and what will changing garrett bring about? another 4 year delay and same end result.

What success has JG had?
 

AsthmaField

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You said that Parcells could take credit for one lineman out of the 2007 starters - Marc Colombo. Colombo was a free agent signing.

Parcells signed Kyle Kosier as a free agent the previous season, and Kosier started all 16 games that year.

Not sure what point you were trying to make. Free agency is a hard exercise - you have to identify the correct players in terms of scheme fit, and consider the cap ramifications in fitting that player into your team. It's also a much bigger deal in Dallas, where they have not drafted consistently well, and rely on free agency to fill holes that were unable to be filled in the draft. Signing Leonard Davis and Kosier were due in part to draft picks such as Stephen Peterman and Al Johnson not working out.

Ah, you are correct. Yeah, truthfully Kosier was more a Parcells type OL that Jerry's (at that time) really. Leonard Davis was more Jerry's style.

Really, I felt a little funny leaving out the Free Agents because I know the coach has input there. I just didn't have the time to write out a full argument like I should have and included all personnel acquisitions. I tried to take a short cut and used one and none of the others. Good catch, thanks.

Well, My father used to say that consistency in a debate is crucial... I guess I blew that one, lol.

He also said never F with a plankton, which I now know.
 
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