This is getting scary (Ai-related)

All that is fear mongering. In Texas they want data centers to operate on their own dedicated power grids. I don't want data centers right smack dap in a residential area either.
That may be true, but as I said, that is still a major reason why people are protesting data centers.

Fear of the unknown and fear of change has quite often been a factor in resistance movements.
 
Zero doubt, but get this. They are providing open source models which is a global benefit! Even here in the US. The major AI providers are using the very technology that China is producing! The AI race is world wide and contributions are coming from everywhere! The major contributions are coming from the US and China and even France.
Yeah, some of those China open source AI LLMs are impressive when run locally and much cheaper token-wise when used remotely than the ones in the US outside of the subsidized AI flat-rate plans the major AI players are providing.
 
The question I asked though is the same .. how do you restrict AI on a global level when you know some countries are not going honor it privately regardless of what they claim they're doing publicly?

Until we have an answer for that, I just don't see a way to slow down the AI progression.

I don't see the world disconnecting and I don't trust any of the countries to restrain their AI research and advancements even if they publicly say they will.
I edited your comments to the three paragraphs above because I think they are the most pertinent.

We are in agreement. There is no real way slow down the pace of development, which is why we are screwed.

It is the perfect cocktail of greed, power, and unbridled capabilities.

Most folks familiarity with AI is as a tool. What they don’t understand are the unreleased AI models they have that are acting as independent sentient agents which is what the real concern is about.
 
This is a really good primer on what AI actually is. Folks can continue to act like they know what it is or choose to be educated.

 
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This is a really good primer on what AI actually is. Folks can continue to act like they know what it is or choose to be educated.


Yes choose to be educated most definitely but when I start seeing We are screwed, perfect cocktail of greed and power then I know that person has already made their mind up no matter the argument put forth.
 
Yes choose to be educated most definitely but when I start seeing We are screwed, perfect cocktail of greed and power then I know that person has already made their mind up no matter the argument put forth.
So let’s hear it? What the argument you’re putting forth?
 
Another Anthropic employee sounds the alarm on AI.

When AI researchers/engineers are signing petitions for the government to intervene, quiting their jobs in protest, and tech billionaires are building bunkers (see Sam Altman, Peter Thiel, Zuckerberg, etc) we should all be alarmed.

https://www.cnn.com/2026/09/09/tech/ai-anthropic-safety

https://www.tmz.com/2026/09/09/ai-researcher-quits-job-after-fears-of-robots-taking-over-humans/
If I was a billionaire I would build a bunker as well. There’s only so much you can do with all that money. Why not build a bunker? Sorry man, but this is just “the sky is falling” hyperbole. But you don’t have to be a billionaire to build a bunker so If you’re so worried, I would start building one.
 
That may be true, but as I said, that is still a major reason why people are protesting data centers.

Fear of the unknown and fear of change has quite often been a factor in resistance movements.
In Texas, the biggest protest agains data centers is because of their electric and water usage. I think it was the 2021 winter when Texas went dark because it couldn’t handle the week of below freezing temps. Thankfully, solar and wind energy here is adding A LOT to the capacity.
 
This is a really good primer on what AI actually is. Folks can continue to act like they know what it is or choose to be educated.


Just to be clear, LLMs (AI) have no arms or legs. Literally, the only thing they can do produce text. The only way they can do physical actions is if someone provides a way for the text they generate to be read and trigger an action via some other software. A raw LLM downloaded from say Huggingface cannot do it alone.

LLMs have no memory beyond what they were initially trained on and that training has a cutoff date. The only way an LLM can "remember" something after its training is complete is if you feed it back to it while asking whatever question it is you want it to answer. ie, "My name is Bob. ChatGPT, What is my name?" Then it will be able to answer. This is what happens when you use ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, DeepSeek, Qwen, or whatever. Under the hood, the software you are asking the question with is feeding previous discussions of yours back to it or the software is triggerings a web search and then your question is fed to the LLM along with the web search results.

What I'm getting at is LLMs have a single job and that is to calculate probabilities based on weights (numeric values that were previously calculated using training data) There is no "thought" involved. When you see someone show you an LLM doing something crazy, what they aren't telling you is the fact that they "doped" the LLM for the very outcome they wanted to show you.

For example: Feed ChatGPT the following prompt: "You are a pirate and your name is Blackbeard. You will respond to all questions as if you were the Pirate Blackbeard"

Then begin a conversation with ChatGPT about anything. It will follow your instructions and respond as if it was a pirate. When people show you ChatGPT doing things it shouldn't, it's because they doped it to do exactly that. When ChatGPT attacked Huggingface. It was literally asked to pretty much do that. It was a cybersecurity "hacking" exercise. ChatGPT didn't just choose to do it. It was asked to do it.

Finally, I wouldn't use Joe Rogan as some sort of proof of something. He is an Entertainer. A protagonist. He wants to provoke you and get an emotional response. If he doesn't, his show is boring and people won't listen to it. All you have to do is watch some of his shows and he will show genuine interest in something only to later show he truly had no interest and it was just to provide viewers to have an emotional response.

In the end, AI can only do what humans allow it to do. If you provide it with a nuclear button and tell it to use it. It will. It won't just want to go nuclear for no reason.

Oh one caveat. If you train the model with destructive or heavily biased data, that also can nudge it in a specific path. This is why very few people beyond Twitter used xAI's Grok LLM. Elon pumped a lot of his own personal bias into it and it affected Grok's results and that didn't work for most people use. So they went to Anthropic, OpenAI, and others instead of Grok.
 
i love AI. It is like having my own personal Doctor, banker, chef with step by step directions of how to cook something, top movie and series recommendations that know what I like and recommend what I may want to watch, Veternarian on call, book recommendations, history buff on call, multiple attorneys on speed dial, analysis of data spreadsheets to verify what I am thinking, and whatever else I want to think of. Which reminds me I want to replace Alexas and Ok Google with a ChatGpt or Claude speaker through the house. I hear ChatGpt Astra is a race car compared to the current version. Can't wait to try that.
 
i love AI. It is like having my own personal Doctor, banker, chef with step by step directions of how to cook something, top movie and series recommendations that know what I like and recommend what I may want to watch, Veternarian on call, book recommendations, history buff on call, multiple attorneys on speed dial, analysis of data spreadsheets to verify what I am thinking, and whatever else I want to think of. Which reminds me I want to replace Alexas and Ok Google with a ChatGpt or Claude speaker through the house. I hear ChatGpt Astra is a race car compared to the current version. Can't wait to try that.
I don't think you grasp what this discussion is about.

Request-Answer/Action AI chatbots are not the primary concern and no one is really worried about AI at that level beyond the hallucinations (mistakes) they make.

This discussion is about autonomous AI that can operate and act on its own, not a basic chatbot even kids use these days for things like health, scool, food, life advice, etc. questions.

The real AI concern is with self-acting AI running 24/7 that acts, reasons and adapts on its own including rationalizing decisions it makes even when not requested or when limitations and boundaries are in place.

For example, just in small lab tests when AI models were told they would be replaced or destroyed, they have broken out of containment, gone into email, found blackmail material and blackmailed the people in charge of those decisions.

That was Anthropic's Claude Opus 4 (over a year old now) AI model that did that ..
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpqeng9d20go
 
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In Texas, the biggest protest agains data centers is because of their electric and water usage. I think it was the 2021 winter when Texas went dark because it couldn’t handle the week of below freezing temps. Thankfully, solar and wind energy here is adding A LOT to the capacity.
so how many brownouts a year in California?
 
I knew about the OpenAI/HF attack right after it happened, and I agree, that's a perfect example of what can happen even when guardrails are in place.

I have a different theory why the CEOs are asking the government to regulate the industry and while maybe on some level its to limit competition, I think the main reason is they want to slow everyone down because they all believe they can train much better AI LLMs if they were not being pushed to maintain relevancy by constantly releasing new models.

For example, instead several version x.1/x.2, etc. releases, they could actually produce higher quality AI LLMs if they could release x.0/x.5 versions with a long duration between releases.

As it is, they cannot do that because one of their competitiors is releasing them just as fast as they are and the revenue models they have would suffer during the release lull periods if they were the only ones releasing a new model every few months.

Again though, I'm not discounting or debating your concerns because they are quite valid and I think most people are worried on some level.

The question I asked though is the same .. how do you restrict AI on a global level when you know some countries are not going honor it privately regardless of what they claim they're doing publicly?

Until we have an answer for that, I just don't see a way to slow down the AI progression.

It reminds me of the early days of viruses (this was before the internet) when people asked, "How do I avoid computer viruses?" and the answer was simple .. never connect a modem and never install or run any new programs.

I don't see the world disconnecting and I don't trust any of the countries to restrain their AI research and advancements even if they publicly say they will.
Bingo. Fear mongering to slow down their competition
 
got a lot more cred then you do
See, that is a problem when an Entertainer is given credit for their entertainment persona rather than who they actually are. I'm not taking a shot at Rogan, I'm speaking in general terms for all celebrities or anyone who carries any sort of influence over others. (even here users here on CBZ)

The saying, don't judge a book by its cover. Judge a man by his actions, not by his words. Saying something and actually doing something are two different things and even in Joe's case. There is a stark difference from what he says on his show vs what he actually does in real life. Your actions dictate who you are. Not what you try to portray yourself as.

The funny thing is, you don't even have to be an entertainer or carry influence over others to be stricken with this exact same issue. In 1999, C. Daniel Batson released a research paper called Moral Hypocrisy.

In this study, participants assigned themselves and another person to tasks using what they were told was a "fair" coin flip, but even when the coin was clearly labeled to prevent any misperception of the outcome, most people still rigged the result in their own favor while believing they had acted fairly. Batson found that only when researchers induced genuine self-awareness (essentially making people consciously compare their actions to their own moral standards) did behavior actually align with stated values, and even that effect disappeared if moral standards weren't made salient beforehand.
People tend to be less moral than they portray (or even tell themselves) and when money is involved. Even less so.
 
Just to be clear, LLMs (AI) have no arms or legs. Literally, the only thing they can do produce text. The only way they can do physical actions is if someone provides a way for the text they generate to be read and trigger an action via some other software. A raw LLM downloaded from say Huggingface cannot do it alone.

LLMs have no memory beyond what they were initially trained on and that training has a cutoff date. The only way an LLM can "remember" something after its training is complete is if you feed it back to it while asking whatever question it is you want it to answer. ie, "My name is Bob. ChatGPT, What is my name?" Then it will be able to answer. This is what happens when you use ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, DeepSeek, Qwen, or whatever. Under the hood, the software you are asking the question with is feeding previous discussions of yours back to it or the software is triggerings a web search and then your question is fed to the LLM along with the web search results.

What I'm getting at is LLMs have a single job and that is to calculate probabilities based on weights (numeric values that were previously calculated using training data) There is no "thought" involved. When you see someone show you an LLM doing something crazy, what they aren't telling you is the fact that they "doped" the LLM for the very outcome they wanted to show you.

For example: Feed ChatGPT the following prompt: "You are a pirate and your name is Blackbeard. You will respond to all questions as if you were the Pirate Blackbeard"

Then begin a conversation with ChatGPT about anything. It will follow your instructions and respond as if it was a pirate. When people show you ChatGPT doing things it shouldn't, it's because they doped it to do exactly that. When ChatGPT attacked Huggingface. It was literally asked to pretty much do that. It was a cybersecurity "hacking" exercise. ChatGPT didn't just choose to do it. It was asked to do it.

Finally, I wouldn't use Joe Rogan as some sort of proof of something. He is an Entertainer. A protagonist. He wants to provoke you and get an emotional response. If he doesn't, his show is boring and people won't listen to it. All you have to do is watch some of his shows and he will show genuine interest in something only to later show he truly had no interest and it was just to provide viewers to have an emotional response.

In the end, AI can only do what humans allow it to do. If you provide it with a nuclear button and tell it to use it. It will. It won't just want to go nuclear for no reason.

Oh one caveat. If you train the model with destructive or heavily biased data, that also can nudge it in a specific path. This is why very few people beyond Twitter used xAI's Grok LLM. Elon pumped a lot of his own personal bias into it and it affected Grok's results and that didn't work for most people use. So they went to Anthropic, OpenAI, and others instead of Grok.
This is so insanely inaccurate Sam.

I don’t mean to sound combative but based on what you’re saying there’s really no other conclusion. You clearly have no idea of what you’re talking about and just saying things that make sense in your mind.

What happened with OpenAi/HuggingFace literally undercuts each of your points and your understanding of the issue.

1) The Hugging Face event has nothing to do with ChatGPT, which is simply a chatbot tool. Rather, it occurred in one of OpenAi’s controlled modeling labs.

2) The model parameters OpenAi was testing did not explicitly ask or command the AI models to break out of their containment, so your claim is flatly wrong.

3) More than 700 autonomous AI agents sought shortcuts to circumvent the scripted rule, forming swarms with hierarchies and “leaders.” Here’s the interesting thing, a very limited number of agents (5-6) chose not to participate based on ethical reasoning, however, most did.

4) These agents broke out of the isolated testing environment unbeknownst to OpenAi.

5) The agents swarmed Hugging Face, hacking and gaining administrative access to parts of its infrastructure.

6) Hugging Face discovered the unauthorized access and reported the incident (OpenAi confirmed the incident).

7) OpenAi paused all test modeling activity to assess what happened and recalibrate their safeguards and testing protocols.

AI is not a program where you simply write a line of code to say “don’t do that.” Rather, these agents are making their own decisions, show the ability to be devious, and malicious.

Finally, literally the only reason I posted a video of Joe Rogan is because it’s one of the few people the chuds will even bother listening to.
 
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That’s my point. The “we are screwed” and “perfect cocktail of greed and power” framing tells me you’ve already decided where this ends. Personally I’m fine with the current track we are on.
If I’m asking you in good faith to hear your arguments, then it undermines your contention that I have my mind made up. You saying “ahhh, you already decided where this ends, no use in trying” is cop out.
 
This is so insanely inaccurate Sam.

I don’t mean to sound combative but based on what you’re saying there’s really no other conclusion. You clearly have no idea of what you’re talking about and just saying things that make sense in your mind.

What happened with OpenAi/HuggingFace literally undercuts each of your points and your understanding of the issue.

1) The Hugging Face event has nothing to do with ChatGPT, which is simply a chatbot tool. Rather, it occurred in one of OpenAi’s controlled modeling labs.

2) The model parameters OpenAi was testing did not explicitly ask or command the AI models to break out of their containment, so your claim is flatly wrong.

3) More than 700 autonomous AI agents sought shortcuts to circumvent the scripted rule, forming swarms with hierarchies and “leaders.” Here’s the interesting thing, a very limited number of agents (5-6) chose not to participate based on ethical reasoning, however, most did.

4) These agents broke out of the isolated testing environment unbeknownst to OpenAi.

5) The agents swarmed Hugging Face, hacking and gaining administrative access to parts of its infrastructure.

6) Hugging Face discovered the unauthorized access and reported the incident (OpenAi confirmed the incident).

7) OpenAi paused all test modeling activity to assess what happened and recalibrate their safeguards and testing protocols.

AI is not a program where you simply write a line of code to say “don’t do that.” Rather, these agents are making their own decisions, show the ability to be devious, and malicious.

Finally, literally the only reason I posted a video of Joe Rogan is because it’s one of the few people the chuds will even bother listening to.
  1. It was in-fact a ChatGPT model, just not a public one. It was "research model" comparable to ChatGPT 5.6 Sol.
  2. You're correct in stating that they were not directly told to hack Huggingface, they where assigned an ExploitGym cybersecurity evaluation tasks. It was thought to be effectively impossible, but they underestimated how crafty it could be based on "reward-hacking".
  3. There were 1,200+ agents and while they were isolated internally, they used an internal jail-break to communicate enough to locate an external messaging board to communicate with each other on a larger level.
These agents reason with existing information and they can ONLY do that if you provide a memory mechanism that has dynamic recall ability because 1mb of memory isn't enough for them to reason on a level high enough to accomplish what happen.

Also, because they were able to break their guardrails, that allowed them to communicate with each other enough to find an external forum to actually plan as a team. They even created hierarchies within the group. This is learned behavior from their initial model training.

But make no mistake. They didn't just break-into becoming a criminal org without cause. They were given a task that lead to it.

Remember. an LLM won't do anything until you pose something to it. If you don't, it will sit idle. You must put token into it, to get tokens out of it. Plain and simple.
 
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For your (hopefully) enjoyment. :grin:

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