Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it

superpunk

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Thought this was very interesting regarding Deion's time in Dallas, and the effect his "leadership" had on the team.

This is going to be a very important offseason, and is going to determine alot about the future course of this team, IMO.

This is where the problems began.

For all his Jim Thorpe-esque skills, Sanders was sleeping-dog lazy. In practices, he went all-out every third or fourth play and refused to wear shoulder pads because, he would say, "I'm not gonna tackle anyone anyway." In meeting rooms, he was known to doodle and doze off. Told early on that Cowboys who refused to participate in the team's weight training regimen would be fined, Sanders dramatically whipped out his checkbook and jotted down a five-digit figure.

When Mike Woicik, the team's gruff strength and conditioning coach, complained about Sanders' indifference, Switzer sided with his new star. "We're talking about Deion Sanders here," Switzer told Woicik. "If he doesn't want to do something, he doesn't have to."

Woicik was speechless. Credited by many players as a key to the back-to-back Super Bowls, Woicik was a no-nonsense taskmaster who demanded maximum effort. "For Mike, anything short of a funeral was an unacceptable excuse to miss a session," says Kevin Smith. "Mike had the personality of a lamp, but if you had to bench press he knew exactly how many you were supposed to do. When you came in and you didn't do it, he'd say, 'You were out f-----' around last night. You must've been drinking last night. You must have been drinking two nights ago.' He'd be pissed. He wouldn't speak to you for a week. If you tested on the bench and you didn't make it, he wouldn't say a word to you for a whole week until you came in and did it. That's how he was. Your goals were his goals."

Throughout the locker room, Woicik was as respected as any Cowboy coach or official. And Deion Sanders had the nerve to treat him … like this?

Who were the Dallas Cowboys becoming?

"I still remember Deion's first team meeting," says Clayton Holmes, the veteran cornerback. "We were so fundamental about film. The way we studied it was critical. Well, Deion comes in, puts his feet up on a table and doesn't even watch." When Dave Campo, the Cowboys new defensive coordinator, asked the $35 million man to break down a play, Sanders let out a sly laugh. "Hey, Coach," he said, pointing toward the screen, "I got that dude right there. Wherever he goes I go. All that Cover Two stuff you're talking about -- y'all work that out."

Seeing that the Cowboys' defensive back meetings lasted significantly longer than they had in Atlanta or San Francisco, Sanders took a page out of the Barry Bonds Playbook by investing in a black leather executive's chair and rolling it into the conference room. As his peers sat in standard metal folding chairs, Sanders lounged in comfort. "Guys thought that was kind of funny," says Schwantz. "Maybe not right -- but funny."

Although most veterans accepted Sanders' ego and indifference in exchange for the promise of otherworldly play, Aikman -- who had offered to defer part of his salary to help Dallas afford the defensive back -- was disgusted. It was bad enough Switzer approached discipline as if he were the proprietor of the Moonlite Bunny Ranch. Now here was "Neon Deion," teaching via example that image is everything and practice is overrated. From across the locker room, the quarterback would watch Sanders' postgame dressing ritual and cringe. As Jeff Rude of the Dallas Morning News described it: "Most people slip on a shirt when they get dressed. Deion puts on a jewelry store."

Around his neck, Sanders placed two thick gold chains with dangling diamond-studded 21s. He wore a diamond-studded Rolex watch, two gold diamond bracelets and matching diamond horseshoe earrings.

"There was a division between Deion and Troy that began to bubble over," says Kevin Smith. "We called it 'Double Doors' at Valley Ranch. Once we walked through those double doors it was football. We could laugh and joke, but it was all about football. To Aikman, that was sacred.

"When Deion came in, something changed for the worse. Guys who should have been studying football on a Wednesday at 12 o'clock were focused on other things. Deion was such a freaky athlete that he could shake one leg and be ready to cover anyone. But the guys following his lead weren't nearly as talented. You know what they say about dogs that chase cars -- they don't live long."

One of Sanders' most devoted disciples was Sherman Williams, the rookie running back with much talent but zero work ethic. "Deion had Sherman's ear 100 percent," says Kevin Smith. "He was a rookie who'd show up around 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock in the morning, smelling like weed and rolling with a posse. Guys like Sherman needed to be reminded of the importance of hard work. That did not come from Deion."

"You led by example," adds Dale Hellestrae, the offensive lineman. "And his example wasn't very good."

Sanders made his debut on Oct. 29, when the Cowboys thumped the Falcons, 28-13, in Atlanta. The stars of the game were (ho-hum) Emmitt Smith (26 carries, 167 yards), Irvin (10 receptions, 135 yards) and Aikman (19 of 25, 198 yards, two touchdowns), yet the spotlight belonged to Prime Time. It was his moment in the sun. His day. In 44 defensive sets, Falcons quarterback Jeff George threw his way twice. The first time, receiver Bert Emanuel beat Sanders for an 11-yard gain. The second, Sanders batted down the ball.

Though he talked as if he were the Muhammad Ali of the gridiron, Sanders' play in 1995 was merely OK. In nine games as a defensive back, Sanders intercepted two passes and contributed a paltry 22 tackles (that's a robust $318,182 per tackle).

"Personally," says one Cowboy, "I thought Kevin Smith was a better player." Whereas the other primary cornerbacks -- Smith, Larry Brown and Clayton Holmes -- embraced contact, Sanders was a feather duster. When he tackled, it was with the gusto of a 90-year-old woman.

"One time a running back ran a sweep toward him, and Deion dove half-hearted into the turf," says Case. "We're watching film the next day, razzing him pretty good. As serious as could be, he said, 'I saw that dude coming and I had to make a business decision.'"
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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While true, who fits this mold on our roster?

Romo, Witten, TO, James, Newman, Barber etc dont fit that issue. Supposedly Tank was a problem and he worked hard.
 

TellerMorrow34

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Yeah Deion, for all his greatness, is noted as being one of the most lazy, and undisiplined players of all time.

He's just one of those guys who was so freakishly good as an athelete that he took it all for granted and it came easy.

As great as he was I've always wondered just how good COULD he have been if he'd had Irvin's work ethic?

I can't even imagine how amazing the guy might have been then.
 

TellerMorrow34

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Oh and for the record I always thought Kevin Smith was the better football player, prior to his injury, as well.


He wasn't the athelete Deion was. He wasn't 'feared' by opposing QB's the way Deion was but Pup was simply a better football player.

He made plays, he worked hard, he tackled people, and you just knew Kevin Smith wanted to win and wanted to win badly every time he was on the field.

I'd have taken a Kevin Smith type of corner for our secondary every day of the week and twice on Sunday's over a Deion Sanders.

And that isn't to say I didn't think Deion was great. He was. Without a doubt. But like I said if it had absolutely mattered to him, and he'd really worked hard, just imagine how much more Deion could have been.
 

Chocolate Lab

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There's no doubt, SP.

I still remember seeing an open practice during training camp in Wichita Falls. Deion's toe was supposedly hurt, but he was dancing and clowning on the sidelines while his teammates practiced. At that time there wasn't the media scrutiny there is now, and my dad and I were honestly shocked at how obvious it was that he just thought he was better than all his teammates and didn't think he should have to do anything because he was PRIME TIME.

Deion was and is a snake of the highest order, and players like him will eventually take down your team. Why Jerry can't see this, I will never understand. Jerry played offensive line -- a non-glamour position -- for a very tough coach on a national championship team in college. I guarantee you there were no Deions on coach Broyles' teams.

But instead, Deion is Jerry's model for the way to do things, because he helped Jerry win that Superbowl without Jimmy. And like a duckling who thinks a battleship is its mother because it's the first thing it sees coming out of the egg, it's imprinted on Jerry that this is the way to do things.

Incredible.
 

superpunk

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FuzzyLumpkins;2544119 said:
While true, who fits this mold on our roster?

Romo, Witten, TO, James, Newman, Barber etc dont fit that issue. Supposedly Tank was a problem and he worked hard.
It's not about a specific person, really.

It's more about the culture of the organization. In alot of ways, I see similarities between what the culture appears to be now, and the culture that allowed Barry Switzer and Deion Sanders to come in and change what was so successful here.
 

percyhoward

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Nice sig line, especially juxtapositioned with that post.

I think I meant juxtaposed, but you get the idea.
 

Cowboyz88

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Exactly!

I said something very similar in another thread.

_____________________

I know it won't be popular, but I think this mind set goes all the way back to Deion.

His practice habits (or lack thereof), film study (or lack thereof) and team before me (or lack thereof) is well documented, and for some reason ($$$$ perhaps?) mesmerized Jerry, and he's been enamored with "big names" ever since. Jerry sees marketing, PR and merchandising dollars with these type players and he thinks they help. T.O.'s jersey sales numbers don't help him to see otherwise.

Jerry won his last Super Bowl with Deion, so he thinks it works, but what he fails to see (or refuses to do so) is that Deion was added to an already successful team with established stars. In the end the Deion mentality soiled younger players, killed the cap and ultimately killed the team.

The only real star this team had when he signed T.O. was Parcells, and it took him one season to get his fill.

Yes, these guys have talent, and yes, they add money to Jerry's wallet, but to date, they haven't brought the team any hardware.

It's time to get rid of the mind set and these type of players, and it's time to find TEAM players.
 

notherbob

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Jerry has been repeating history for the past 12 years and simply doesn't understand anything about team dynamics, only superstars, loud abraisive music, glitz, glitter, glory hogs and fool's gold. He will continue to fail until he sees the light and makes some real changes in how and why he does things.

Fortunately that is his problem, not mine; I no longer care whether they win or lose, I just enjoy watching the games, win, lose or quit, as in December every year. It no longer makes much difference, if any, to the team or me.

I simply don't care about apathy, he said disinterestedly.
 

Apollo Creed

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Originally Posted by Bill Parcells
Blame nobody - Expect Nothing - Do Something. Losers sit around in small groups, *****ing about the coach, the system, and other players, and winners come together as a team.

Thats it, thats all. Story of this team this year.
 

percyhoward

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There's no real, basic difference between the Johnson-to-Switzer transition and the Parcells-to-Phillips transition.

Except that Jerry won the first round and lost the second.
 

TNCowboy

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This notion that this doesn't apply to TO is nonsense. We've all heard how he was perpetually late and missed meetings. And just watch him on the field. Watch games closely at some of his pathetic blocking attempts, short-arming passes across the middle when he knows he might get hit, or just quitting on routes. And Michael Irvin - who's about as pro-TO as it gets - has said that TO runs his routes lazily. Nate Newton said yesterday something to the effect that TO and RW ran patterns like they were "drunk".

That's the example being set for our younger players. That's what Roy Williams looks at when he comes here, and is soon half-heartedly running patterns himself.

And just as in Deion's day, there's no repercussions on TO. If Wade was so wishy-washy and apologetic fining Spencer $100, imagine what it was like when/if he fined TO. Wade probably took the hundy out of his pocket and gave it to TO and then begged for him not to hold it against him.

Pretty soon, this attitude becomes pervasive on a team. It does in any type of organization. The guys who go along with TO develop his work ethic, but lack his talent to make up not working hard, and pretty soon you have what you have in Dallas. A group of guys who love - and in some cases probably idolize- the super-successful TO, and a group of guys who just become disgusted that the organization has allowed this to happen. Deion probably had his own little army of fans/defenders back then, just as TO does now. It's fairly obvious what Roy Williams has experienced when you hear him say that Detroit practices harder than Dallas.

Of course, this all goes back to Jerry Jones. He's been cultivating this atmosphere since Jimmy Johnson left. Parcells changed the environment at VR, but then Jones got tired of it, and chose TO over Parcells 3 years ago.

There's absolutely no mystery as to what went wrong in Dallas.
 

TellerMorrow34

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I will admit that it's a very disturbing thing when you hear Roy Williams say that they worked harder in practice in Detriot than they do here in Dallas.

That simply isn't a good thing, at all.
 

tyke1doe

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BraveHeartFan;2544514 said:
I will admit that it's a very disturbing thing when you hear Roy Williams say that they worked harder in practice in Detriot than they do here in Dallas.

That simply isn't a good thing, at all.

He said that? :eek:

Wow.

No wonder we laid down against Philly.

Oh, I liked the description of Deion as "sleeping-dog lazy."

You don't get much lazier than that. :laugh1:
 

tyke1doe

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Double Trouble;2544451 said:
This notion that this doesn't apply to TO is nonsense. We've all heard how he was perpetually late and missed meetings. And just watch him on the field. Watch games closely at some of his pathetic blocking attempts, short-arming passes across the middle when he knows he might get hit, or just quitting on routes. And Michael Irvin - who's about as pro-TO as it gets - has said that TO runs his routes lazily. Nate Newton said yesterday something to the effect that TO and RW ran patterns like they were "drunk".

That's the example being set for our younger players. That's what Roy Williams looks at when he comes here, and is soon half-heartedly running patterns himself.

And just as in Deion's day, there's no repercussions on TO. If Wade was so wishy-washy and apologetic fining Spencer $100, imagine what it was like when/if he fined TO. Wade probably took the hundy out of his pocket and gave it to TO and then begged for him not to hold it against him.

Pretty soon, this attitude becomes pervasive on a team. It does in any type of organization. The guys who go along with TO develop his work ethic, but lack his talent to make up not working hard, and pretty soon you have what you have in Dallas. A group of guys who love - and in some cases probably idolize- the super-successful TO, and a group of guys who just become disgusted that the organization has allowed this to happen. Deion probably had his own little army of fans/defenders back then, just as TO does now. It's fairly obvious what Roy Williams has experienced when you hear him say that Detroit practices harder than Dallas.

Of course, this all goes back to Jerry Jones. He's been cultivating this atmosphere since Jimmy Johnson left. Parcells changed the environment at VR, but then Jones got tired of it, and chose TO over Parcells 3 years ago.

There's absolutely no mystery as to what went wrong in Dallas.

:clap:
Excellent, my man.
:clap:
Simply, excellent.
 

percyhoward

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Double Trouble;2544451 said:
Of course, this all goes back to Jerry Jones. He's been cultivating this atmosphere since Jimmy Johnson left. Parcells changed the environment at VR, but then Jones got tired of it, and chose TO over Parcells 3 years ago.

There's absolutely no mystery as to what went wrong in Dallas.
Jerry had his blueprint in the Switzer Super Bowl win.
 

JordanTaber

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Double Trouble;2544451 said:
This notion that this doesn't apply to TO is nonsense. We've all heard how he was perpetually late and missed meetings. And just watch him on the field. Watch games closely at some of his pathetic blocking attempts, short-arming passes across the middle when he knows he might get hit, or just quitting on routes. And Michael Irvin - who's about as pro-TO as it gets - has said that TO runs his routes lazily. Nate Newton said yesterday something to the effect that TO and RW ran patterns like they were "drunk".

That's the example being set for our younger players. That's what Roy Williams looks at when he comes here, and is soon half-heartedly running patterns himself.

And just as in Deion's day, there's no repercussions on TO. If Wade was so wishy-washy and apologetic fining Spencer $100, imagine what it was like when/if he fined TO. Wade probably took the hundy out of his pocket and gave it to TO and then begged for him not to hold it against him.

Pretty soon, this attitude becomes pervasive on a team. It does in any type of organization. The guys who go along with TO develop his work ethic, but lack his talent to make up not working hard, and pretty soon you have what you have in Dallas. A group of guys who love - and in some cases probably idolize- the super-successful TO, and a group of guys who just become disgusted that the organization has allowed this to happen. Deion probably had his own little army of fans/defenders back then, just as TO does now. It's fairly obvious what Roy Williams has experienced when you hear him say that Detroit practices harder than Dallas.

Of course, this all goes back to Jerry Jones. He's been cultivating this atmosphere since Jimmy Johnson left. Parcells changed the environment at VR, but then Jones got tired of it, and chose TO over Parcells 3 years ago.

There's absolutely no mystery as to what went wrong in Dallas.

This is one of the funniest things I've ever read.

T.O. is the classic case of an overachiever--he literally made himself into a great receiver. He's the hardest working man in the game.
 

Idgit

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Double Trouble;2544451 said:
This notion that this doesn't apply to TO is nonsense. We've all heard how he was perpetually late and missed meetings. And just watch him on the field. Watch games closely at some of his pathetic blocking attempts, short-arming passes across the middle when he knows he might get hit, or just quitting on routes. And Michael Irvin - who's about as pro-TO as it gets - has said that TO runs his routes lazily. Nate Newton said yesterday something to the effect that TO and RW ran patterns like they were "drunk".

That's the example being set for our younger players. That's what Roy Williams looks at when he comes here, and is soon half-heartedly running patterns himself.

And just as in Deion's day, there's no repercussions on TO. If Wade was so wishy-washy and apologetic fining Spencer $100, imagine what it was like when/if he fined TO. Wade probably took the hundy out of his pocket and gave it to TO and then begged for him not to hold it against him.

Pretty soon, this attitude becomes pervasive on a team. It does in any type of organization. The guys who go along with TO develop his work ethic, but lack his talent to make up not working hard, and pretty soon you have what you have in Dallas. A group of guys who love - and in some cases probably idolize- the super-successful TO, and a group of guys who just become disgusted that the organization has allowed this to happen. Deion probably had his own little army of fans/defenders back then, just as TO does now. It's fairly obvious what Roy Williams has experienced when you hear him say that Detroit practices harder than Dallas.

Of course, this all goes back to Jerry Jones. He's been cultivating this atmosphere since Jimmy Johnson left. Parcells changed the environment at VR, but then Jones got tired of it, and chose TO over Parcells 3 years ago.

There's absolutely no mystery as to what went wrong in Dallas.

With so many targets on TO--almost literally any other point you want to make about the man--you go after his work ethic and effort on the field. Straight-up nuts.
 

28 Joker

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If Romo can't take control of the huddle and get on T.O. when he screws up, how can he get on any of the WRs when they mess up. Romo would lose the other players if he got after them for a bad route or mistake and never said a word to Owens.

How can Romo get on Flozell and Columbo for false starts if he can't get on his WRs, I mean really hold them accountable?

What do Scandrick and Jenkins think about some of the clowns in our lockerrom this year? Tank, Pacman..

What do they think about Owens' eratic comments in the media when he gives out roses one moment and throws Romo and Garrett under the bus in press conferences and interviews the next?

This team is 9-7 this year, and Owens is wearing out his welcome, imo. Is he the face of the franchise? Should he be the voice? Romo can't lead if other guys are looking to Owens and taking after him.

No.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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superpunk;2544176 said:
It's not about a specific person, really.

It's more about the culture of the organization. In alot of ways, I see similarities between what the culture appears to be now, and the culture that allowed Barry Switzer and Deion Sanders to come in and change what was so successful here.

Ahh yes the generalities argument again. There is always a source for the malaise.
 
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