TLH: Emmitt vs. Barry, a Favorite Debate

[DFWJC]

From 1994 - 1998 (Sander's last 5 seasons before he retired) in the post Run-and-Shoot era when the Lions starting using TEs and Fullbacks, Sanders averaged 1696 yards rushing per season.

My study of exactly one Lions - Cowboys game (1994) shows Barry Sanders grinding out a paltry 194 yards on 40 carries. He runs behind a fullback much of the game. I also see him hitting the hole almost immediately on most plays.

Sanders numbers from the Run-and-Shoot era weren't as good. So you are correct Hostile in that a FB sure helps!

Another interesting metric -- Emitt Smith averaged less than 4 yards per carry 6 time in his career. Sanders averaged less than 4 yards per career 0 times.

Thank You

Some have this crazy stereotype of Sanders that says he would not hit a hole. The guy had huge thighs and clip after clip shows him breaking tackles. He was clearly no bulldozer--and would have been a moron to be so, given his outerworldly elusive running skills--but he absolutely could do the job when needed.

I won't go down the road of comparing Emmitt and Sanders if it means running either of them down. But hearing some say "they would not have Sanders on my team" is almost football card revoking material. lol
It's an embarrassing comment.

 

[Alexander]

Sanders numbers from the Run-and-Shoot era weren't as good. So you are correct Hostile in that a FB sure helps!

And it helped Sanders:

In his two seasons with Tommy Vardell:
335/2,053 6.1 ypc 11 TD 128 ypg
343/1,491 4.3 ypc 4 TD 93.2 ypg

But apparently, he "just never hit holes".

 

[jobberone]

yeah i know i was just going into the topic in general with your view on Brown. I've seen clips of him and sayers. But viewing clips and seeing Emmitt run on tv and in person for his career are two different things.

IMO if it wasnt for his injury I think Bo Jackson wouldve been the greatest.

You may be right. He was faster than Brown when he came out and almost as powerful. I think some have forgotten just how fast and powerful Brown was. Even later in his career he was more than a handful. Early on there just had never been an athlete with his size, power and athleticism. Bo was close.

So many good runners throughout the league's history... OJ, Dickerson, Campbell, Payton, etc. just to name a few more.

Makes it really hard to say "this guy was the best", they were all fantastic.

All those guys were great.

 

[jobberone]

Are you saying it should be obvious that they were running the run & shoot back then? I know you are not serious.

Well, I either forgot or never really paid much attention to them. I remember Atl and some others running that offense just not Detroit. My bad.

 

[Hostile]

Thank You

Some have this crazy stereotype of Sanders that says he would not hit a hole. The guy had huge thighs and clip after clip shows him breaking tackles. He was clearly no bulldozer--and would have been a moron to be so, given his outerworldly elusive running skills--but he absolutely could do the job when needed.

I won't go down the road of comparing Emmitt and Sanders if it means running either of them down. But hearing some say "they would not have Sanders on my team" is almost football card revoking material. lol
It's an embarrassing comment.

Just guessing, you didn't actually read the article.

 

[perrykemp]

And it helped Sanders:

In his two seasons with Tommy Vardell:
335/2,053 6.1 ypc 11 TD 128 ypg
343/1,491 4.3 ypc 4 TD 93.2 ypg

But apparently, he "just never hit holes".

Sander's statistics after the Lions junked the Run-and-Shoot are mind boggling. If anything, playing in a 4 WR offense in the first half of his career stunted his potential.

 

[DFWJC]

Just guessing, you didn't actually read the article.

I was not referring to the article--which I did read--but to some other comments.

 

[perrykemp]

I don't think it matters at all.

Dallas created an offense around Emmitt. The entire game plan, and I am not talking week to week but in toto, was to get ahead, then use Emmitt to eat the clock.

Aikman to a greater degree and Irvin to a lesser degree sacrificed their numbers so Emmitt could carry the ball.

Not taking anything away from Emmitt. Because he was such a consistent player that could grind out yards or get them in big chunks.

The line sprung him, but when he got to the linebacker level he was flat better than almost every back going, because he broke tackles.

People suggest Barry had the wiggle and speed Emmitt didn't. That is true. But while folks claim Emmitt always had a truck sized hole to run through, that was not always the case.

But when the chips were down and you needed four yards to seal a game, get a first down, win a championship, they did not take Emmitt out of the game.

The separated shoulder game Emmitt carried the ball or caught a pass on every play when they needed it to win.

The 1993 championship came on a drive where Emmitt touched the ball every play and wore out the Bills.

The argument doesn't matter for several reasons.

Some are jealous of the Cowboys, because that was the best team I ever saw play this game, and I have been around since day one with this franchise. Up until then I thought it was the Stealers.

But I would put that Dallas team against any team, one game, winner take all and know that they would dominate.

That is what others know, and they cannot stand it that a team considered soft in the 70's, a finesse team ended up being the end-all be-all toughest team that ran simple plays and said, stop this biatches.

The second aspect is - - I know.

I KNOW. I saw, I watched,and I know who the best was. I don't need a 49er fan telling me, because I know. Or Giants fan, Eagles fan, Commander fan, or any other fan of any other team.

Because I KNOW.

They hated Dallas because they could not stop Dallas.

And the most sincere form of flattery in this game is being disrepected by the other guys after you beat their rears.

They talk about Barry, OJ, Peyton, Sayers, Dickerson and others.

But they know.

And so do I. I don't have to say shiznizzle. Because EVERYONE in their hearts KNOWS who was the best.

I pretty much agree with everything you say. In my football watching lifetime Emmity Smith was the best. I argue with anyone who will listen that Emmitt Smith was the best RB of all time with ONE CAVEAT -- I am not old enough to have watched Jim Brown play. From what I can see from the highlights Jim Brown looked like he was a man among boys in his day and do if anybody argues Jim Brown I am willing put them at 1A and 1B in no specific order.

 

[mrmojo]

Both are great running backs. But if I wanted to win a championship Emmitt is my back. He could run, block, catch, and run between the tackles. If you needed three yards he would get you four. John Madden made a comment one time that Emmitt could play on anything, turf, grass, or in the parking lot and he would still be the one you couldnt catch.

Barry Sanders was an exciting back and may be ther greatest pure runner i have ever seen. But if Barry was on those Cowboy dynasty teams would his style have been succesful in the Norv Turner offense? I'm not sure and reality is no one will ever know. And reality is that Emmitt was a major eason the Cowboys won those championships. Emmitt made the most of his opportunity in Dallas and I for one am forever grateful he was A Cowboy.

 

[Dalmations202]

Barry Sanders is to running backs what Tony Romo is to quarterbacks......flashy, great stats at times....will take your breath away. Then next week will give the game away.

Just My opinion.

 

[Hostile]

Barry Sanders is to running backs what Tony Romo is to quarterbacks......flashy, great stats at times....will take your breath away. Then next week will give the game away.

Just My opinion.

You know what? Until Tony Romo can prove otherwise...that is fair.

 

[perrykemp]

Barry Sanders is to running backs what Tony Romo is to quarterbacks......flashy, great stats at times....will take your breath away. Then next week will give the game away.

Just My opinion.

I can't agree with this. You can say Sanders didn't contribute as much as Emmitt did in getting in the end zone, however, to say that he would give the game away via back-breaking mistakes is just obscene.

For the record, Barry Sanders fumbled on 41 times in his career. Emmitt Smith, who also was known for tremendous ball security, fumbled it 61 times. Neither of these guys "gave the game away".

 

[DFWJC]

Barry Sanders is to running backs what Tony Romo is to quarterbacks......flashy, great stats at times....will take your breath away. Then next week will give the game away.

Just My opinion.

Your opinion is a massive exaggeration.
No offense.

Maybe Hall of Famers Barry Sanders and Dan Marino are more like it.

 

[ragman]

Sanders had trouble running between the tackles. If you don't believe me, watch some old game footage.

 

[Alexander]

Sanders had trouble running between the tackles. If you don't believe me, watch some old game footage.

And Emmitt Smith struggled running wide; his best runs were usually lead draws right up the middle. Different styles and that really has nothing to do with the comparison.

 

[perrykemp]

I don't even see a debate on this issue. Given all the evidence that success in short yardage and goalline situations contribute to winning more than ypc (see every run vs pass thread from the last three years), I don't see how anyone could still pick Barry over Emmitt.

Interestingly, if you look at the stats and compare the number of TDs per game between Emmitt and Barry you end up with:

Emmitt Smith: 226 games and 175 TDs: 0.77 TDs per game
Barry Sanders: 153 games and 109 TDs: 0.71 TDs per game

The difference isn't as nearly pronounced as you think. Emmitt Smith scores about 8% more TDs than Barry.

Sanders averaged 5.0 ypc for his career and Emmitt Smith averaged 4.3ypc. Sanders ypc was 16% greater than Smith

Sanders averaged 99.8 yards per game for his career and Emmitt Smith averaged 88.2 yards per game for his career. Sanders yards per game was 13% higher than Smith.

Again, in my book Emmitt Smith is the greatest RB of all time -- however, you have to acknowledge the greatness of Barry Sanders if you really take more than a passing glance at his statistics.

 

[Alexander]

The difference isn't as nearly pronounced as you think. Emmitt Smith scores about 8% more TDs than Barry.

And just think back to how many of those were hand-delivered by Michael Irvin getting the ball inside the five yard line and Smith waltzing in untouched.

 

[tupperware]

This is pretty interesting.

A lot of members will come to defend Romo and say "You can't just blame everything on Romo, it's a team game!"

Then I'm seeing a lot of people saying Barry wasn't a winner and yet, seem to forget the teams both players played on.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Barry, IMHO, had more overall talent and moves. Emmitt had more talent around him and was a winner.

Barry ended his career on top. Emmitt ended his career on the bottom with the Cards. On that team, he had negative yardage against a so-so Dallas defense.

But it's all subjective as to who be the better back.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

Seen Emmitt vs Barry a few times around here but what about Emmitt vs Walter Payton.....