TO was never really that GREAT

[DallasEast]

Somebody said at this start of this something about "15 pages".

Polarizing figures like T.O., Kobe, Pete Rose, A-Rod, etc...........either you love 'em or you hate 'em. And all the talking in the world won't change a haters mind.

Like Kobe. Like it or not, after the Lakers dispense of Orlando (which is NOW just a matter of time), the haters have no choice than to concede what's been true for a while now: That Kobe has to mentioned in the same breath as Jerry West, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Dr. J., etc............Unless, of course, you allow your hatred of him make you sound like an idiot trying to dismiss him.

Same with T.O. Like him or not, he's a first ballot HOF'r according to the numbers, stats, and game he brought to the table for a LOOOOONG time. Unless, of course, you HATE HIS GUTS, then naturally, he's not. I'm a Cowboy fan. Have been since '64. T.O. was a Cowboy for three years. So this isn't a "homer" thing. It's just a plain statement of fact.

What's being lost here is for a player to become a first-ballot inductee, he must be voted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame during his first year of eligibility. That's an undeniable fact.

Opinions outside those held by the Board of Selectors bear zero weight. My opinion is that Michael Irvin should have been inducted on his first try. It didn't happen. Personally, I couldn't care less if anyone else doesn't share my opinion based upon my interpretation of his career stats. In the end, none of that matters.

Unfortunately, the only opinion that matters is what the media a.k.a. the Board debates. Some will say that the Board will not throw his nonsense into the debates; and to that I will only say that is an enormously naive notion. I have followed the selection process a very long time and one thing is certain. Stats do not work for every desiring candidate on their first try--and I'm not just talking about Irvin's situation.

 

[jimmy40]

Think so? PM me and lets go Vegas on it. I'll take that bet a thousand times over.

MLB HOF voters are allowed to take off-field stuff, attitude stuff, locker room stuff into voting booth. NFL HOF voters are only allowed to consider ON FIELD stuff while making their decision. I know they don't (Bob Hayes anyone?), but that's STILL the template for HOF voters for the NFL.

T.O. has never comitted a crime. No guns, drugs, 15 babies, car-wrecks, Vegas scandal, etc................nothing of the sort. The only stain on the guy is that he's mouthy, self-absorbed, and at times belligerant. He's on everyones' "Top 10 All Time" list of recievers, and he's not done yet.

When he's done, they won't be able to keep him out of the HOF. Unless they're like you, and just don't like the guy and refuse to look at his numbers, stats and career.................

How many first ballot receivers has there been? Who are they? Go ahead and include Jerry Rice.

 

[CF74]

How does that explain the Super Bowl with the Eagles, when he put on a clinic?

When did the Superbowl stop being a big game? I'm pretty sure, maybe I'm remembering someone else, that the one time he's played in THE big game he came up aces.

I guess that must have been a different guy running around out there that night.

He didn't do anything in the second half that's why he lost it in Philly. They didn't throw him the ball. He had that one big play where he made a 1st down but then what? Clinic???

 

[Apollo Creed]

Owens, a 13 year veteran, when you study him on tape - ran similar routes to most rookies. Not kidding.

 

[JonJon]

Owens, a 13 year veteran, when you study him on tape - ran similar routes to most rookies. Not kidding.

Then why aren't those rookies putting up 1000 yard seasons?

Dumb thread....

 

[Apollo Creed]

Then why aren't those rookies putting up 1000 yard seasons?

Dumb thread....

Eddie Royal and DeSean Jackson beg to differ.

 

[UnoDallas]

TO has had 10 years with 1000+ yards seasons out of 14

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=3664&team=2

had 9 seasons with 10 - 16 TDS

sorry I say he gets in

an he has not had the past like Irvin drugs an prositutes

Irvins stats 750 receptions for 11,904 yards

TO stats 951 for 14,1222

 

[Rampage]

we didn't get the great T.O. the last time he was great was 2004 imo. we got the downgraded version of him.

 

[Apollo Creed]

we didn't get the great T.O. the last time he was great was 2004 imo. we got the downgraded version of him.

Exactly.

When he was in Philly he was absolutely unstoppable, and he had much better coaching there. The 04 version of Owens was when he was in his prime, the season he got suspended he was on pace for a 1700 yard 16 TD season.

The guy we got in Dallas was still in great shape, but he didn't have the burst and was starting to have trouble getting off the line of scrimmage.

It also didn't help that he only worked really hard on making his body look good, to hell with running crisp sharp routes and working on your hands in the offseason.

 

[khiladi]

Exactly.

When he was in Philly he was absolutely unstoppable, AND HE HAD MUCH BETTER COACHING THERE. The 04 version of Owens was when he was in his prime, the season he got suspended he was on pace for a 1700 yard 16 TD season.

The guy we got in Dallas was still in great shape, but he didn't have the burst and was starting to have trouble getting off the line of scrimmage.


It also didn't help that he only worked really hard on making his body look good, to hell with running crisp sharp routes and working on your hands in the offseason.

You nailed the first part and crapped on the second. Jason Garrett is not even close to ANdy Reid... What yuo attribute to as a decline in performance has to do with a decline in coaching. The offense of the Eagles was West Coast and founded on plenty of quick strikes and slants, while Garrett had TO running long all day long.

 

[khiladi]

he played well in that game. he also played like crap in both playoff games for us. he had that one game winning catch with SF but he's lucky Young actually looked his way after he dropped several passes that game too.

Last time I checked, Bill Parcells refused to throw the ball and attack the thrid-string secondary of Seattle. It wasn't TOs fault for the game-plan and the second game, it was pretty much the same thing, except TO was playing with a high-ankle sprain and the OL of the Cowboys simply collapsed and Romo couldn't find TO, despite the fact that he was getting open. This isn't even mentioning the fact that Dallas went run the whole first half with Barber.

 

[Rampage]

Last time I checked, Bill Parcells refused to throw the ball and attack the thrid-string secondary of Seattle. It wasn't TOs fault for the game-plan and the second game, it was pretty much the same thing, except TO was playing with a high-ankle sprain and the OL of the Cowboys simply collapsed and Romo couldn't find TO, despite the fact that he was getting open. This isn't even mentioning the fact that Dallas went run the whole first half with Barber.

Owens dropped atleast 1 pass vs seattle and he culdn't get open in the 2nd half vs ny

 

[Apollo Creed]

Owens dropped atleast 1 pass vs seattle and he culdn't get open in the 2nd half vs ny

He also costed us a game against the Commanders in 2006 by dropping a would-be 70 yard TD pass in Washington.

Don't forget the 2 point conversion fade he dropped against Buffalo that almost costed us the game, if not for a miracle onside kick and 2 53 yard field goals from Folk.

In 2008:

503 of his 1,052 yards and 4 of his 10 TDs came in 5 games. The Philly shootout, the San Fran romp, the Seattle romp, and the 44-6 blowout (103 yards).

77 of his yards and another TD came in the Washington game when we targeted him 20+ times despite double coverage. Then he *****ed about wanting more balls.

The TD in the Steelers game came on a fluke play when Romo threw the ball up, Owens happened to be in the area and the defender had his back turned.

Heres the rest of his year.

Cleveland 5 rec 87 yards 1 TD
Cincy 2 rec 67 yards 1 TD
Balt 5 rec 63 yards 1 TD
Wash 5 rec 38 yards 0 TDs
N.Y. 3 rec`38 yards 0 TDs
Arizona 4 rec 36 yards 0 TDs
T.B 5 rec 33 yards 0 TD
Pitt 3 rec 32 yards 1 TD
St Louis 2 rec 19 yards 0 TD
G.B 2 rec 17 yards 0 TD

33 drops.

With the amount of times we threw the ball his way (well over 125 times) that is a piss poor season.

 

[TheDude]

Yeah TO sucked.

In 2007, He only was leading the league in yds and 2nd in TDS until being injured in the Carolina game. missing the second half and the final game of the year.

I will agree about the "not going up for the ball". I have always said that, but he wasn't lucjky to be in the area for th Pitt TD. He snaqgged it away from the DB.

Also, it is convenient to dismiss the 70yd bomb against Philly, the 57 yd game clincher at Cincy. The clinic at Clev, where another 50 yd pass was called back due to penalty

And how can anyone look at themselves in the mirror when putting down Brad Johnson Games. I have done the stats before, if you normalize the the season for 16 Romo games, his stats are virtually the same.

Anyway. No one and I repeat no one was criticizing him after 2007

 

[khiladi]

He also costed us a game against the Commanders in 2006 by dropping a would-be 70 yard TD pass in Washington.

Don't forget the 2 point conversion fade he dropped against Buffalo that almost costed us the game, if not for a miracle onside kick and 2 53 yard field goals from Folk.
.

Yo mean TO didn't make a play after the 70 yard drop. As for the Buffalo game, you would think Romo's SIX interceptions was more of a problem then one drop by TO... Hell, the way you analyze stats, Romo would look like crap..