Toomer: Romo better than Eli

[Doomsday101]

I'm sorry, hate me if you want, ban me from this forum, but Romo is not elite, and will not ever be an elite QB with only ONE post season win, period. He can't. You cannot call a QB elite with that post season record. Blame his D, or the stadium lights, it doesn't matter. Call him unlucky, doesn't matter. The record is the record. I feel bad for him, don't get me wrong, I like watching him play, one of the most mobile QB's out there. MY God, Eli runs like my sister, but he has what he has.

The regular season is only the stepping stones until the big games arrive in Jan. Regular season wins / stats are diddly squat if you lose in the post season. My God, in 2008 the jints were 10-1, then stupid shot himself and they finished 12-4, NFC east champs, first round bye, home field advantage. What happened? The eagles came to town and embarassed them. So their 12-4 was meaningless. They didn't finish.

The Mets were 14 yes FOURTEEN games in first place (few years ago) with 3 or so weeks away from the pennant race and they blew it. They didn't finish.

1st off no reason to ban you for your opinion that is not an issue.

2nd I have never said Romo was elite and yes I think post season does count but I don't think it is the sole mesuring stick if it were then there would be a lot more elite QB who played the game that very few would consider elite. Eli career has been a big series of ups and downs, last season being this best but given his past it is just as likely he will have a poor season as having a good one.

3rd I think Eli is a very good QB he is not elite in my view while he may be in yours and some others there are people who do not put him in that elite catagory for the simple reason his overall lack of consistentcy something his brother has shown over his career, something Brady has shown and Brees and something all elite have shown.

I'm not trying to insult anyone but I'm not going to sit there and pretend Eli is this elite QB nor am I saying Romo is.

Romo has put up great numbers and never posted a season under 90 in the QB ranking which is very remarkable and hard to accomplish, I would also agree he will need post season success added to that for him to be looked at as elite by most.

 

[DFWJC]

Romo is ALWAYS the very first to say that, fair or not, the QB position is measured more by post season success than other positons. It will always be the tie-breaker when all else is at least close to being equal. So if all else is not close to being equal (so stop the Marino/Dilfer talk) than we have a non-discussion.

The point is, some of us need to remember that Romo himself says--every chance he gets--that post-season success (even if he may not be able to play defense) will play a large role in how he will be measured when he retires. Has anyone here ever heard the guy boast or brag? I haven't.

I've maintained all along, there's no reason to tear one QB down to build up the other. Romo and EManning are both very good...and similar enough that we can at least have a debate on who is better.

Most, outside of Cowboy land will give Eli the slight edge due to those rings, even if he has been less consistant over his while career so far. He's had 5 playoff chances and has played well in two of them and terriblky in the other 3. But when he (and his team) got rolling, both times it was very impressive.

 

[bklyn1028]

You are right, both of you. This board, as well as everyone else's are nothing more than conjecture, and opinions, I understand that, and abide by that. What burns my *** more than anything, is when someone (and not just Eli) has a good game / season/ post season and is called "lucky". Yes there is an element of luck involved, we all know that, but luck is measured by the willingness of the person / team's competitiveness.

Is Eli elite? Today he is, if he has a 2012 season that mirrors 2010, then he'll be the goat, that is the way of sports. It is what have you done for me today.

I guess to sum it up, lets get rid of the "luck" word.

 

[Doomsday101]

You are right, both of you. This board, as well as everyone else's are nothing more than conjecture, and opinions, I understand that, and abide by that. What burns my *** more than anything, is when someone (and not just Eli) has a good game / season/ post season and is called "lucky". Yes there is an element of luck involved, we all know that, but luck is measured by the willingness of the person / team's competitiveness.

Is Eli elite? Today he is, if he has a 2012 season that mirrors 2010, then he'll be the goat, that is the way of sports. It is what have you done for me today.

I guess to sum it up, lets get rid of the "luck" word.

I don't think he was lucky, yes he got some good breaks in the past but hey when you get a break you have to be able to take advantage of it and he did. Staubach threw a hail mary to Drew Pearson and when you get down to it, it had more to do with Pearson coming back to the ball and fighting the defender for the ball then getting into the endzone than it did with Roger throwing the perfect pass, it was not perfect by any means thus the name hail mary (throw it up and pray) So breaks happen.

My only issue with Eli being elite again is inconsistent play, when I look at other QB's I would consider elite it is because year in and year out they perform at a high level even in season where their team came up short.

 

[bklyn1028]

I don't think he was lucky, yes he got some good breaks in the past but hey when you get a break you have to be able to take advantage of it and he did. Staubach threw a hail mary to Drew Pearson and when you get down to it, it had more to do with Pearson coming back to the ball and fighting the defender for the ball then getting into the endzone than it did with Roger throwing the perfect pass, it was not perfect by any means thus the name hail mary (throw it up and pray) So breaks happen.

My only issue with Eli being elite again is inconsistent play, when I look at other QB's I would consider elite it is because year in and year out they perform at a high level even in season where their team came up short.

That is true, he was erratic the other years. I suppose 2012 will be his defining year. I believe Romo's also.

 

[burmafrd]

You can't do it because Romo is in the way in your mind. You can't be truly honest with yourself and give Eli the respect he deserves because of your homerism for Romo. If there was no Romo, you would be saying Eli is elite.

If Romo "leads" his team to a Superbowl victory very soon, then we can talk about him being AS GOOD as Eli.

as probably the most virulent Romo hater here, why should anyone care what you post?

 

[ufcrules1]

Romo is ALWAYS the very first to say that, fair or not, the QB position is measured more by post season success than other positons. It will always be the tie-breaker when all else is at least close to being equal. So if all else is not close to being equal (so stop the Marino/Dilfer talk) than we have a non-discussion.

The point is, some of us need to remember that Romo himself says--every chance he gets--that post-season success (even if he may not be able to play defense) will play a large role in how he will be measured when he retires. Has anyone here ever heard the guy boast or brag? I haven't.

I've maintained all along, there's no reason to tear one QB down to build up the other. Romo and EManning are both very good...and similar enough that we can at least have a debate on who is better.

Most, outside of Cowboy land will give Eli the slight edge due to those rings, even if he has been less consistant over his while career so far. He's had 5 playoff chances and has played well in two of them and terriblky in the other 3. But when he (and his team) got rolling, both times it was very impressive.

I can agree with this entire post. I can also see where others wouldn't call Eli elite. It is hard for me to call him elite sometimes because when I think of elite I think of guys like Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers... but Eli is right with those guys now. He is extremely clutch come playoff time when all the marbles are on the line and has delivered in the grandest stage.

I don't want to tear down Romo at all, he is a very good QB, he just has a propensity to choke at the most inopportune times and doesn't have a good playoff record. Can he change that? I think so and hope so. I would love nothing more than Romo to lead us to the superbowl or even deep into the playoffs for once. I will be rooting my heart out for him this year.

One thing I will say about both of these guys is they are very unique/ hard to figure out/ put your finger on. Romo can play out of his mind sometimes and be elite as they come but then he has other games where he has the most epic melt downs you have ever seen. I just think mentally he wigs out and doesn't think things through. Like the Jets game.. at the 1 yard line, the one thing the QB has to do is protect the ball to make sure we get points and instead he fumbles at the one and we get nothing. It is scary to think about Romo when everything is on the line in a playoff game. You just hope and pray he doesn't mess up.

Eli can be wishy washy during the regular season and then a beast during the playoffs. So he can be hard to gauge too.

 

[bklyn1028]

I can agree with this entire post. I can also see where others wouldn't call Eli elite. It is hard for me to call him elite sometimes because when I think of elite I think of guys like Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers... but Eli is right with those guys now. He is extremely clutch come playoff time when all the marbles are on the line and has delivered in the grandest stage.

I don't want to tear down Romo at all, he is a very good QB, he just has a propensity to choke at the most inopportune times and doesn't have a good playoff record. Can he change that? I think so and hope so. I would love nothing more than Romo to lead us to the superbowl or even deep into the playoffs for once. I will be rooting my heart out for him this year.

One thing I will say about both of these guys is they are very unique/ hard to figure out/ put your finger on. Romo can play out of his mind sometimes and be elite as they come but then he has other games where he has the most epic melt downs you have ever seen. I just think mentally he wigs out and doesn't think things through. Like the Jets game.. at the 1 yard line, the one thing the QB has to do is protect the ball to make sure we get points and instead he fumbles at the one and we get nothing. It is scary to think about Romo when everything is on the line in a playoff game. You just hope and pray he doesn't mess up.

Eli can be wishy washy during the regular season and then a beast during the playoffs. So he can be hard to gauge too.

Nothing,,,,,NOTHING will be more exciting then Jan 2013, NFC Chanpionship Game, Dallas vs NY, in NY of course.....lol

 

[Fletch]

Nothing,,,,,NOTHING will be more exciting then Jan 2013, NFC Chanpionship Game, Dallas vs NY, in NY of course.....lol

It'll be S.F. vs. Dallas at Cowboy's Stadium in 2013.

 

[bklyn1028]

It'll be S.F. vs. Dallas at Cowboy's Stadium in 2013.

I seriously doubt Alex Smith will have another year. Although they have probably the most brutal D I've seen in a long time. Nah, I don't think *****bag Harbaugh can do it again. Man I hate that guy.

 

[bklyn1028]

It'll be S.F. vs. Dallas at Cowboy's Stadium in 2013.

"AND HERE COMES FLETCH, 6'4, 6'6 WITH THE AFRO"....lol....funny movie

 

[ufcrules1]

Nothing,,,,,NOTHING will be more exciting then Jan 2013, NFC Chanpionship Game, Dallas vs NY, in NY of course.....lol

Yeah, that would be pretty epic!! With Romo and the Cowboys coming out on top of course.

 

[Idgit]

I take it in.

All holes in the opposition's argument are ridiculously easy to see.

I don't even recognize you anymore. You need to take down your Freddie Mercury avatar and replace it with Phil Collins.

At the very least, I was expecting an AbeVigodaBeta reference.

 

[bklyn1028]

Yeah, that would be pretty epic!! With Romo and the Cowboys coming out on top of course.

Of course...............not....lol

 

[Ring Leader]

What can I say, blame it on the lights!

Call it clutch, call it choking, call it luck, or skill, it doesn't matter. If losing the ball in the lights is choking then yes, Austin choked.

Right now they are both excellent QB's. Eli is slightly above him only, ONLY because of his post-season record. Come on, admit it, it's a mathematical fact. Nice try on your conclusion but is "not" a mathematical fact that your first point proves your second. My God, that kid showed more moxie than most in that San Fran game. In the 4th quarter Eli went 3 and out 6 of his last 7 drives. If your definition of moxie is to wait for you defense or special teams to bail you out then yes, he has it!



Eli is every bit as good as Romo is without the statsYet in this and in subsequent posts you claim that Eli is better.

Which is it?

 

[gimmesix]

You can't do it because Romo is in the way in your mind. You can't be truly honest with yourself and give Eli the respect he deserves because of your homerism for Romo. If there was no Romo, you would be saying Eli is elite.

If Romo "leads" his team to a Superbowl victory very soon, then we can talk about him being AS GOOD as Eli.

Thanks for the analysis, doc, but just because you can't be objective doesn't mean that others can't.

Unlike you, I look at the whole picture and not just those two shiny Super Bowl rings that seem to have you under a spell. The whole picture says that Eli cannot be considered elite right now. His career does not support it.

Now as I've said, if he adds a few more years like he had in 2011 and 2009 to his resume, then you've got an argument. If he goes back to what he showed in 2010, then you've got the same, inconsistent quarterback he had shown himself to be before last season.

 

[AbeBeta]

I'm judging him on his career including 2010 where he was at 85 and threw 25 ints on the season. I'm sorry you don't like it but my version of elite is what guys like Brady and Peyton put up which is consistent great player over the course of their career not picking a season here or there as you and others are doing. SB are won by teams, inidividual player is different just as it is with any other position.

if a RB who has been in the league 8 years with only 2 1,000 rushing totals in that time elite? We have a much different view of what elite is. As for last year it was the best season that Eli had and I give him credit for his play but that season along with a team accomplishment is not elite.

If that running back dropped multiple 100 yard games in the playoffs and led his team to two championships, I would call him elite. That is, if he stepped up and was outstanding against the best teams in the league when it was win or go home, then yes, I'd call him elite.

After all, your silly Jim Plunkett comparison notwithstanding, elite is about far more than career statistics. It is about what you do on the biggest stage.

 

[Idgit]

If that running back dropped multiple 100 yard games in the playoffs and led his team to two championships, I would call him elite. That is, if he stepped up and was outstanding against the best teams in the league when it was win or go home, then yes, I'd call him elite.

After all, your silly Jim Plunkett comparison notwithstanding, elite is about far more than career statistics. It is about what you do on the biggest stage.

If the guy had a mediocre season, average playoffs, and then blew up in the Superbowl, would that also make him elite? After all, it's not about statistics, it's about what you do on the biggest stage. I think this is why we all consider Phil Simms and Timmy Smith truly elite players because of all they were able to accomplish.

Any definition of 'elite' that doesn't include being consistent is not a useful definition of 'elite,' period. This is also why Romo can't fairly be considered elite, because despite how many games he wins overall, he hasn't done it consistently in the playoffs yet.

 

[AbeBeta]

If the guy had a mediocre season, average playoffs, and then blew up in the Superbowl, would that also make him elite? After all, it's not about statistics, it's about what you do on the biggest stage. I think this is why we all consider Phil Simms and Timmy Smith truly elite players because of all they were able to accomplish.

Any definition of 'elite' that doesn't include being consistent is not a useful definition of 'elite,' period. This is also why Romo can't fairly be considered elite, because despite how many games he wins overall, he hasn't done it consistently in the playoffs yet.

But that isn't what we are talking about as Manning did not have "average" playoffs. 4 of his 6 games in the playoff run seasons had PR over 100

 

[Idgit]

But that isn't what we are talking about as Manning did not have "average" playoffs. 4 of his 6 games in the playoff run seasons had PR over 100

I didn't ask you if Manning had an average playoff. I'm asking you to clarify your twisted and unusable definition of 'elite' which allows for mediocre play while teams are attempting to qualify for a championship. If consistent play isn't required during the regular season, why is it necessary during the lead up to the championship? That seems pretty arbitrary if the point is to put the emphasis on what you do on the biggest stage.

Or, are you saying it's important to be consistent, but only in the playoffs? But why only in the playoffs? What about regular season games that are win-or-go-home, does it matter then? And if not then, what about the 10-or-so games a year you have to win to qualify for the playoffs. Some of those games are pretty big games in the regular season. Do those count?

It's absurd to consider a player elite--at any position--if they can't perform at the highest level consistently. I agree, they also have to be able to do it when it counts most, but that's part of being consistent.

As long as there are guys who can both play great during the season and during the postseason, there's no reason to consider a player who can't do both elite just because he happens to have been on the team that collected the hardware.