Total Opposites: Ginn, Jr. vs. Jarrett

5mics

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Although I don't think we should draft a WR in the 1st round, the possibility of it exists. I think these two WRs will still be available when our pick comes up & I'm having a difficult time choosing if I were to take a WR. I've purposely left out CJ (will be long gone) and Bowe & Meacham because I just prefer Ginn, Jr./Jarrett over either one. What to do, who to choose; this is so hard because they are total opposites! Do I go w/ pure speed ala Cliff Branch or the size & tenacity of "Baby KJ"? Who would you take?:confused:

Ted Ginn, Jr. (6-0, 180, Ohio St.) LINK
Positives: Has outstanding quickness, agility and balance … Gets to top speed in a hurry and maintains acceleration throughout his routes … Has that quick second-gear burst as a returner to take the ball to the house consistently (six touchdowns on punt returns, two touchdowns on kickoffs) … Good team leader who responds to discipline; with his work ethic, you won't need to monitor him … Once he gets into his patterns, he is quick to gobble up the cushion … If given a free lane to operate, Ginn is certain to find the seams … On deep patterns, he has that extra burst needed to run by defenders and is very effective at making the over-the-shoulder grabs … The thing you see on film is his ability to get down the field rapidly … Can track, adjust and jump for the ball much better on long routes than he does when working in a crowd … Given a free lane, Ginn will immediately burst into his routes … Eats up the cushion in an instant, and while his lateral agility could improve, he maintains stride on slants and screens … Best served on screens, quick flares, slants or bursting up the seam -- anything that will take advantage of his explosive quickness … Is very quick through transition and has a knack for avoiding second-level defenders to find holes in the zone … Lacks double-cut agility, but can accelerate suddenly when he drops his pads … Can instantly turn on a defensive back on a route; he has that extra gear needed to pull away … When he sinks his hips, he transitions fast and accelerates through the cuts to burst away … Might not look fluid in and out of his breaks, but has the ability to separate thanks to a sensational second gear … Has the speed to stretch the field and separate, showing steady acceleration to uncover vs. man coverage … Has a knack for becoming available quickly on the blitz and does a good job of getting his feet down along the sidelines … Carries route depth, sliding to create lanes, but must do a better job of settling when working in traffic … Adjusts readily to man coverage and is alert to finding the soft spot in the deep zone … If given room to operate, he will simply race past a defender … Might not have the strength to break tackles or the lateral agility to redirect, but with his acceleration, he is a dangerous threat with the ball in his hands … His burst makes him too elusive in man coverage; he always makes the first tackler miss.

Negatives: Has a wiry build with a lean frame, split high with long legs, lacking the bulk or strength to consistently beat press coverage … Plays with suddenness, but lacks the lateral agility to come out of his breaks cleanly and needs to improve his footwork, especially in stop-and-go action … Instinctive returner, but needs to vary his speed when running routes … While he is explosive in the open field, his concentration tends to be a bit inconsistent, as he hears the sounds of the defender's footsteps working over the middle … Must do a better job of securing the ball on receptions before turning upfield (will drop a few when he tries to run before grasping the ball … Lacks the strength to power his way through the press and needs to be more active with his hands on release … Must be more alert working underneath for when the quarterback is going to deliver the ball, but does a nice job of looking the throw in over his outside shoulder without having to break stride … Moves well left or right, but shows only adequate hip snap on his lateral moves … When he is up against the press, he tends to take false steps and cocks his arms before firing, but he has enough speed to compensate … Sometimes that speed gets him into trouble; he runs so fast he might miss a cut or look sloppy trying to plant and drive … His cuts look too choppy and he looks tight in his hips making body turns … Looks a little too stiff in his hips when moving laterally, so he is not a great multiple-cut runner … Shows very good vision to track the ball in flight, but will struggle some in tough-to-catch spots … Not much of a red-zone threat; he had only six passes thrown to him in that area through 37 games.

Compares To: Dante Hall, Kansas City -- Like Hall, Ginn appears to be a quality return specialist who can contribute some as a receiver rather than a receiver who can contribute some as a return specialist. He is very effective on quick slants and screens and tracks the ball well over his head, but with his lack of strength and inability to defeat the press, he will struggle to get a clean release and into his routes at the next level. He seems hesitant to go over the middle as a receiver, and he tends to lose concentration when he hears a defender's footsteps. Still, he is an electrifying returner who could bring decent value in multiple-receiver formations, as long as you don't ask Ginn to run lateral routes into a crowd.

AGILITY TESTS
Campus: 4.28 in the 40-yard dash … 250-pound bench press … 34½-inch vertical jump … 31¼-inch arm length … 9 1/8-inch hands.

Dwayne Jarrett (6-5, 215, USC) LINK
Positives: Has long arms and legs with a frame that can carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk … Plays with only adequate quickness, but shows very good ball concentration and aggressiveness going after the ball … Has very good timing and leaping ability to get to the ball at its high point … Needs to add more bulk and upper body power to run through the press, but once he gets into his route, he is able to build his acceleration nicely … Has quick hands and the ability to uncover working underneath … Very consistent extending for the ball and builds to top acceleration nicely if he is able to beat the press … Has only adequate timed speed, but does a fine job of tracking the ball in flight and has outstanding ball adjustment skills … Uses his tall frame to create mismatches vs. the smaller defenders competing for the jump balls and is never affected by traffic in his quest to get under the pass … Not the fastest you will find on linear routes, but shows good cutting agility to separate after the catch … It is rare to see Jarrett glide out of his breaks like most bigger receivers tend to do … With Jarrett's low pad level and ability to open his hips, he is very effective at getting in and out of his breaks without having to throttle down … Does a good job going deep and is alert to pocket pressure, making a conscious effort to come back for the ball … Quite effective at keeping his feet in bounds along the sideline … Excels at making the tough catch inside the red zone, especially on corner and fade routes … Might not be able to overpower a defender going through the seams, but he has the flexibility to turn to the off-target balls and catch outside his frame … Finds the path of the ball quickly to settle underneath it, compensating for a lack of timed speed … The thing you see on film is his ability to reach and snatch the ball over a defender's head … Has only adequate speed and acceleration, but he has the loose hips to avoid tackles and maintain balance through his running stride … Good at taking a shallow crossing pass into big yardage when he makes a conscious effort to escape rather than try to run over the defender … Uses his hands well to shade, mirror and control edge rushers on contact and won't hesitate to get physical … Good position blocker in attempts to seal off and takes good angles to deliver a solid cut block vs. second level defenders.

Negatives: Lacks the timed speed to get down field in a hurry, but has the body control and ability to catch outside his frame to adjust and compete for the ball in flight … Has adequate ability to retain plays, but does need several reps … Alert to coverages, but will get a little sloppy and run right into spots at times … Consistently works back to the ball and while he can adjust on the move, he is not going to be the type who can handle multiple position assignments … Was almost ruled ineligible in June for violating NCAA rules by not paying enough rent for the apartment he shared with former Trojans quarterback Matt Leinart … There is a lot of the brash Keyshawn Johnson and the flippant Mike Williams attitude in this kid … Plays hard until the whistle, but will look lackadaisical at times and goes through the motions in practice and needs some structure there … While he will compete for the ball in a crowd, he will struggle vs. strong press coverage and gets frustrated at times when he can't separate from the speedier cornerbacks … Lacks the overall strength to defeat a strong jam and doesn't demonstrate the blazing speed or suddenness getting into his routes … Looks sluggish with his burst off the snap and relies more on his size mismatches than speed to get under the ball … A long strider rather than a receiver who takes short, quick steps … When he tries to lower his shoulder to run over a defensive back, that is when he gets into trouble, as he doesn't have the brute strength to break tackles.

Compares To: Keyshawn Johnson of the Carolina Panthers … While his work ethic and lack of speed remind some of Detroit's Mike Williams, Jarrett's ability on fade and corner routes and timing on his leaps for the jump ball rival that of another former USC receiver … Jarrett is much better at keeping his feet in bounds than Johnson, and he has some of the more natural hands you will find out there … However, he needs to show that he is maturing off the field and must improve his overall strength and hand usage, as he will struggle vs. physical press coverage.

AGILITY TESTS
Campus: 4.57 in the 40-yard dash … 290-pound bench press … 400-pound squat … 36½-inch vertical jump … 32½-inch arm length … 9½-inch hands.
 

JonCJG

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I'd go with a young Keyshawn.

DJ is not as much of a ? to me.

You know what u are getting with him.
 

THUMPER

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I would be happy with either but I have seen Jarrett play several times (complete games) and have only seen Giinn a couple of times, mostly in highlights, so I would prefer Jarrett because I know him better.

I don't watch a lot of college football unless it is UCLA or USC as I am originally from SoCal. I was at the Cal and ND games last season and got to see Jarrett up close and came away very impressed with what I saw of him. Something that wasn't highlighted much is his blocking ability. He was the guy who sprung Reggie Bush on a lot of his long runs the year before and he did a good job of blocking downfield this past year as well.

To me speed is overrated. If a guy can catch the ball consistently and not allow the defender to get to it then he is the guy I want, that guy is Jarrett. He catches everything thrown anywhere near his direction. I've seen too many guys coming out of college who had incredible 40 times but couldn't catch a cold (Alexander Wright and Macey Brooks come to mind). Give me a guy with good hands everytime.

Again, I haven't seen Ginn play so I can't say how his hands are but I KNOW what I've seen Jarrett do. Also, he isn't that slow. He takes time to get into his stride but once there he is pretty fast and has excellent body control.

This is the year to draft a WR in the 1st round as we cannot afford to wait until Owens and/or Glenn retire to bring one in. WRs take time to develop and it is prudent to draft one while you still have quality starters in place. Waiting until those starters are gone is foolish.
 

Zaxor

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Meacham

he is gonna be better than both put together:eek:
 

CrazyCowboy

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I like the big DT Branch if he falls to us......in shape or out of it
 

dbair1967

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CrazyCowboy;1435818 said:
I like the big DT Branch if he falls to us......in shape or out of it

for some reason I cant get the Alan Branch=Jimmy Kennedy thing out of my head

and for that reason, I dont want him...if he cant be motivated and at least in shape for his proday, whats he gonna do once he gets several million in his pockets?

David
 

Future

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Jarret and Ginn would be awfully nice compliments to each other
 

starfrombirth

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How about this from Meacham? http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/robertmeachem.html


Height: 6-2 | Weight: 214 | 40-Time: 4.39

Official Bio

Strengths:
Has terrific timed speed and quickness with a burst...Excellent size and he knows how to use it...Has a pretty solid build and the frame to bulk up further...Has long arms...Elusive and runs well after the catch...Shows some power and he'll break tackles...Has big hands and will snatch the ball out of the air...A big play threat in the vertical passing game...Coming off his best season and still has some upside.

Weaknesses:
Not a great route runner...Drops some balls due to a lack of concentration...Not a great blocker...Does not get off the line well versus the jam...Is not very tough or physical...Will not work across the middle much...Needs some technique work and still has to master the nuances of his craft...Has some minor durability concerns.

Notes:
Was a top recruit coming out of high school...Redshirted in 2003 due to a knee injury...Was considered to be a bit of an underachiever until his junior year when he had a fantastic season and was named an All-American...He's somewhat of a finesse player who has the physical tools you look for...May be similar to another former Vol Donte Stallworth...Stock may soar if he works out as well as expected.


I saw him on TV for the skills competition and he was amazing! He caught everything that was even close to him. High, low, front, or behind it didn't matter. He would be great for us I think. I'm still high on Sydney Rice too.
 

ENGCowboy

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Ginn Jr. is a bust waiting to happen, he relies on speed and reputation that just wont cut it in the NFL he will be constantly jammed on the line and knocked off his routes. The comparison with Dante Hall is a good one, great returner good receiver but Im not throwing the ball his way on 3rd down. I want a possession receiver, good in the red zone and classic size for the NFC East give me Bowe or Jarrett over Ginn anyday.
 

Zaxor

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starfrombirth;1435872 said:
How about this from Meacham? http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/robertmeachem.html


Height: 6-2 | Weight: 214 | 40-Time: 4.39

Official Bio

Strengths:
Has terrific timed speed and quickness with a burst...Excellent size and he knows how to use it...Has a pretty solid build and the frame to bulk up further...Has long arms...Elusive and runs well after the catch...Shows some power and he'll break tackles...Has big hands and will snatch the ball out of the air...A big play threat in the vertical passing game...Coming off his best season and still has some upside.

Weaknesses:
Not a great route runner...Drops some balls due to a lack of concentration...Not a great blocker...Does not get off the line well versus the jam...Is not very tough or physical...Will not work across the middle much...Needs some technique work and still has to master the nuances of his craft...Has some minor durability concerns.

Notes:
Was a top recruit coming out of high school...Redshirted in 2003 due to a knee injury...Was considered to be a bit of an underachiever until his junior year when he had a fantastic season and was named an All-American...He's somewhat of a finesse player who has the physical tools you look for...May be similar to another former Vol Donte Stallworth...Stock may soar if he works out as well as expected.


I saw him on TV for the skills competition and he was amazing! He caught everything that was even close to him. High, low, front, or behind it didn't matter. He would be great for us I think. I'm still high on Sydney Rice too.

I really don't understand how this kid is being overlooked... my money is on him to be the best WR to come out of this draft... the guy has better hands than CJ and has plenty of speed and has decent size... in short he has the whole package...what he needs most is fine tuning
 

starfrombirth

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That was my take on him. Size, speed, and great hands. He can be taught route running. I think he will be great. :D
 

Zaxor

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ENGCowboy;1435879 said:
Ginn Jr. is a bust waiting to happen, he relies on speed and reputation that just wont cut it in the NFL he will be constantly jammed on the line and knocked off his routes. The comparison with Dante Hall is a good one, great returner good receiver but Im not throwing the ball his way on 3rd down. I want a possession receiver, good in the red zone and classic size for the NFC East give me Bowe or Jarrett over Ginn anyday.

I agree with Ginn being a possible bust as WR (might excel on ST) and Jarrett is probably another JJ Stokes. I really don't find anything in his game that will translate to the pro game. I realize some folks like him but we will see...I have a feeling he won't amount to much of anything
 

Zaxor

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starfrombirth;1435920 said:
That was my take on him. Size, speed, and great hands. He can be taught route running. I think he will be great. :D

Tenn. really suffered at the QB position with even an average NFL starter I look for Meachem to be all pro for a long time
 

Doomsday101

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I think both have a good chance of being very good players at the next level. Ginn in my opinion would do a great job taking over for Glenn when the time comes. As for Jarrett I like having big WR and with a bit more upper body strength I think Jarrett will be a top WR in this league.
 

Silverstar

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Ted Ginn is very fast, but very frail at (6-0 180) and is coming off a major injury. He doesn't have enough strength against the jam or for blocking downfield and doesn't have much hops either with a 34 1/2 VJ. He's a deep threat if he gets separation, but doesn't grade as high as former Buckeyes Galloway and Glenn did coming out. Another 10 pounds would really help him in the NFL, but how much speed/quickness will he lose in the process?

Dwayne Jarrett has excellent size (6-5 217) and agility for a big receiver. He can beat the press and block too, but his speed getting downfield (4.57) is just too slow. He should be much faster a that weight, but will just get slower if he adds more to his frame as expected.


Now, what about Dwayne Bowe (6-2 217)?

I think Bowe has a great combination of size, speed and strength and I wouldn't mind taking him instead of Ginn, Jarrett or Meacham.


Positives: Has a well-built physique with long arms, large hands, good bubble and thick chest muscles … Has a frame that can carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk with no drop-off in speed … Physical player who uses his long arms and power to defeat the jam and get into his route progression … Best when working underneath in attempts to gain separation … Long strider who runs crisp routes and does a good job of shifting his weight in and out of his cuts … Too strong for defensive backs to attempt to re-route … Knows how to find the seams and keeping his feet in bounds working along the sidelines … More of a tackle-breaker than a receiver who can elude in the open, but it is very rare to see him get neutralized in one-on-one situations … Not afraid to go over the middle and compete for the ball in traffic … Has large, natural hands and knows how to extend and pluck away from his frame … Shows very good timing getting to the ball and is alert enough to locate the zone's soft areas … There is no flinch to him in attempts to extend and get vertical for the ball when working underneath … Even with his long stride, he has enough acceleration (needs to build to top speed though) to get under the deep throws … Has the body control and balance to go up for the ball in a crowd, but is more effective in the short-to-intermediate areas than when going deep … Has the lower body power to break tackles … Aggressive upfield blocker who attacks and neutralizes second level defenders consistently.

Negatives: Has good timed speed, but because of his long stride he needs room to build acceleration … Lacks the suddenness to explode off the line, but gets to the receiving point once he gets into gear … Shows the ability to drop his weight, but will struggle a bit to get to the low throws … Has to rely on his power and forward body lean to gain separation rather than elude … Has natural hands, but looks to run with the ball before securing it, leading to costly drops or the ball bouncing off his frame for an interception … Better on short-to-intermediate routes, as he needs too much time in attempts to gobble up the cushion and separate on deep routes … Needs to improve his ability to look the long ball in over his outside shoulder (will get turned around some and lose sight of the ball).


Campus: 4.48 in the 40-yard dash … 385-pound bench press … 480-pound squat … 286-pound power clean … 33 5/8-inch arm length … 9 7/8-inch hands … Right-handed … Wears contacts … 15/37 Wonderlic score.
 

tyke1doe

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To me it amounts to who has the greater ceiling.

In my opinion, that's Ted Ginn Jr.

Dwayne Jarrett may be the next Keyshawn Johnson. But, really, if he were the next Keyshawn Johnson, would you really be upset if we passed on him? I wouldn't. Keyshawn Johnson has been consistent and a chain mover, but I wouldn't cry if we passed on a guy who turns out like him.

Ted Ginn Jr. could be the next Devin Hester on special teams and the next Santana Moss (I would say Marvin Harrison but Ginn doesn't have Harrison's route running ability). Now would you be upset if we passed on him? I would. I think Ginn has the potential to be better than Moss, and Moss proved to be a game-changer as we Cowboys fans know all too well. :(

Big/possession receivers are a dime a dozen, IMO. We just signed the guy from the CFL.

But guys with Ted Ginn Jr.'s speed don't come very often. And when one drops as low as #22, you take him and don't ask questions. If the coaches know how to utilize his skills instead of fitting him into their predetermined scheme, his speed would ALWAYS have to be accounted for. You can use him like the Saints used Reggie Bush, who didn't touch the ball all that much in the first half of the season. But teams had to account for him anyway.

It wouldn't bother as much if he didn't live up to expectations. He's a rare talent at #22, plus the draft is an inexact science anyway. But Ginn's ceiling is greater.
 
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