Trade Up - Get Spears & Pollack

[fishspill]

I really want to draft Spears and Pollack.

Lots of mocks say we could and get them both. Many don't.

If we got both Spears and Pollack, would we need Ellis?

Would Detroit trade #10 for #20 and Ellis. Maybe add a conditional pick next year to it?

Discuss. Come with me to my dream world, or eviscerate my ego and force me into hara-kiri.

 

[Tobal]

When I first read this I thought "oh boy another one of these threads", but you know that's not really a bad trade

 

[Avery]

I really want to draft Spears and Pollack.

Lots of mocks say we could and get them both. Many don't.

If we got both Spears and Pollack, would we need Ellis?

Would Detroit trade #10 for #20 and Ellis. Maybe add a conditional pick next year to it?

Discuss. Come with me to my dream world, or eviscerate my ego and force me into hara-kiri.

I think the question would be Ellis's cap hit. I'm not so sure we should trade him though. He's arguably our most steady defensive player.

 

[fishspill]

I think we would be able to take it. I'm not Adam though.

As for Ellis, I think he's a good DE but I am not so sure he's versatile. I've seen others plug him into a 3-4 as a DE, I'm not so sure he can do that effectively (I feel much better about Glover doing it, in fact).

Spears is versatile. End or tackle in 4-3. End in 3-4.

Pollack is a versatile guy too. Rush end in a 4-3. OLB in 3-4.

Parcells likes versatile. I do too.

 

[Derinyar]

I really want to draft Spears and Pollack.

Lots of mocks say we could and get them both. Many don't.

If we got both Spears and Pollack, would we need Ellis?

Would Detroit trade #10 for #20 and Ellis. Maybe add a conditional pick next year to it?

Discuss. Come with me to my dream world, or eviscerate my ego and force me into hara-kiri.

I think this isn't a great idea, this draft is probably better to move down in than move up in. Lets trade a proven commodity for a move up to get an unproven one. Yeah, thats the ticket, the more question marks we have going into next season the better. Versatility is nice once production is established, before then its not worth that much.

Do we want a 4-3 DE? Do we want a 3-4 OLB? While those can be the same player, some of the best at one aren't going to be good at the other. Why not figure out what you are going to do, and get the person who will do it the best. If we are staying with a 4-3, someone like DJ and then Pollack at 20 looks really good to me. A nice OLB followed up by someone who should help pressure the QB. OR Merriman followed by Clayton, and hope for Blackstock in the second round. Get people who make sense for what your running. Get people you actually need.

 

[fishspill]

I think this isn't a great idea, this draft is probably better to move down in than move up in.

And if everyone is thinking that then moving up might be cheaper than usuall.

Do we want a 4-3 DE? Do we want a 3-4 OLB? While those can be the same player, some of the best at one aren't going to be good at the other.

And this very well could be the case for those in the know. But Spears and Pollack can do a team some good in a 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, nickle, dime, you name it. This assuming they haven't been evaluated by scouts as sucking.

If you have the talent you can rush the same 4 or 5 consistently and be great. If you're still building up your talent you might see if guys that can give multiple looks aren't a better investment now and in the future.

 

[Qwickdraw]

Having two rookies be the first and second option in your pass rush isn't a good idea. Pairing these two guys together a couple of years down the road might be a good idea. But you would be foolish to throw away the experience Ellis brings, only to replace it with 2 rookies and Ogbogu, Coleman. Scary.

 

[lane]

i could see us drafting two defensive players at 11 and 20. probably goin to do it anyways.

 

[Derinyar]

And if everyone is thinking that then moving up might be cheaper than usuall.



And this very well could be the case for those in the know. But Spears and Pollack can do a team some good in a 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, nickle, dime, you name it. This assuming they haven't been evaluated by scouts as sucking.

If you have the talent you can rush the same 4 or 5 consistently and be great. If you're still building up your talent you might see if guys that can give multiple looks aren't a better investment now and in the future.

Pollack doing some good in odd man fronts is purely speculative. Some players who are almost physical copies of eachother have very different play styles, and don't necessarily work in the same ways. We know Pollack is a pretty good 4-3 DE, anything else is pure speculation.

Just because something is cheaper than normal doesn't mean its desirable to do. Trading Ellis just doesn't make sense, unless you think we are going to a base 3-4. Ellis isn't a premier DE, but you can probably find many teams in the league willing to take him off our hands. You don't trade legit talent, which isn't aged, to acquire possible talent.

Might Spears be great? Sure. Might Spears be a bust? Sure. Is Ellis going to be solid and dependable next year? Baring injury, its pretty much assured. I think its incredible how many people scream about having a weak defense and want to improve it by trading off the best players from it.

 

[fishspill]

Derinyar, everything you say is true. I guess I haven't seen so much from Ellis that I'm not willing to trade him for a chance at something better.

Don't get me wrong. I like Ellis's game, his leadership, his personality, all these great things he brings. But I don't consider him such a catalytic player that he isn't moveable for this deal. You and I could just have different taste as far as this goes. I also wouldn't mind getting younger. While 30 isn't old for a DE (in fact, it could be the prime) fall-offs happen quick and it usually ain't pretty. He's getting around the time fall-offs are inevitable. Does he have 2 years, 5 years, 7 years, no years? That would be speculative, it just comes down to would you swap Ellis out for a shot at a top defensive player in this draft? I would.

The Pollack as a 3-4 OLB is speculation, absolutely. But in my defense it doesn't qualify as "wild" speculation. With his smarts and his athleticism it seems (to me at least) he could be taught how to play the position and he'd find a way to play it well. And if he couldn't at least you still have a kick-*** rush end in a 4-3 (I know: speculation).

And hey, if Pollack ain't your cup of tea think about this scenario with Merriman instead. I just like Pollack more (right now).

Merriman and Spears at #10 and #11 but no Greg Ellis. I could handle it.