Training camp battles

[Irvin88_4life]

I hear ya. Definitely better pass catchers out there. Definitely guys more mature and with a better attitude, better leaders. He is a bruiser and I love the guy. Gurley is a guy I would definitely take. Not many though.

Do they seem better as pass catchers because they get the targets? Not only that we are talking about running backs not receivers. As an all around running back Zeke is the best. Gurley is a beast but I like Zeke vision and blocking much better

 

[gimmesix]

Not really. The talent level there is so poor and the numbers are so scarce, you can already pencil in most of them.

Collins, Irving (post-suspension), shockingly Ward and unfortunately Price are all but locks.

There is no dark horse draft pick or unheralded UDFA to hang your hat on.

Datone Jones and Antwan Woods are about the only bets that could surprise the way things stand now.

This is the one position on the team where we are likely to point at going into 2019 as a massive miss by the front office.

Not sure why you said "unfortunately" Price. He's a good role player. Right now, I trust him far more than Ward.

 

[Kevin T]

Wonder if we'll be working the waiver wire for a TE...

 

[Alexander]

Not sure why you said "unfortunately" Price. He's a good role player. Right now, I trust him far more than Ward.

He is a fringe player for practically any roster. Are you convinced the fact you "trust him more" is simple familiarity?

 

[gimmesix]

He is a fringe player for practically any roster. Are you convinced the fact you "trust him more" is simple familiarity?

No, it's simply that he played well as part of the rotation before he went on IR last year. Most rosters have role players like him — guys who can play enough snaps to give your star starter a break. The unfortunate part is that we don't have a star starter at his position.

 

[xwalker]

Not sure why you said "unfortunately" Price. He's a good role player. Right now, I trust him far more than Ward.

He is a fringe player for practically any roster. Are you convinced the fact you "trust him more" is simple familiarity?

The complaints and one liner comments about the DL peaked just prior to the 2014 and 2016 seasons. The Cowboys were 12-4 and 13-3 those seasons.

If anything has been proven it's that the naysayers have been wrong.

I said prior to 2014 that they had a several legit NFL players on the DL.

The one liner comments here were plentiful with much focus on Ben Bass (who was not one of the players I had as a legit NFL player).

They didn't have elite players but they had several that were at least NFL average. At that time I expected Henry Melton to contribute something. He ended up contributing next to nothing but they still won 12 games.

The current DL roster looks way better than it did then.

Antwaun Woods is unlikely to make the roster but in reviewing his NFL game footage he is much closer to being NFL average than Nick Golden Cock Hayden ever thought about being. Price appears to be a half-step up over Woods. Hayden had to play a lot in 2014 because Henry Melton got injured and McClain had to play 3-tech instead of 1-tech.

Datone Jones has played several years in the NFL and has played 1686 snaps on defense. Jones looked solid at 1-tech and 3-tech last season despite no time in the scheme.

Collins is a good 3-tech DT but played too much 1-tech last season due to the injuries to Paea and Price. Any DT lineup will struggle if the top 2 options at 1-tech get injured. Most 4-3 team only carry two 1-techs to start the season.

Irving is only out 4 games.

The 1-tech in this defense just needs to be NFL average.

I'm not even counting on Jihad Ward; although he does represent that wildcard upside spot that is usually a draft pick.

If Collins is not ready by game 1, then I'll concede that maybe the first 4 games could be a problem at DT; although they have multiple options to develop other options in training camp (Ward, Jones, or Crawford/Ealy at 3-tech until Irving returns).

On a side note, the Cowboys need to hire @Reality to run their website. Their roster now won't even sort by position (at least not on my Android phone). The roster often has errors or just weird issues. It's lazy to list Woods as NT but Price as DT. Irving is still listed at DE. If they had a little more sense. They would list T as OT, G as OG and C as OC which would cause them to all sort together.

Their roster probably has hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of views per year.

 

[cern]

if Richard and lal are the kind of coaches we've been led to believe, there should be plenty of competition among the d-backs and wr's. we haven't really had any competiotion among the wr's for years. we need it now more than ever. the best have to step forward.

 

[xwalker]

if Richard and lal are the kind of coaches we've been led to believe, there should be plenty of competition among the d-backs and wr's. we haven't really had any competiotion among the wr's for years. we need it now more than ever. the best have to step forward.

Good point about WR competition.

They really haven't had much in several years. In the years with Dez, TWill and Beasley other WRs didn't get many snaps to have a chance to show something.

Despite Butler being somewhat of an idiot, he probably should have had more opportunities. Despite a small sample size his 67% catch rate on passes over 20 yards was impressive.

Rod Woodson ( Raiders Assistant DB coach said in film review prior to the game that they were more concerned abiut Butler than TWill). Butler didn't end up playing that game due to an injury issue.

Noah Brown had 9 targets last season.

 

[Whyjerry]

So I have seen a few bash threads....... Which is normal but I thought I would try and get something going these last 3 weeks before camp starts that can bring some positivity. Feel free to add any y'all want to talk about.


QB backup spot
The Mike White and Cooper Rush battle will be very important this training camp. We will decide to keep 2 QBs or 3. Perhaps make a trade for a defender with the one that doesn't win the backup spot. We have seen what happens when our starting QB goes down with injury so having a QB that can win some games in that time will be crucial in this quest for 6....... Prediction Mike White wins the job and Rush is traded. Only keeping 2 QBs will allow us to go long at positions like WR, RB or TE.


RB back up spots
Zeke is starter with no questions asked. I believe Rod is the backup with no questions as well. That brings us to the guys behind those two. Will Austin be classified as a running back or receiver? You have Bo that was drafted with upside and Darius Jackson but how will he perform coming back from the season ending injury. I think we keep 4 backs so only 2 will make it from Bo, Jackson and maybe Austin. If Austin goes as a receiver than I'm predicting Bo and Jackson both make it.

TE all spots up for grabs
Now we come to the first position without a for sure starter. Swaim has the experience, Shultz and Jarwin will get a chance at starting as well. Rico I'm not sure will even make the team but has some upside especially as a receiving threat. David Wells has some potential but maybe he gets a look at FB with Jamize. My prediction that Shultz will win the job but Jarwin and Swaim will get plenty of playing time as well.

WR all spots
Receivers has a ton of numbers and many combinations could make the team. Hurns and Gallop are locks in my opinion which leaves 4 spots open. Some feel Beasley is a lock and it's possible but I don't feel that way. Wilson, Noah Brown, Cannon, Lenoir, Thompson, maybe Austin, Williams and Beasley will all be competing for those spots. It's possible we try and trade another receiver away but not a ton of value in these guys. I think Wilson will surprise a ton of people and will be a top 4 receiver on this team. Receiver cuts will be difficult and some fan favorites might be in the chopping block. If Austin isn't a receiver my 6 would be...... Hurns, Gallop, Wilson, Beasley, Thompson, Noah Brown.


OL.......
This group is pretty much set both starters and backups. Only thing will be decided is how many we keep 8-10. I think we go with 8 maybe 9 allowing us to go deep at other positions. Can Green redeem himself and beat our Martin or Looney......I don't think so.

DE backups and RE starter
Lawrence is starter at LE and really no question about it. Crawford on the other hand could be the starter at RE or go back to DT with Collins injury and Irving suspension. DE is really deep and the battles that happen behind Lawrence will be great to watch. Gregory will be back but will he make a push? Taco improved as the season went on so can he win that starting spot. Ealy is a veteran who has played in the Superbowl, can Tapper stay healthy. Armstrong is a guy we drafted and has some skill. Do we keep 4 or 5? Tons of talent do we try and trade one away? My prediction is Lawrence and Taco are starters but Gregory, Early and Armstrong will get plenty of game time. Tapper already had an injury so not a good start so far.

DT??????
Is clearly the weak spot on DL. Irving is suspended and Collins is injured. Ward might excel at DT and to be honest might be starter week 1. I think Crawford will play DT since we have issues there and a ton of talent at the end spots. You still have guys like Jones and Price and maybe even Neal that can make the team as backups giving the issues with Collins and Irving. I think we need to go high in the draft next year for a DT and from what I understand Dallas has wanted Donald and Vea in the past few drafts. Could you imagine the DL had we gotten both of them. Lawrence, Vea, Donald, Taco/Gregory........wow. We wouldn't have Leighton or Zack Martin though but maybe the OL would have been Tyron, Collins, Frederick, Williams, Fleming. Dominant DL and a very good OL.....I like

LB
I decided to put all 3 LB spots together. Lee is easily the only for sure starter. That leaves 2 starting spots and all backup spots for grabs. Leighton and Jaylon most likely will be the other 2 starters but who plays which spot. I think Leighton will take the middle and put Jaylon in the outside. Will Wilson step up or does guys like Thomas, Covington, Quiero and the guy we signed from Seattle push him off the roster. The backups will be wide open and will be interesting to watch battle it out.

CB.....3-6 open
With Byron moving to corner it's clear he is the starter. Awuzie will start on the other side. Brown has taken reps over Lewis but that will be a battle to watch for the 3rd and 4th spot. The next 2 spots will be open for Thomas, White and Kelly to battle out. With Kris Richards I think White will surprise people as his skill set fits well for what he likes. The secondary is young with a ton of upside.

Safety thin but set
Heath and Woods are the starters with Frazier as the backup. The undrafted guy, I think Robinson is his name, will have a chance to be the backup FS. Right now only 3 are no doubt making the roster, some want to see a trade for Earl Thomas and maybe we do that. If so the safety spots go from being thin to being a real strength.

Special teams guys are set and need no backups as L.P, Jones and Bailey are all 3 some of the best at their position.

Kick and punt return man
Austin is considered the punt returner and maybe Thompson as the kick returner. I think both returning spots are wide open and a battle I'm excited to watch play out in camp. Switzer was in the top 10 last season in both kick and punt returns but it's no longer in the team. That opens the door and hopefully we take a step forward and not a step backwards. Switzer took 1 to the house last season and gave us some big returns to help give our offense a short field. Austin can do that with punts but not kick offs. My prediction is Austin in punts and Thompson on kickoffs.




All in all I see a ton of battles that will go on in camp this season. We have starting jobs on the line and backup jobs on the line. Some fan favorites won't make the team and it's possible we make some trades or more signings before completing the final 53. I pray for a healthy camp and preseason and can't wait to see these guys battle it out for a chance to play on America's Team.

Heath being a starting S drives me nuts. That guy??? All these picks and FAs and Jeff Heath is still our starter.

 

[cern]

Good point about WR competition.

They really haven't had much in several years. In the years with Dez, TWill and Beasley other WRs didn't get many snaps to have a chance to show something.

Despite Butler being somewhat of an idiot, he probably should have had more opportunities. Despite a small sample size his 67% catch rate on passes over 20 yards was impressive.

Rod Woodson ( Raiders Assistant DB coach said in film review prior to the game that they were more concerned abiut Butler than TWill). Butler didn't end up playing that game due to an injury issue.

Noah Brown had 9 targets last season.

I think butler and brown both should have been used more. sometimes there's an advantage to being an unknown. and one wr in particular should have been used less.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He is a fringe player for practically any roster. Are you convinced the fact you "trust him more" is simple familiarity?

You claim that with nothing supporting it. It has nothing to do with "trust."

1T has a role. Eat up blocks for the OG and C. You can put on games and watch Price draw double teams and combos and see him sit down and even push them.

You can call him whatever dismissive label you like but if he can do what he did last year then he fulfills the role just fine.

While the 1T is a read and react position, pass rush does help and you can watch Price use his long arms and extend and his strength to disengage using swim and rip moves. He has decent short area quickness to finish too.

I have seen you bashing Price a half dozen times this offseason and your arguments are little more than labels with nothing to support them. Try talking about his play of the field for once please with specific examples of play as it was on the field instead please.

 

[xwalker]

I think butler and brown both should have been used more. sometimes there's an advantage to being an unknown. and one wr in particular should have been used less.

With Dez never fully comprehending the scheme or route running, it made it more difficult to use inexperienced players at the other WR spots. I think the coaches wanted the experience of Beasley/TWill to offset the unpredictible issues with Dez.

TWill is not that good but his best skill is that he understands the scheme and generally runs routes the way the coaches expect them to be run.

Dez made game planning and play calling very difficult. They had to give him many targets or he would completely lose focus and/or would become a big distraction. Add in that he was unpredictible in terms of where he would end up in his routes and it becomes extremely difficult to call plays.

Once defenses quit doubling Dez, then it made the offense really difficult to execute.

 

[Verdict]

So I have seen a few bash threads....... Which is normal but I thought I would try and get something going these last 3 weeks before camp starts that can bring some positivity. Feel free to add any y'all want to talk about.


QB backup spot
The Mike White and Cooper Rush battle will be very important this training camp. We will decide to keep 2 QBs or 3. Perhaps make a trade for a defender with the one that doesn't win the backup spot. We have seen what happens when our starting QB goes down with injury so having a QB that can win some games in that time will be crucial in this quest for 6....... Prediction Mike White wins the job and Rush is traded. Only keeping 2 QBs will allow us to go long at positions like WR, RB or TE.

I think we will keep all 3 qbs assuming they show some promise.


RB back up spots
Zeke is starter with no questions asked. I believe Rod is the backup with no questions as well. That brings us to the guys behind those two. Will Austin be classified as a running back or receiver? You have Bo that was drafted with upside and Darius Jackson but how will he perform coming back from the season ending injury. I think we keep 4 backs so only 2 will make it from Bo, Jackson and maybe Austin. If Austin goes as a receiver than I'm predicting Bo and Jackson both make it.

We won't keep Zeke, Rod, Austin, Darius, and Bo as Rbs. Olewale will likely make the roster and can also pinch hit at RB. We will probably keep Zeke, and two others, plus Olewale. That's it. Granted Austin could be counted as a reciver or a RB. But I think Austin makes the roster.

That likely means Rob, Bo and Darius are fighting for one roster spot, although they could keep two and go short at receiver. Special teams ability may be the deciding factor here.

TE all spots up for grabs
Now we come to the first position without a for sure starter. Swaim has the experience, Shultz and Jarwin will get a chance at starting as well. Rico I'm not sure will even make the team but has some upside especially as a receiving threat. David Wells has some potential but maybe he gets a look at FB with Jamize. My prediction that Shultz will win the job but Jarwin and Swaim will get plenty of playing time as well.

We will keep no more than 3 on the 53, and I have no idea who they will be. an OL might be the emergency/jumbo tight end.

WR all spots
Receivers has a ton of numbers and many combinations could make the team. Hurns and Gallop are locks in my opinion which leaves 4 spots open. Some feel Beasley is a lock and it's possible but I don't feel that way. Wilson, Noah Brown, Cannon, Lenoir, Thompson, maybe Austin, Williams and Beasley will all be competing for those spots. It's possible we try and trade another receiver away but not a ton of value in these guys. I think Wilson will surprise a ton of people and will be a top 4 receiver on this team. Receiver cuts will be difficult and some fan favorites might be in the chopping block. If Austin isn't a receiver my 6 would be...... Hurns, Gallop, Wilson, Beasley, Thompson, Noah Brown.

Hurns, Gallop and Beasley are probably locks. That leaves Wilson, Williams, Thompson and Noah Brown fighting for of two roster spot. I think Austin will count as a rb, but will have postion flex, so we are only keeping 5 true WR. I think Wilson makes the roster as of today. Thompson will get the other due to his speed unless they value Brown's blocking ability too much. Williams has probably played his last play in Dallas.


OL.......
This group is pretty much set both starters and backups. Only thing will be decided is how many we keep 8-10. I think we go with 8 maybe 9 allowing us to go deep at other positions. Can Green redeem himself and beat our Martin or Looney......I don't think so.

Yeah, depth is the issue here.

DE backups and RE starter
Lawrence is starter at LE and really no question about it. Crawford on the other hand could be the starter at RE or go back to DT with Collins injury and Irving suspension. DE is really deep and the battles that happen behind Lawrence will be great to watch. Gregory will be back but will he make a push? Taco improved as the season went on so can he win that starting spot. Ealy is a veteran who has played in the Superbowl, can Tapper stay healthy. Armstrong is a guy we drafted and has some skill. Do we keep 4 or 5? Tons of talent do we try and trade one away? My prediction is Lawrence and Taco are starters but Gregory, Early and Armstrong will get plenty of game time. Tapper already had an injury so not a good start so far.

This unit is interesting. Its unsettled because you don't really know if the team plans on keeping Lawrence around next year or not. The team spent a 4th round pick on a DE when the end spot already had a log jam. I don't think Ealy has as good of a chance to make the roster as many do. He has been a chronic underperformer. I think Tapper makes the roster if he is healthy. If he's not he either goes to IR or is gone.

Crawford could get the surprise axe. Gregory is the wild card. I don't think he makes the roster unless he sets the world on fire, because if you keep him and he gets suspended again, it really puts you behind the eight ball if you plan on being flexible in possibly letting Lawrence go. They will keep Lawrence and Taco (because of draft position only). Armstrong probably sticks because of draft position. Don't be surprised if we keep 6 DEs if Gregory makes the roster. You can't count on him, and we aren't going to put ourselves behind the 8 ball with Lawrence.

DT??????
Is clearly the weak spot on DL. Irving is suspended and Collins is injured. Ward might excel at DT and to be honest might be starter week 1. I think Crawford will play DT since we have issues there and a ton of talent at the end spots. You still have guys like Jones and Price and maybe even Neal that can make the team as backups giving the issues with Collins and Irving. I think we need to go high in the draft next year for a DT and from what I understand Dallas has wanted Donald and Vea in the past few drafts. Could you imagine the DL had we gotten both of them. Lawrence, Vea, Donald, Taco/Gregory........wow. We wouldn't have Leighton or Zack Martin though but maybe the OL would have been Tyron, Collins, Frederick, Williams, Fleming. Dominant DL and a very good OL.....I like.

We will go short at DT. Its almost a lock. Crawford could be kept as a DE/DT. We will only keep 3 real DTS on the roster if Collins and Tapper start the season on tome sort of injury/suspension list.

LB
I decided to put all 3 LB spots together. Lee is easily the only for sure starter. That leaves 2 starting spots and all backup spots for grabs. Leighton and Jaylon most likely will be the other 2 starters but who plays which spot. I think Leighton will take the middle and put Jaylon in the outside. Will Wilson step up or does guys like Thomas, Covington, Quiero and the guy we signed from Seattle push him off the roster. The backups will be wide open and will be interesting to watch battle it out.

Agreed. Lee, Jaylon and LVE. will be the starters. Don't know much else on this one. Covington will probably stick as a cheap draft pick.

CB.....3-6 open
With Byron moving to corner it's clear he is the starter. Awuzie will start on the other side. Brown has taken reps over Lewis but that will be a battle to watch for the 3rd and 4th spot. The next 2 spots will be open for Thomas, White and Kelly to battle out. With Kris Richards I think White will surprise people as his skill set fits well for what he likes. The secondary is young with a ton of upside.

Don't know who will start, but the secondary is deep and talented. Should be a team strength.

Safety thin but set
Heath and Woods are the starters with Frazier as the backup. The undrafted guy, I think Robinson is his name, will have a chance to be the backup FS. Right now only 3 are no doubt making the roster, some want to see a trade for Earl Thomas and maybe we do that. If so the safety spots go from being thin to being a real strength.

Safties will play well this year, but thin depth currently at safety.

Special teams guys are set and need no backups as L.P, Jones and Bailey are all 3 some of the best at their position.

Im not sure Bailey is still automatic. It remains to be seen. L. P. IS getting OLD.

Kick and punt return man
Austin is considered the punt returner and maybe Thompson as the kick returner. I think both returning spots are wide open and a battle I'm excited to watch play out in camp. Switzer was in the top 10 last season in both kick and punt returns but it's no longer in the team. That opens the door and hopefully we take a step forward and not a step backwards. Switzer took 1 to the house last season and gave us some big returns to help give our offense a short field. Austin can do that with punts but not kick offs. My prediction is Austin in punts and Thompson on kickoffs.

They should make it an open competition. Let the best man win.


All in all I see a ton of battles that will go on in camp this season. We have starting jobs on the line and backup jobs on the line. Some fan favorites won't make the team and it's possible we make some trades or more signings before completing the final 53. I pray for a healthy camp and preseason and can't wait to see these guys battle it out for a chance to play on America's Team.

There will always be surprises that no one sees coming. It happens almost every year. This year is not likely to be any different.

Better hope Dak and Zeke and the OL stay healthy.

 

[Verdict]

With Dez never fully comprehending the scheme or route running, it made it more difficult to use inexperienced players at the other WR spots. I think the coaches wanted the experience of Beasley/TWill to offset the unpredictible issues with Dez.

TWill is not that good but his best skill is that he understands the scheme and generally runs routes the way the coaches expect them to be run.

Dez made game planning and play calling very difficult. They had to give him many targets or he would completely lose focus and/or would become a big distraction. Add in that he was unpredictible in terms of where he would end up in his routes and it becomes extremely difficult to call plays.

Once defenses quit doubling Dez, then it made the offense really difficult to execute.

Agreed. I am just not sure TWill makes the roster this year, even though his guaranteed money says he will. Don't be surprised if he is a cut.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Morris isn't on the team anymore

Call on Morris as in FA and if he is free.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Heath being a starting S drives me nuts. That guy??? All these picks and FAs and Jeff Heath is still our starter.

I would rather have Frazier starting with Heath rotating in. From some reason his biggest plays are when he is coming in.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Call on Morris as in FA and if he is free.

I like Rod, Bo and Jackson all better than Morris. Perhaps bring Murray back before Morris haha