Two coaching issues that are a problem?

[DandyDon52]

Ok here is a link to a good write up on the Atlanta game, and where I got this quote.
http://beta.sportsdaydfw.com/dallas...-morning-falcons-accept-gifts-deal-punishment

Now here are what I see as problems, that helped lose the Atlanta game and will hurt in other games,
and the 2nd one has hurt in past games.

1."because since the game is over, the view that Brandon Weeden is out of his depths has been offered (by me!) and while that is true, we must be fair to him or anyone else who will replace Romo in the next 6 games.

The truth is, whether the backup QB is Jon Kitna, Kyle Orton, Brandon Weeden, or even Matt Cassel, the coaching staff of the Cowboys gives these QBs a very strict directive that you should look to check the ball down in almost every situation.

Now, this directive could change as the team desires to remain in the race for the NFC East and the playoffs during this absence, but for now, if you talk to anyone close to the situation, you will quickly arrive at the conclusion that the play-calling and coaching directives all repeat the instructions loudly to any QB not wearing #9: Make safe throws."

So this confirms what I said after the game, that weedon was told to throw the checkdowns, and essentially
his hands were tied, and he knew coaches had no confidence in him as a "regular" QB !!
This to me is very negative, and will not lead to wins against good teams.

To me they should call and approach the game as normal , and let wheedon do same plays as Romo.
you could have certain things, like dont throw when rolling to the left lol, or if dump offs are open take them,
but he has to throw down field sometimes and to wr, it is part of the game and whatever happens so be it.
They are going to lose anyway if they dont.
I find it amazing JG has this philosophy with backups, having been one himself.
________________
2.http://beta.sportsdaydfw.com/dallas...-need-quickly-figure-new-rb-christine-michael
Question: Why do the Cowboys only rush four guys on every important third-down play? Matt Ryan just picked us apart -- like taking candy from a baby. Rod Marinelli got out coached. Thoughts?

Gosselin: "This defense is built to rush the passer with a four-man front and then use the back seven players to flood zones and smother receivers. But the four-man front has to get to the quarterback and make him throw the ball before he wants to. If you can't pressure the quarterback, you might as well drop all 11 into coverage and take your chances. Right now, this front can't get to the quarterback."

This is a good approach if you have 4 great DL, and also depending on who they are playing.
But as in games in the past (GB last year) they could not get to Ryan with the 4 DL , yet they went with it
with no adjustments. No innovations.
Other teams send LB's thru gaps on delayed blitz, and it works very well against us, Romo got his injury
from just such a rusher in philly game, and last year in wash game.
So it seems to me if other teams can do it so effectively against us , why cant the cowboys employ this effectively ????
They could have done this in 2nd half of this game , but no they went with what they usually do.

I think these are 2 big flaws in the thinking of our coaching staff, that they need to rethink.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Sorry to say because I really want Garrett to succeed... But... When you don't run... You get this!

Outcoached!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Sorry to say because I really want Garrett to succeed... But... When you don't run... You get this!

Outcoached!

he did run. even in the second half. all 1st downs in the second half except in the last 3 minutes were runs. 4 times they went for negative yards and one other time for 2 yards, so we were in 2nd and long situations. I think the problem wasn't running the ball. it was not passing down field.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

he did run. even in the second half. all 1st downs in the second half except in the last 3 minutes were runs. 4 times they went for negative yards and were in 2nd and long situations. I think the problem wasn't running the ball. it was not passing down field.

Thank you for completing my post
I'm just tired of posting that.

 

[BourbonBalz]

I can't say I disagree with either of the OP's thoughts.

 

[Kevinicus]

On point 2...I thought we blitzed too often to be honest. Not only did we still not get pressure, but we had less guys in coverage. Maybe it just seemed that way, and I'm wrong, but that's how I felt during the game.

 

[Tabascocat]

It is a coaching fail when you go into a season knowing that who you named backup can't even be a backup. Weeden should have not made the team if they knew he could not do the job going in.

 

[BAT]

Question: Why do the Cowboys only rush four guys on every important third-down play? Matt Ryan just picked us apart -- like taking candy from a baby. Rod Marinelli got out coached. Thoughts?

Gosselin: "This defense is built to rush the passer with a four-man front and then use the back seven players to flood zones and smother receivers. But the four-man front has to get to the quarterback and make him throw the ball before he wants to. If you can't pressure the quarterback, you might as well drop all 11 into coverage and take your chances. Right now, this front can't get to the quarterback."

This is a good approach if you have 4 great DL, and also depending on who they are playing.
But as in games in the past (GB last year) they could not get to Ryan with the 4 DL , yet they went with it
with no adjustments. No innovations.
Other teams send LB's thru gaps on delayed blitz, and it works very well against us, Romo got his injury
from just such a rusher in philly game, and last year in wash game.
So it seems to me if other teams can do it so effectively against us , why cant the cowboys employ this effectively ????
They could have done this in 2nd half of this game , but no they went with what they usually do.

I think these are 2 big flaws in the thinking of our coaching staff, that they need to rethink.

Cowboys tried blitzing LBs in the 2nd half and got burned up the middle several times. If the blitz is not something you practice, it stands to reason that you will not be very good at doing. If the fit is right, then you blitz, but once you start forcing it out of desperation, then will be doomed to giving up BIG plays.

 

[BAT]

he did run. even in the second half. all 1st downs in the second half except in the last 3 minutes were runs. 4 times they went for negative yards and were in 2nd and long situations. I think the problem wasn't running the ball. it was not passing down field.

They tried running it up the gut against a loaded box, then tried running outside but used the wrong personnel. Should have used DMC or even Dunbar to attack the edges those 2 times, not Randle.

 

[gmoney112]

1) You can't have a backup with the same game plan as a starter, because backups aren't that good. You saw what happened the one play Weeden tried to improvise, he threw it right into a defender. A backup is a backup for a reason.

You play the game simple to stop turnover's, which backups are prone to do. Plain and simple.

Weeden put a leash on himself. His inability to read a defensive scheme in live action is why he'll never crack a starting lineup. He can't improvise. He can't take advantage of a scheme. If the "fail safe" option is closed, he suffers.

That's been his problem since he got here. He's always been prone to the checkdown, even in training camp that was his major flaw, he ALWAYS checked down. Yeah it was part of the game plan because we didn't want to turn the ball over, but come on dude, you see 9 guys in the box and you're still going to hand it off? He has no game recognition and he lacks confidence.

2) Marinelli would look like a genius if he had any of the regular horses on the DL.

This reminds me of 2013 when people blamed Rod because Caesar Rayford and Martez Wilson and the rest of the misfits couldn't get pressure.

The risk you run when your top 3 defensive ends are out and you're starting a WLB on some snaps at DE, is that if you blitz and don't get pressure, you're setting yourself up for a huge play. Some people don't realize that blitzing more guys doesn't causate more success. Look at Rob Ryan.

The GB is a terrible example. Teams that usually beat GB have excellent defensive fronts. When they blitz it's because they know at least two or 3 guys are going to give the opposing OL fits, and bringing extra pressure allows them to make more plays. I'd wager Rodgers passer rating against teams that don't have top notch front 7's is probably astronomical when they blitz.

You need talent on the DL (or LB in a 3-4) to make a defense work. The "secret" isn't blitzing more, it's getting players healthy so we can actually provide pressure from the end position where it all starts. If anything, i'd like seeing more slot CB blitzes.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They tried running it up the gut against a loaded box, then tried running outside but used the wrong personnel. Should have used DMC or even Dunbar to attack the edges those 2 times, not Randle.

I don't think that would have mattered, not consistently at least. when you have 8 or 9 in the box, they will string the play out and cover the running lanes. outside runs take longer to develop and Atlanta played disciplined defense. we shortened the field for their defense so they didn't have to defend the whole field. they only had to defend 10 yards from LOS.

 

[BAT]

I don't think that would have mattered, not consistently at least. when you have 8 or 9 in the box, they will string the play out and cover the running lanes. outside runs take longer to develop and Atlanta played disciplined defense. we shortened the field for their defense so they didn't have to defend the whole field. they only had to defend 10 yards from LOS.

I agree, not having vertical threats allowed the entire D to load the short and middle zones. Falcons were begging Weeden to throw long and he refused each and every time. Whether coaches, or Weeden, lacked the nads to force the D to back off who really knows but it's very troubling. That doesn't change the fact that running to the edges requires a speed back more often than not to succeed, which is definitely not Randle's forte.

 

[DandyDon52]

@Gmoney
N.O. also started a backup who did not play in 2014 and may not have even been on the team last year,
and here are stats to compare, think anyone can see the difference, and that a backup although not as good as the starter, should
be fully functional in all areas !
Luke went down field and spread the ball around like a starter would, he was not limited to RB's and the only reason they lost
was a great play by a db on the int.

L. McCown 31/38 310 0 1

Receiving REC YDS TD LG
B. Cooks 7 79 0 16
M. Ingram 5 49 0 23
M. Colston 4 47 0 22
W. Snead 5 44 0 15
B. Watson 4 42 0 20
C. Spiller 2 22 0 19
J. Hill 1 10 0 10
B. Coleman 1 9 0 9
K. Robinson 2 8 0 4

B. Weeden 22/26 232 0 1

Receiving REC YDS TD LG
L. Dunbar 10 100 0 22
J. Witten 6 65 0 19
C. Beasley 4 49 0 20
J. Randle 2 18 0 9

 

[DandyDon52]

I agree, not having vertical threats allowed the entire D to load the short and middle zones. Falcons were begging Weeden to throw long and he refused each and every time. Whether coaches, or Weeden, lacked the nads to force the D to back off who really knows but it's very troubling. That doesn't change the fact that running to the edges requires a speed back more often than not to succeed, which is definitely not Randle's forte.

due to the coaches as in the article, weedon was afraid to try a deep pass, as he was told/coached to throw safe passes only.

 

[DandyDon52]

Cowboys tried blitzing LBs in the 2nd half and got burned up the middle several times. If the blitz is not something you practice, it stands to reason that you will not be very good at doing. If the fit is right, then you blitz, but once you start forcing it out of desperation, then will be doomed to giving up BIG plays.

Well they might want to practice it !
And I am not saying all out blitz, but just one LB on a delayed rush thru a gap, there are always gaps. It isnt that complicated lol.

 

[Aven8]

1) You can't have a backup with the same game plan as a starter, because backups aren't that good. You saw what happened the one play Weeden tried to improvise, he threw it right into a defender. A backup is a backup for a reason.

You play the game simple to stop turnover's, which backups are prone to do. Plain and simple.

Weeden put a leash on himself. His inability to read a defensive scheme in live action is why he'll never crack a starting lineup. He can't improvise. He can't take advantage of a scheme. If the "fail safe" option is closed, he suffers.

That's been his problem since he got here. He's always been prone to the checkdown, even in training camp that was his major flaw, he ALWAYS checked down. Yeah it was part of the game plan because we didn't want to turn the ball over, but come on dude, you see 9 guys in the box and you're still going to hand it off? He has no game recognition and he lacks confidence.

2) Marinelli would look like a genius if he had any of the regular horses on the DL.

This reminds me of 2013 when people blamed Rod because Caesar Rayford and Martez Wilson and the rest of the misfits couldn't get pressure.

The risk you run when your top 3 defensive ends are out and you're starting a WLB on some snaps at DE, is that if you blitz and don't get pressure, you're setting yourself up for a huge play. Some people don't realize that blitzing more guys doesn't causate more success. Look at Rob Ryan.

The GB is a terrible example. Teams that usually beat GB have excellent defensive fronts. When they blitz it's because they know at least two or 3 guys are going to give the opposing OL fits, and bringing extra pressure allows them to make more plays. I'd wager Rodgers passer rating against teams that don't have top notch front 7's is probably astronomical when they blitz.

You need talent on the DL (or LB in a 3-4) to make a defense work. The "secret" isn't blitzing more, it's getting players healthy so we can actually provide pressure from the end position where it all starts. If anything, i'd like seeing more slot CB blitzes.

 

[TrailBlazer]

I think the coaches are smart enough to know you can't dink and dunk all day long to get wins in the NFL. Need to do a better job scheming guys open downfield.

Also, Marinelli's philosophies have worked in this league for a long long time. The key is to have the TALENT to EXECUTE those schemes. Sunday we did not have it bc were missing 3 top pass rushers.

 

[DandyDon52]

They tried running it up the gut against a loaded box, then tried running outside but used the wrong personnel. Should have used DMC or even Dunbar to attack the edges those 2 times, not Randle.

I would like to see mcfadden get a whole game like randle has, he looked good on the td drive he was in on.
But I dont think it would have made a difference in 2nd half, as atlanta was out to stop the run, and flood the short zone.
They were also dominating our best O line in nfl on most plays.
Dallas was 3 and out or close to it, and did not have the ball much as Atlanta was the one going on long time consuming drives.
Dallas only converted 1 3rd down the whole game.
Dallas defense with no pressure on ryan could not stop the passing game, and then they ran good too, so one helped the other, and our defense
was on the field most of 2nd half.
The dallas offense being limited and with guys out, could not do anything once Atlanta adjusted.
and our coaches never adjusted to what was happening in 2nd half.

Atlanta had allowed over 600 yards passing in previous 2 games, so we should have been able to throw on them, and if we had the run would
have been there in 2nd half too.
The Atlanta offense is good, and if they get hot, and you cant pressure ryan, then they are going to score a lot of points.

That game is over, I just wonder if they are going to tie weedons hands again against N.O., or can he be cool under pressure and throw down field?
He is going to make mistakes or bad throws, but he should make some good throws too, and the wr and others need to step up and catch them.

If Cassell suits up wheedon will have pressure on him and think he will be pulled at any moment?
I think this last game destroyed any confidence weedon may have had.

Might be better to just start cassell, and let him have a warm up game before NE, it is insane to start him first time against NE.
And also dont tell him to play it safe, tell him to throw anywhere he wants!

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

1) You can't have a backup with the same game plan as a starter, because backups aren't that good. You saw what happened the one play Weeden tried to improvise, he threw it right into a defender. A backup is a backup for a reason.

You play the game simple to stop turnover's, which backups are prone to do. Plain and simple.

Weeden put a leash on himself. His inability to read a defensive scheme in live action is why he'll never crack a starting lineup. He can't improvise. He can't take advantage of a scheme. If the "fail safe" option is closed, he suffers.

That's been his problem since he got here. He's always been prone to the checkdown, even in training camp that was his major flaw, he ALWAYS checked down. Yeah it was part of the game plan because we didn't want to turn the ball over, but come on dude, you see 9 guys in the box and you're still going to hand it off? He has no game recognition and he lacks confidence.

2) Marinelli would look like a genius if he had any of the regular horses on the DL.

This reminds me of 2013 when people blamed Rod because Caesar Rayford and Martez Wilson and the rest of the misfits couldn't get pressure.

The risk you run when your top 3 defensive ends are out and you're starting a WLB on some snaps at DE, is that if you blitz and don't get pressure, you're setting yourself up for a huge play. Some people don't realize that blitzing more guys doesn't causate more success. Look at Rob Ryan.

The GB is a terrible example. Teams that usually beat GB have excellent defensive fronts. When they blitz it's because they know at least two or 3 guys are going to give the opposing OL fits, and bringing extra pressure allows them to make more plays. I'd wager Rodgers passer rating against teams that don't have top notch front 7's is probably astronomical when they blitz.

You need talent on the DL (or LB in a 3-4) to make a defense work. The "secret" isn't blitzing more, it's getting players healthy so we can actually provide pressure from the end position where it all starts. If anything, i'd like seeing more slot CB blitzes.

You can play "that" way when you have the Buccaneers defense that won a Super Bowl, the Ravens defense that won a Super Bowl in 2002 etc....you cannot play it that way when you have the defense we trotted out on Sunday. I was stunned we scored 28 with this bum....but against a high powered offense....you HAVE to score points. So giving Weeden a game plan that scores 17 points is....POINTLESS....if the opposition is going to score 35! What do we have to lose? We are going to lose scoring 17.....so if you NEED 30+...then TRY to score 30+!!!!!!

Why have the money you have invested in Dez..the money/draft picks invested in this OL...the investement in Beasley or Witten....if you are not going to try and score? These WRs and TEs we have are not even great in the run game (except Witten)....so why strap all of these sports car parts....with a station wagon QB? Weeden is who this organization decided to roll with...so take the training wheels off and lets try to win a couple of games!

 

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