Underrated and Overrated Prospects

[jterrell]

It will be interesting to see what his numbers are at the combine.

I think if I had to pick a guy between he an Upshaw, I'd take Ingram.

That being said, I don't think Ingram is more athletic than Spencer was coming out of Purdue.

I think Ingram's production has been good... Very good. 10 sacks in 13 games. But I'm not sure he's been dominant given his physical abilities. He had the monster game vs Auburn, but in 8 other games he never registered a sack.

Like I said, the combine will be interesting.

Ingram is far more explosive than Spencer ever has been. They have totally different body builds. Ingram is all quick twitch muscle. He is 20 pounds heavier and much shorter with most of that weight being muscle in his lower body.

Spencer had everything else, nice technique, solid strength and balance but he didn't have that quick powerful burst that Ingram does.

Spencer was a safer pick but also one with a more defined ceiling. Ingram could end up a 10 sack guy in the right situation or a guy who can't play except as a pure pass rusher.

Ingram is a top 15 guy period. Spencer was a late first round prospect.

 

[jterrell]

It will be interesting to see what his numbers are at the combine.

I think if I had to pick a guy between he an Upshaw, I'd take Ingram.

That being said, I don't think Ingram is more athletic than Spencer was coming out of Purdue.

I think Ingram's production has been good... Very good. 10 sacks in 13 games. But I'm not sure he's been dominant given his physical abilities. He had the monster game vs Auburn, but in 8 other games he never registered a sack.

Like I said, the combine will be interesting.

Ingram played a lot of DT and LB in the SEC. He didn't play a pure pass rushing role very often. He was a middle linebacker prospect coming out of high school. He ended up first team all-SEC as a heck of a DL who could hold the line versus the run and also get pressure. He also had 9 sacks as a junior.

Watching him in the Senior Bowl it is clear he is the most powerful pass rushing prospect and he looks amazingly like James Harrison or Lamarr Woodley with how low he gets and how powerful he is.

I expect Ingram to go off the board before us but he'd me my top overall choice for us of people remotely possible (i.e. after claiborne, luck and rg3).

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ingram played a lot of DT and LB in the SEC. He didn't play a pure pass rushing role very often. He was a middle linebacker prospect coming out of high school. He ended up first team all-SEC as a heck of a DL who could hold the line versus the run and also get pressure. He also had 9 sacks as a junior.

Watching him in the Senior Bowl it is clear he is the most powerful pass rushing prospect and he looks amazingly like James Harrison or Lamarr Woodley with how low he gets and how powerful he is.

I expect Ingram to go off the board before us but he'd me my top overall choice for us of people remotely possible (i.e. after claiborne, luck and rg3).

I'd be pretty sure that Buffalo will be taking a 3-4 OLB.

But that being said, doesn't it bother you that Ingram had 8 games with no sacks this season?

 

[Leadbelly]

I don't see how INgram is overrated.

The guy is a athletic physical freak,
He ran the ball on offense 2 times for 87 yards and a TD this past season.
This is a guy that played three positions on defense depending on what the offense is about to do. IF its a short passing down he goes to OLB to cover. If its a long passing down he goes to DT to get to the QB, He plays DE in running downs and DE in everydown play.
He can play any position.
If we don't get him I just hope NYG doesn't some how trade up to get the guy. He would be a freak on that DL.

Those runs were fake punts - 1 vs georgia for 68 and 1 vs citadel for 19.

Also, 1 of his 2 interceptions came on a pass from a fake field goal, which was thrown by Auburn's holder... a backup defensive back.

Joe DeCamillas will be excited. :

The fact that Ingram isn't rushing from the edge on obvious passing downs...that's not a ginormous red flag to anyone? Isn't that what the team wants/needs?

 

[burmafrd]

Those runs were fake punts - 1 vs georgia for 68 and 1 vs citadel for 19.

Also, 1 of his 2 interceptions came on a pass from a fake field goal, which was thrown by Auburn's holder... a backup defensive back.

Joe DeCamillas will be excited. :

The fact that Ingram isn't rushing from the edge on obvious passing downs...that's not a ginormous red flag to anyone? Isn't that what the team wants/needs?

if we cannot be fairly certain that Ingram will be a serious upgrade to Spencer then he is not worth a first rd pick.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

if we cannot be fairly certain that Ingram will be a serious upgrade to Spencer then he is not worth a first rd pick.

Ingram is already being considered a top-ten pick before the combine, how can he not be worth Dallas' pick in round 1? If Spencer is allowed to walk, pass rusher would be a top priority.

I would find it difficult to turn down De Castro at 14 but I would if Ingram was still on the board. Dallas can find a quality guard in the 2nd round but I doubt they can find a pass rusher.

All I care about, really, is that Dallas draft potential starters at the following positions in the first two rounds: Guard, DE, CB, or outside LB.

 

[Dough Boy]

Those runs were fake punts - 1 vs georgia for 68 and 1 vs citadel for 19.

Also, 1 of his 2 interceptions came on a pass from a fake field goal, which was thrown by Auburn's holder... a backup defensive back.

Joe DeCamillas will be excited. :

The fact that Ingram isn't rushing from the edge on obvious passing downs...that's not a ginormous red flag to anyone? Isn't that what the team wants/needs?

No its not a glaring red flag. Here is why... SC wanted to get their best rushers on the field and someone had to play inside. The right DE was the number 1 overall recruit in the nation. Clowney is 6"6 250lbs, no way he goes inside, plus he is a true freshman. Having him learn two positions was not smart and he is way too small. Keep your eyes on this kid, John Abraham part II.

The left defensive end is Devin Taylor. He is 6'7' 260lbs (listed) looks closer to 250lbs to me. Clowney looks bigger, Taylor looks taller. Taylor looks like Jason Taylor for the Dolphins. He is a pure speed rusher, that can drop back into coverage. No way he kicks inside.

Just based on body-types, coupled with the fact that Ingram was a DT on run downs last year and kicked outside to rush the passer, he was the natural fit to kick back inside on pass downs in order to get Clowney on the field.

 

[Dough Boy]

Ingram played a lot of DT and LB in the SEC. He didn't play a pure pass rushing role very often. He was a middle linebacker prospect coming out of high school. He ended up first team all-SEC as a heck of a DL who could hold the line versus the run and also get pressure. He also had 9 sacks as a junior.

Watching him in the Senior Bowl it is clear he is the most powerful pass rushing prospect and he looks amazingly like James Harrison or Lamarr Woodley with how low he gets and how powerful he is.

I expect Ingram to go off the board before us but he'd me my top overall choice for us of people remotely possible (i.e. after claiborne, luck and rg3).

What I like about Ingram, he is not just a speed rusher. He has multiple moves to the QB. Spin, rip, swim and speed - and he can rush from the 3 tech position just like Justin Tuck.

 

[Dough Boy]

I'd be pretty sure that Buffalo will be taking a 3-4 OLB.

But that being said, doesn't it bother you that Ingram had 8 games with no sacks this season?

Not that concerned. He still showed up in those games. I'm not certain of the number of QB pressures, but if you check those I'm sure he was around the QB. One of those games was against the Citadel and they attempted mabye 5 passes the entire game, so I would rule that one out. Another game he left early in the contest with an injury and so I would exclude that one also. I think he didn't play the following week vs Kentucky.

But to your point, there are a few games he didn't get the QB on the ground, but I think if you watch the tape, he was around the QB when he played, even if he didn't get the sack.

Just to place this in perspective, after the Auburn game and prior to his foot injury, there was National talk about he and the honey badger being on the Heisman watch list. He compiled a three game stretch that was as impressive as anyone this year.

 

[johnnyd]

If no decastro then i want Ingram. If both are gone i hope we trade down. JMO

 

[burmafrd]

Just do not see where Ingram is clearly better then Spencer was coming out of college. Maybe he will measure up a lot better at the combine but at this time from games I have watched he just does not look it.

 

[Gaede]

We're in a pretty crappy spot, IMO. At 14, the elite talent is dried out and the good but not great prospects aren't worth drafting that high. I'm also having trouble finding someone else besides DeCastro who would be good at 14. I like Ingram alot, but I don't think he'll even be there. This is the main reason why I keep thinking one of the top tackles. I'm sure Martin or Rieff will be there for the taking.

I hate the thought of trading down, but I can definitely see us doing that this year.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

We're in a pretty crappy spot, IMO. At 14, the elite talent is dried out and the good but not great prospects aren't worth drafting that high. I'm also having trouble finding someone else besides DeCastro who would be good at 14. I like Ingram alot, but I don't think he'll even be there. This is the main reason why I keep thinking one of the top tackles. I'm sure Martin or Rieff will be there for the taking.

I hate the thought of trading down, but I can definitely see us doing that this year.

I would be all for trading down if I trusted Jerry to actually have a secondary plan.

Dallas can use immediate upgrades (starters) at guard, CB, DE, and outside LB. If he can somehow manage to negotiate four picks in the top 100 he might have a shot at addressing several concerns this off-season.

DeCastro is, in my mind, the only sure pick but Dallas has so many needs overall.

 

[Gaede]

I would be all for trading down if I trusted Jerry to actually have a secondary plan.

Me too. The second we trade down and consequently lose the guy we're targeting, we're in for another Jason Williams/Robert Brewster draft. They're so concerned with value that they won't take a guy they really like in a particular spot, and then trade down to a spot where they can take him, but he's been taken and now they have no one else in that spot that they can take! I dread seeing it happen again....

 

[Dough Boy]

Just do not see where Ingram is clearly better then Spencer was coming out of college. Maybe he will measure up a lot better at the combine but at this time from games I have watched he just does not look it.

If nothing else, Ingram has a better pass rush repertoire than Spencer has today, let alone when Spencer came out of college.

Two; Ingram has played 3 defensive positions in college, LB,DT and DE. Spencer only played DE. Spencer had a monster Sr campaign, whereas Ingram has been steady over the past two years. Ingram has clearly been better than Spencer over the course of their four year college careers. Spencer was mostly an edge speed rusher at Purdue and his speed has not translated in the Pros. Spencer needs to develop a 2nd move (ie, spin, club etc.) Ingram comes to practice day one with a 2nd and 3rd move. He can beat you around the edge, spin or bull rush the tackle.

Almost 20 sacks in the SEC over the last two years is not a fluke.

 

[jterrell]

We're in a pretty crappy spot, IMO. At 14, the elite talent is dried out and the good but not great prospects aren't worth drafting that high. I'm also having trouble finding someone else besides DeCastro who would be good at 14. I like Ingram alot, but I don't think he'll even be there. This is the main reason why I keep thinking one of the top tackles. I'm sure Martin or Rieff will be there for the taking.

I hate the thought of trading down, but I can definitely see us doing that this year.

OTs will go high. Same as pass rushers. OG/RB/OC/Safeties those guys drop.


I do not think either of the top 2 OTs will be on the board at 14.

Last year only one went top 14 but 6 went in R1 and something like 4 started all year. That's real value.

In 2010, 2009 and 2008 3 tackles were taken each year at 14 or lower.

 

[supercowboy8]

Those runs were fake punts - 1 vs georgia for 68 and 1 vs citadel for 19.

Also, 1 of his 2 interceptions came on a pass from a fake field goal, which was thrown by Auburn's holder... a backup defensive back.

Joe DeCamillas will be excited. :

The fact that Ingram isn't rushing from the edge on obvious passing downs...that's not a ginormous red flag to anyone? Isn't that what the team wants/needs?

Have you ever seen a SC game. DO you know who there two other DEs are. Just like when the Giants are on 3rd down they put the best pass rushers on the line. They have two real good DEs that can't play DT, Ingram can play DT so besides making one of your good DEs sit just put Ingram at DT so you have three real good pass rushers.

 

[jterrell]

I'd be pretty sure that Buffalo will be taking a 3-4 OLB.

But that being said, doesn't it bother you that Ingram had 8 games with no sacks this season?

No it doesn't. He played in a run heavy SEC and played a lot inside at DT.
SCar went 6-2 in the SEC. His junior sacks were distributed more evenly. And his Senior Bowl practices indicate if just told go get the QB he can do so.

There were similar questions about Ware coming out IIRC.... 27.5 career sacks but in the Sunbelt conference.

Ingram has 19.5 sacks in the past 2 seasons playing in the top conference in collegiate football and playing multiple positions.

I also believe he is a perfect fit as an OLB and that playing him in a 4-3 (much less at DT) reduces his effectiveness. But if you are SCar and facing Alabama and LSU type offenses that play straight-ahead you have to stop the run.

 

[Dough Boy]

No it doesn't. He played in a run heavy SEC and played a lot inside at DT.
SCar went 6-2 in the SEC. His junior sacks were distributed more evenly. And his Senior Bowl practices indicate if just told go get the QB he can do so.

There were similar questions about Ware coming out IIRC.... 27.5 career sacks but in the Sunbelt conference.

Ingram has 19.5 sacks in the past 2 seasons playing in the top conference in collegiate football and playing multiple positions.

I also believe he is a perfect fit as an OLB and that playing him in a 4-3 (much less at DT) reduces his effectiveness. But if you are SCar and facing Alabama and LSU type offenses that play straight-ahead you have to stop the run.

I agree with you on Ingram. I've watched every game he's played in over the last 4 years.

The question I have for you. What do you think of Whitney Mercilus. I've never watched him play. Give me your thoughts. I need to get up to speed on him.

 

[jterrell]

I agree with you on Ingram. I've watched every game he's played in over the last 4 years.

The question I have for you. What do you think of Whitney Mercilus. I've never watched him play. Give me your thoughts. I need to get up to speed on him.

I need to watch him myself. I hope he is great because it looks like we won't be able to choose Ingram without a trade up

I avoid Big 10 football as much as possible but this kid has an awesome name!