Using the Defensive Talent

[Bob Sacamano]

That said, I hope he at least gradually starts allowing the defense to do more and more over time.

I'll think you'll see that, Bill is no dummy, and has proven that he'll take what's there, and do something else w/ it

 

[ddh33]

I put this in another thread, but I think it applies here too...

So is this turning into a question of Ware versus Merriman? Is this a question about whether or not Ware can rush the passer?

Comparing Ware to Merriman is legit, but it's too difficult to do. Merriman plays in a different system with different surrounding talent. The bottom line is that most people had Ware as a higher rated player in that draft. When it came time to choose, Parcells took Ware and immediately compared him to LT.

Now that we have seen Ware for over a year, I thought all of us were aware of what he could do. I have no question about his ability to get to a QB and create pressure. I'm surprised that anyone else might.

I'm more bothered by how Ware seems to have so little help when it comes to getting to the QB. I'm more bothered by seeing him cover the slot and people coming out of the backfield. Honestly, I'm bothered that he's already getting lumped into the Roy Williams/Julius Jones group of underappreciated players. Just because a guy isn't allowed to shine (for whatever reason) doesn't mean he isn't a very good player.

My hunch is that if you put Roy Williams in the Steelers defense, he would be a defensive player of the year candidate. I think if you put a healthy Julius Jones in a proven system, he would be a back who got a ton of love. If you put Demarcus Ware in San Diego, he wuold be getting all of this credit too.

So why don't these guys shine more here? I truly don't think I'm overrating these players - at least, not by much.

Is it possible that some of the expectations here are unreasonable? That Ware sucks if he doesn't get three sacks in a game? That Newman sucks if he doesn't get three picks a game? That julius sucks if he doesn't get 200 yards a game? That Roy sucks if he isn't all-world all the time?

 

[proline]

I think teams actually put a receiver in the slot on Ware's side sometimes just to force him to cover/re-route the receiver and keep him from blitzing. When that happens, we need to be blitzing RW from Ware's side or letting RW cover the receiver while Ware rushes the QB.

 

[dmq]

Something Parcells said a week or two ago has stuck with me. We currently play 'lane' defense, that is, that a defensive player is responsible for what is essentially two different gaps. I think the idea is that our DL are supposed to clog those lanes and allow the LBers to make plays.

The problem is, I don't think it's working. The Chargers and Pitt's defense, both very successful 3-4 defenses right now, are experts at disruption. They both rely on stunts, misdirection, disguizing and zone coverage schemes to confuse the offensive line and destroy the backfield.

Parcells, on the other hand, does not believe in this. He wants his guys to beat their guys straight up. I personally don't think this works anymore. It is too hard to assemble lineman who can constantly eat up the enormous OL of today and allow LBers to simply blitz their lines without disguise.

In a way, I actually think it is possible that the defensive philosophy of the game today has outdone Parcells. I just don't see him adjusting, either.

But what do I know, you know? I'm no hall of fame coach.

Bingo. I was a guy who defended BP against the can't win without BB theory. Now I tend to believe it. He is an awesome talent evaluator, but he is mistaken if he doesn't believe you need trickery to win

 

[bayarealightning]

I KNOW THAT ALL OF THAT DOESN'T APPLY TO YOUR POST, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT COMPARED TO PITTSBURGH AND SAN DIEGO OUR DEFENSIVE PLAYERS ARE STILL WET BEHIND THE EARS...

Not quite. This is our 3rd year in the 3-4. Our first year in the 3-4 we were number 3 in rushing defense and in our second (last year) we were number 1 in rushing defense. We have Merriman (2nd yr), Castillo (2nd yr), Olshansky (3rd yr), Phillips (3rd yr), Williams (9th yr), Godfrey (11th yr), Edwards (11th yr), Jammer (5th yr), Florence (4th yr), Kiel (4th yr), and McCree (6th yr and new to the team) and Cromartie at nickle (rookie). That is a very young defense.

True the schemes are different but Dallas is supposed to be one of the premire defenses this year. Our secondary has let us down the last two seasons, but they were all young. Now we have McCree to lend veteran leadership and a presence in the secondary. Our defense is going to surprise a lot of people this year (I am not just being hyped over the Raiders game). Our front 7 (one of the best if not THE best front 7 in football) believes that no one can run on them. Any production from the secondary will make them scary good!

 

[Stautner]

Not quite. This is our 3rd year in the 3-4. Our first year in the 3-4 we were number 3 in rushing defense and in our second (last year) we were number 1 in rushing defense. We have Merriman (2nd yr), Castillo (2nd yr), Olshansky (3rd yr), Phillips (3rd yr), Williams (9th yr), Godfrey (11th yr), Edwards (11th yr), Jammer (5th yr), Florence (4th yr), Kiel (4th yr), and McCree (6th yr and new to the team) and Cromartie at nickle (rookie). That is a very young defense.

True the schemes are different but Dallas is supposed to be one of the premire defenses this year. Our secondary has let us down the last two seasons, but they were all young. Now we have McCree to lend veteran leadership and a presence in the secondary. Our defense is going to surprise a lot of people this year (I am not just being hyped over the Raiders game). Our front 7 (one of the best if not THE best front 7 in football) believes that no one can run on them. Any production from the secondary will make them scary good!

I realized that San Diego was much newer to the 3-4 than Pittsburgh, but I thought they had it in place longer than that - my mistake.

Of course, we are even younger, with a rookie, three 2nd year guys, two 4th year guys, two 5th year guys, a 6th year guy and a 9th and 10th year guy., One player is converting this year from DE to OLB, and one is converting this year from OLB to ILB, and almost no one on the defense had ever played 3-4 before last year.

But your point is well taken - success can happen relatively quickly, but 2 things have to happen here. First, Parcells has to gain enough confidence in the group of youngsters to turn them loose a little, and second, the group of youngsters has to prove they are really worthy of the accolades they recieve. Frankly, they haven't proven a whole lot other than they have potential, but way too many fans equate potential with guaranteed success, and history tells us loud and clear that often isn't true.

 

[ravidubey]

Merriman played a team that lost 27-0 and so by definition was always behind and had to pass. Ware played a very good and balanced team that shortened its passing routes and kept in extra defenders primarily to stop him. Apples and freaking oranges when you factor the competition and the situation.

 

[bayarealightning]

I realized that San Diego was much newer to the 3-4 than Pittsburgh, but I thought they had it in place longer than that - my mistake.

Of course, we are even younger, with a rookie, three 2nd year guys, two 4th year guys, two 5th year guys, a 6th year guy and a 9th and 10th year guy., One player is converting this year from DE to OLB, and one is converting this year from OLB to ILB, and almost no one on the defense had ever played 3-4 before last year.

But your point is well taken - success can happen relatively quickly, but 2 things have to happen here. First, Parcells has to gain enough confidence in the group of youngsters to turn them loose a little, and second, the group of youngsters has to prove they are really worthy of the accolades they recieve. Frankly, they haven't proven a whole lot other than they have potential, but way too many fans equate potential with guaranteed success, and history tells us loud and clear that often isn't true.

Very good post and a great reply. Before I posted in here, I used to post over at the Ranch in Scout.com. You will not find a better, well thought out retort especially staying away from any name calling. This is a great board! Props.