Victor Butler Quietly Eyeing Spencer's Starting Spot

[RS12]

you do notice that unless a starter leaves or gets injured, nothing changes around here.

Yea Burm, Gosselin was saying they dont trust young players. Obviously what guys are making and where they were drafted figures in. Still I dont think Butler is better over all, maybe a better pass rusher, about even in coverage.

 

[Future]

Sasquatch, I agree. They may be better off throwing him in the pool and making him swim. The Cowboys have too many holes (on offense and defense) to be held hostage by this position. How many premium picks are the Cowboys going to waste on this position? I say give him a chance before doing anymore suspect moves.

In fact, the Cowboys might discover the Sasquatch before they correctly draft the complement to Ware.

2005: Burnett
2006 Carpenter
2007 Spencer
2008: Butler and Williams

Finding Bigfoot..Now, that is a great show...Watching Dallas draft SOLBs, not so much...

Burnett and Carp were both moved inside...actually Carp's best football came when he was playing OLB opposite of Ware. Neither was meant to be the compliment on the other edge.

As for Butler, he better be quietly practicing getting better, because from what he's shown, he's nowhere near a starting quality OLB.

 

[CATCH17]

If he was going to do it then it would've been this year.

He's just a nice situational guy.

 

[jnday]

I say give Butler his chance at starting , but I would draft someone like V. Curry to rotate with him .

 

[zack]

Miles Austin, Tony Romo, Doug Free, Jason Hatcher.

All guys who did their time on the bench for 2 or more seasons before getting their chance to start. Sometimes, all you need is a real chance.

Generally when he is in, he makes things happen, unlike Spencer. I would welcome it. I want Spencer gone. His time is up. He hasn't panned out.

 

[Picksix]

Generally when he is in, he makes things happen, unlike Spencer. I would welcome it. I want Spencer gone. His time is up. He hasn't panned out.

He had the two big sacks against Carolina, and the big one against Philly in 2009. Other than that, he's been okay, but to say he consistently makes things happen when he's in is a bit of an overstatement. And he hasn't shown he can be effective at all against the run.

You say Spencer hasn't panned out, but I think it's becasue we want a Lamarr Woodley or Clay Matthews in that spot. It's kinda like Reed and Palomalu. We all want to find a safety who's like them, but they just don't exist. If you look at the majority of SOLB's in a 3-4, Spencer is near the top in overall production. Sure, you'd like a guy in that spot who gets to the QB more consistently. The numbers show those guys are few and far between.

And with our DE's being as ineffective as they've been, I wonder how good Woodley would be on this team.

 

[28 Joker]

Burnett and Carp were both moved inside...actually Carp's best football came when he was playing OLB opposite of Ware. Neither was meant to be the compliment on the other edge.

As for Butler, he better be quietly practicing getting better, because from what he's shown, he's nowhere near a starting quality OLB.

Carpenter was Bill Parcells' idea of getting another Mike Vrabel. Greg Ellis was about to be moved to SOLB, and Carpenter was viewed as the long-term solution at SOLB.

The Cowboys tried Burnett on the outside, but he didn't fit. He was too small, and he was not a pure pass rusher. So, the Cowboys moved him inside where he should have been in a 34. Burnett should have been a good inside linebacker in Dallas. I had no problems with the pick, because you could always move him inside. Dallas needed linebackers. Burnett has played pretty good in San Diego and Miami.

As for Butler...I don't care if he may not be the long-term answer. It would be nice if he could plug the hole or help plug the hole for at least a year. Butler has flashed some pass rush ability. I just don't want to give Anthony Spencer significant money or draft the next bust at SOLB in the first or second round, especially with the OL, CB, DL, and S being big areas of concern.

 

[gimmesix]

Some know he is Ware's best friend on the team. He also recently (Pro Bowl last week) did an autograph session for the Arizona Cowboys fan club I am a member of. I didn't make it to that autograph session. However a friend of mine did and he said Butler thinks he will start at SOLB in 2012, but that when he talks about it, he does so quietly as if not to jinx it.

Wondering how you would feel if he does?

Rather than bringing back Spencer to be less than what we need but better than the possible alternative, I'd prefer to see Butler out there.

He could end up being worse, but we're simply spinning our wheels if we bring Spencer back to start on a defense that didn't have an adequate pass rush, outside of Ware, and was simply the weakness of the team.

If Butler ends up being Plan A, though, I hope Dallas has a Plan B in mind. If we address needs in the defensive backfield and offensive line through free agency/first round, I'd certainly have OLB on my shopping list in the second and third rounds, depending how they fall.

Wouldn't mind, of course, if we just found a suitable starting candidate in free agency ... just as long as it's not Spencer. We need new starting blood at the position.

 

[fortdick]

Maybe he has been talking with Spencer and the other players and knows something about Spencer's contract we don't. Like maybe Spencer has talked about leaving. If that is the case, then, by default, Butler is the starter.

 

[TheFinisher]

I've been wanting to see Butler in an expanded role for 2 seasons now so I would welcome it. He's made the most of his opportunities up until this point, if the team feels confident about him why not?

 

[beevomav]

Cowboys still need another outside rusher if they are looking to get better. Without a pass rush the defense will be exactly the same sorry lot of last season and we will get to hear Ryan take the blame again.

Butler is a guy and they need another stud to rush the passer.

 

[jblaze2004]

Miles Austin, Tony Romo, Doug Free, Jason Hatcher.

All guys who did their time on the bench for 2 or more seasons before getting their chance to start. Sometimes, all you need is a real chance.

this....It seems like the only way we can find out if the back up or etc can play is if an injury or super sucky performance (bledslow) happen. Sometimes I think coaches like to go with the reliable vet for as long as possible than to play the better player. Look at sean lee last year. He should of been a starter (especially after what he showed vs the colts) but he was still playing back up behind james and brookings:bang2: .

In saying that I hope we get a legit passrusher in FA or draft one in the first 2 or 3 rounds (someone that is a passrushing beast, bruce irvin???)

 

[Future]

I've been wanting to see Butler in an expanded role for 2 seasons now so I would welcome it. He's made the most of his opportunities up until this point, if the team feels confident about him why not?

He only had 3 sacks last year. I don't know how many times he actually rushed the passer, but enough to say that he wasn't a factor. It's not like every time he touched the field he was a threat and was being held back by an incumbent, solid starter. He never did anything to take the position away from Spencer, as a pass rusher or otherwise.

 

[Dodger]

You say Spencer hasn't panned out, but I think it's becasue we want a Lamarr Woodley or Clay Matthews in that spot. It's kinda like Reed and Palomalu. We all want to find a safety who's like them, but they just don't exist. If you look at the majority of SOLB's in a 3-4, Spencer is near the top in overall production. Sure, you'd like a guy in that spot who gets to the QB more consistently. The numbers show those guys are few and far between.

And with our DE's being as ineffective as they've been, I wonder how good Woodley would be on this team.

We want Ware 2.0 on the strong side. Who wouldn't...

I did go look at some stats, and I think you're right...the guy we're looking for is very hard to find. I looked at the production of every OLB on every team that runs a 3-4. I was amazed.

Spencer was actually pretty good last year when you look at what the second OLB on those teams contribute. Most guys have 2 or 3 sacks. A couple have 6 or 7 like Spencer. And then there's Woodley.

Point being when I compared his production to similar players, he's right up there.

I don't mind admitting that I think my opinion of Spencer has changed.


*edit

btw...this is a really good thread.

 

[FLcowboy]

Some know he is Ware's best friend on the team. He also recently (Pro Bowl last week) did an autograph session for the Arizona Cowboys fan club I am a member of. I didn't make it to that autograph session. However a friend of mine did and he said Butler thinks he will start at SOLB in 2012, but that when he talks about it, he does so quietly as if not to jinx it.

Wondering how you would feel if he does?

He wasn't good enough to supplant Spencer this year. I guess he thinks Spencer is gone, and no other SOLB is brought in.

 

[Aven8]

I love Butler as a pass rusher. He is actually the only defender we have that when he hits the QB it's with an attitude.

I said 12 sacks for him at the beginning of this season and it never happened. I've never understood why Wade, or Ryan never played him more. It has to be something. I never understood also why we never get him, Ware, Rat, Spence on the line together as well like the Giants.

I'm torn between Upsahw and Decastro right now with the first pick. Regardless if Spence is gone we need depth and more pass rushers.

Upshaw reminds me of Pitts LB's. Mean, and tough. We need that. Good cop- Ware- Bad cop-insert name?

 

[Hostile]

It might mean nothing to anyone else, but Butler also showed some leadership capabilities in regards to this autograph session I mentioned in the OP. He and Cubby (Everson Walls for the pups among us) were the only Cowboys slated to sign for us.

Victor invited and brought Tyron Smith with him. That is a player on the opposite side of the football, young, and has a higher stature on the team.

 

[theogt]

He's not very good so we need to start searching for options if that's the case.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Butler confuses me. I've seen him get trapped inside on a couple of running plays, but, for the most part, he's a playmaker on passing downs, and I have to admit I haven't noticed him being a particular liability out there.

My reservations about him come entirely because the team hasn't pumped him up much, and they haven't been acting like they're grooming him to start. I wish I understood better why. It'd be an interesting topic to hear a scout chime in on, if only we had one who posted here regularly.

SOLB is such an important position, though. We've got to have competition there. If we're kicking Rat out to DE, and if we're serious about bringing in more pressure players, then it's either going to happen at SOLB, at NT if there's an option available to us that can beat occasional double teams, or we have to add a DE we can rotate into a multiple set when we want to get after the passer. I think Victor Butler fits into that equation, but I'd be a lot happier if we had another LB outside we could put into the mix in the event he proves to be a major liability or gets hurt.

I'm no scout but the deal with people playing the left side opposite Ware is you're going to get a lot of action your way. Mostly one on one matchups, very little chips, but a lot of scheming and attention devoted to exploiting that side of the field.. Deal is, run action, misdirection, powers, sweeps, slams, off tackles, and a lot of stretch plays are specifically designed to target that corner because Ware is so dominant against the run, and very rarely get much action his way outside of screens, double teams on traditional run plays, chips, and plays that take advantage of his aggressiveness on passing downs.

With all that said, with the importance of your weak side backer to hold the point of attack and must have a very stout physical skill set. Spencer may not be very creative in pass rush, or really have that motor that Ware and Ratliff has, but he's incredible strong and very rarely is a total liabity against the run. You'd ideally like for him to take advantage of those one on one matchups on obvious passing downs but I just don't think he's quick enough to compensate for his brute strength.

As for Butler he doesn't have that upper body strength Spencer has to hold a blocker and quickly shed him to stuff a run. Butler has a tendancy to get trapped inside, and relies on his quickness. Would be a total liability in the run game and wouldn't be effective rushing the Qb 25 times a game, speed rushers without a bullrush are easy to scheme out of a game. I like him in coverage, but with the attention that side of the field is going to get you want a guy with a more stout physical skill set. Coming off the bench late in games when tackles are tired, particularly late in drives is where he thrives, and has accumulated a lot of his bigger plays when he's gotten on the field. He's not an every down guy, scouts know that, that's why Jerry's never tried to really drive his stock up or down, he's a good special teamer and backup lolb in Ryan's scheme, doubt he starts here or anywhere. But I still really like him coming off the bench, or filling in for a game or two in a pinch.

 

[rash]

I'm not going to lie to yall; I always thought highly of him and thought he had what it took to be a 3 down player, but I subconsciously didn't even consider him potentially starting next year because so many have discounted him as well.

Yes, he needs to improve on run support...but at least he's got the tools as a pass rusher.