Video: Did Newman/Jenkins make Woodson's top CB list?

dcfanatic

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Rod Woodson from NFL Network gave us his Top Five CB list...

[youtube]6VmSEUDl2P8[/youtube]

I agree with the list . I really hate that Asante Samuel is given such a pass on his poor tackling. But the guy does put up INT's like crazy year in and year out. Next year I could see Mike Jenkins on this list.
 

Chuck 54

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dcfanatic;3459418 said:
Rod Woodson from NFL Network gave us his Top Five CB list...

[youtube]6VmSEUDl2P8[/youtube]

I agree with the list, but I really hate that Asante Samuel is given such a pass because he is a poor tackler. But the guy does put up INT's like crazy year in and year out. Next year I could see Mike Jenkins on this list.

They used to say the same thing about the best cover cb of all time, Deon Sanders...but in this case, Samuel actually misses tackles. Deon rarely, if ever, actually let guys get away. He grabbed them and dragged them down instead of laying the lumber, so he was soft, but Deon had more pride than to simply OLE and let the guy keep running...he usually got them down with arm tackles or held them up until help arrived.
 

J-DOG

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I really do not have a problem with Woodson's top five.
Samuel get's the nod over a Jenkins because of his interception numbers...I disagree with having Samuel over Jenkins but I can understand someone taking him over Jenkins.
Jenkins has only 1 good year under his belt.
Plus I would have a hard time putting Jenkins over Champ Bailey (who wasn't even on the list) also.
Jenkins has another good year...his kudo's will come.
 

CCBoy

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Hey Fanatic, I have to give you a hooah for continually bringing in fresh information for us all....thanks for that.

I'm old school in that I don't usually start out to air 'dirty laundry' on other posters to stir the pot, but I do appreciate the effort of bringing in fresh views of current relationships in the NFL.

I think that our 'own' Terrence Newman is a very good corner but just not a top five. As to Jenkins, he is a top edge upcoming corner. Here, he also has proven the top edge mark as of yet. He has to put together an 'improved' season to get concensus of approval for such a standing although.

Today, I think that only DeMarcus Ware would get top five marks throughout the league, but Witten and Ratliff would be around the mark as well....
 

28 Joker

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I don't agree with Asante Samuel being in there this year at all. Smoke screen, anyone?

According to Pro Football Focus, Samuel's YPA was 8.8 YPA. Yikes. They have his completion rate at 67.2%. That is worse than Orlando Scandrick's completion %. That is really bad, both numbers. I don't know what K.C. Joyner has on him, but he's the best, imo.

Also, Samuel gave up a big 341 YAC yards. That stat shows what you see on the field. He is a poor tackler in the open field.

Also, DRC has some good numbers, but he was targeted 120 times.

Champ Bailey has a strong case, as noted in the video. However...

Both Cowboys CBs and both Bengals CBs have a strong case, too, imo.

Woodson rated Newman number 5 last year, and Pro Football Weekly's survey of scouts, GMs, pro personnel people, coaches... (before the 2009 season).. rated Newman in the top 5 last year, too.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Gaw, Samuel is so, so, SO overrated. Yeah, he's like a magnet to the ball. Know why? Because he breaks scheme and gambles ALL the time.

But hey, it gets him on stupid lists like this, so I guess it's worth it. Rod says it's okay to give up huge plays as long as you're "aggressive". :cool:

I've about had all of this offseason I can take.
 

Stash

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Once again, it's about the flash with these guys.

Much like Witten was ranked lower than he should have been (in my opinion) due to a lower amount of touchdowns.

INT's is the name of the game and Newman doesn't get as many as the others do.

As for Jenkins, I think he just has to do it for more than one year and he'll get his due.
 

BehindEnemyLinez

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CCBoy;3459431 said:
I think that our 'own' Terrence Newman is a very good corner but just not a top five. As to Jenkins, he is a top edge upcoming corner. Here, he also has proven the top edge mark as of yet. He has to put together an 'improved' season to get concensus of approval for such a standing although.

Today, I think that only DeMarcus Ware would get top five marks throughout the league, but Witten and Ratliff would be around the mark as well....
QFT...
As for Rod's list, I'm not feeling the Samuel choice, either. I'd put Champ (and Newman & maybe Jenkins for that matter) in front of him.
 

Rampage

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Asante Samuel haters are all up in this thread. I'd trade Newman for Asante in a heartbeat. PLAYMAKER

[youtube]v0z_jt1OaD0[/youtube]
 

28 Joker

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Rampage;3459518 said:
Asante Samuel haters are all up in this thread. I'd trade Newman for Asante in a heartbeat. PLAYMAKER

[youtube]v0z_jt1OaD0[/youtube]


Sorry. Dallas would never do that trade.

I'm sure the Cowboys value Newman's reliable, consistent play. I'm sure they want no part of that gambling, non-tackling player. Chocolate Lab was on to something when he talked about Samuel's gambling. Samuel gambles, but he wins and losses. When he losses, it is ugly. Can you ingnore the chunks of yards he has been prone to give up over his career? Is it really all about picks? Not in my book, it isn't.

Just wait until Dez Bryant lines up across him. That will get ugly. Dez Bryant will torch him. Can't wait.
 

Jay

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Asante is a slightly better DeAngelo Hall (when he used to get all that praise and recognition).

Those two gamble so much that their INT numbers BETTER be high. I saw Asante get burnt over and over last season. He's definitely overrated.
 

28 Joker

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I can make a strong case for Terence Newman based on his 7 year body of work. Newman is definatley in the conversation.

However, Mike Jenkins and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie were drafted in the same class and will compete for Pro Bowl births. Let's see what Pro Football Focus has to say about them. Which player should have been elected to the Pro Bowl first? I prefer K.C. Joyner's numbers, but I'll go with these for now. I've seen AdamJT13 quote this site, so that tells me something. It may not be Joyner, but it's all I have right now.

If DRC is in Woodson's top 5 this year, with just 2 years in the NFL, then Mike Jenkins (a Pro Bowler) deserves consideration for Woodson's list. Woodson may have considered Jenkins, and I heard him say that he considers the body of work and a CB's skill set when I saw his 2009 list. Woodson had Newman on there before 2009 started, so I'm not going to be overly critical of his list this year. Although, Samuel's selection this year is dubious, imso. I can take Newman and Jenkins (especially if DRC is on that list) and go right at Samuel. Back to the Pro Bowl...

DRC made the Pro Bowl over Jenkins last year. Jenkins was an "alternate". Let's see how the two NFC players stacked up according to Pro Football Focus. I wanted to compare them, because they are both in the NFC, and they both have played 2 years. This was Jenkins first year starting full time while DRC took over during his rookie year, and he didn't have blockades in his way like Jenkins did.


Here are the numbers, according to Pro Football Focus, on Mike Jenkins and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie of the Cardinals:


Mike Jenkins:

Snaps: 942
Yards: 585
TA: 99
YPA: 5.9
CP%: 50.5%
TD: 2
INT: 5 (2 taken away by penalty not on him)
PD: 15
YAC: 219
REC: 50
Long: 36


DRC:

Snaps: 987
Yards: 781
TA: 120
YPA: 6.5
CP%: 50.8%
TD: 6
INT: 6
PD: 16
YAC: 310
REC: 61
Long: 62


DRC's numbers are good, and you can make a case for him. He did give up 6 TDs and was targeted 120 times, though. His YAC yards are above 300, too. He is some what of a gambler, too. That is a ton of times to be targeted. Who is the Cardinals other CB? I don't even know.

Look at Mike Jenkins' numbers according to PFF. Look at that 5.9 YPA. While YPA shouldn't be used as the sole judge of a CB (imo), it is a good stat that should be used in context. Compare Jenkins' YPA to Samuel's 8.8 YPA according to PFF. Might as well go at one of the "almighty ones".... Jenkins beats Samuel and DRC in YPA according to PFF.

Jenkins had one less pick, but he also had 2 picks taken away from him on penalties by other players. He could have tallied 7 INTs. DRC had one more pass defensed. Those two stats do not separate them. Both had a very good completion %.


What separates them?

Jenkins has the better YPA 5.9 to 6.5.

Jenkins was targeted 21 fewer times than DRC. 99 to 120

Jenkins gave up fewer yards: 585 to 781

Jenkins gave up 11 fewer receptions: 50 to 61

Jenkins gave up 219 YAC yards while DRC gave up 310 YAC yards. DRC gave up 91 more YAC yards.

Jenkins gave up 2 TD while DRC gave up 6.

Jenkins' longest reception against was 36 yards.

DRC longest reception against was 62 yards.

The INTs are 6 to 5 in favor of DRC, but Jenkins had two taken away (as stated above). 6-5 is a wash, anyway.

PFF rates Jenkins as the better run defender.

These stats say that Jenkins was the better player. I would like to see Joyner's numbers. Maybe, DRC should not have gotten that Pro Bowl bid over Jenkins.

Heck, Asante Samuel shouldn't have gone over Jenkins, not even close, imo. Samuel had 9 INTs, but look at the amount of times he got beat. Jenkins had 5 picks and two taken away, and his YPA was top notch. I don't know why they don't take 4 CBs instead of three. It doesn't make any sense.

Here are the first three 2009 NFC Pro Bowl choices:

Woodson
Samuel
DRC

You could make a strong case (based on these numbers) that Mike Jenkins should have started the Pro Bowl and not as an "alternate". You know, if you make a Pro Bowl, you should be known as a Pro Bowler, not an "alternate" Pro Bowler. Woodson and DRC had to pull out.

Newman was named, and then Jenkins was named after Newman.

The bottom line is this. This position has been judged by just picks and INTs for TDs for a while. That is how DeAngelo Hall was named to 2 Pro Bowls while the better player, the more consistent, reliable player stayed home (Terence Newman). While picks are important, they should not be the only criteria for judging a CB. There should be a complete picture and a body of work to be judged on.

I'll take Mike Jenkins' consistent, reliable play in 2009 over DRC's tendency to gamble for picks all day long and twice on Sunday. It will be fun to compare these guys for the years to come.


http://profootballfocus.com/by_posi...e=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=75&numgames=1
 

adbutcher

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Chocolate Lab;3459453 said:
Gaw, Samuel is so, so, SO overrated. Yeah, he's like a magnet to the ball. Know why? Because he breaks scheme and gambles ALL the time.

But hey, it gets him on stupid lists like this, so I guess it's worth it. Rod says it's okay to give up huge plays as long as you're "aggressive". :cool:

I've about had all of this offseason I can take.

Amen!
 

aikemirv

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Sorry but Newman was one of my most frustrating players on the team last year. I don't think he is near top 5 - he was at one time but not anymore. His concentration and effort was lacking last year IMO. He can shut people down - he has the ability but he does not bring it every week IMO
 

casmith07

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wayne motley said:
They used to say the same thing about the best cover cb of all time, Deon Sanders...but in this case, Samuel actually misses tackles. Deon rarely, if ever, actually let guys get away. He grabbed them and dragged them down instead of laying the lumber, so he was soft, but Deon had more pride than to simply OLE and let the guy keep running...he usually got them down with arm tackles or held them up until help arrived.

Punters didn't let him get away either :laugh1:

[youtube]
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[/youtube]
 

28 Joker

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There was a poll done by NFL scouts and NFL personnel people. I will get the link. It was a Saints article, I think. 12 NFL people voted.

It rated the top CB tandems in the NFL. There seemed to be an AFC tilt to the poll, but Dallas' duo of Terence Newman and Mike Jenkins tied for third with the Saints. The Saints???? I don't think so. Dallas' duo received 2 first place votes.


The Bengals finished 1st.

The Jets were 2nd.

The Cowboys and Saints tied for 3rd. (Hmm.. #41 and #21 must be playing some great football out there.)

The Panthers came in 5th.

The Cowboys have two Aces.

Newman and Jenkins > all NFC CBs.

This is a team game. I'll take either one of them and go up against anyone.

Bring it....

Teams win games.

Teams win championships.

Top 5 lists of individual players don't win games or championships.

http://www.dailycomet.com/article/20100620/OPINION01/100619091?p=1&tc=pg
 
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