Was the conservative defense a necessity?

[AtlCB]

I know bashing Big Bill is in vogue now, but don't you think that his vanilla schemes had more to do with problems in the secondary than him being stubborn. Henry's injury and the fact that no one stepped up at FS forced Parcells to put Roy back in coverage. If the Cowboys had a decent FS and a healthy cornerback opposite Newman, Parcells would be able to put Roy in the box where he is most effect. With eight in the box, Parcells would have had the option to become more aggressive and creative with the pass rush.

 

[eduncan22]

I know bashing Big Bill is in vogue now, but don't you think that his vanilla schemes had more to do with problems in the secondary than him being stubborn. Henry's injury and the fact that no one stepped up at FS forced Parcells to put Roy back in coverage. If the Cowboys had a decent FS and a healthy cornerback opposite Newman, Parcells would be able to put Roy in the box where he is most effect. With eight in the box, Parcells would have had the option to become more aggressive and creative with the pass rush.

Henry wasn't on any NFL injury reports last season.

Did he have knee surgery after the 2006 season?

If you've ever had a knee injury, you know the answer to that one.

 

[superpunk]

Henry wasn't on any NFL injury reports last season.

Did he have knee surgery after the 2006 season?

If you've ever had a knee injury, you know the answer to that one.

Would you mind explaining something to me?

How does having a knee injury give you the ability to know whether or not Henry had knee surgery after the 2006 season?

I needs to know bout deez speshul powerz.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Henry wasn't on any NFL injury reports last season.

Did he have knee surgery after the 2006 season?

If you've ever had a knee injury, you know the answer to that one.

Stupid is as stupid does...

 

[Hoov]

Would you mind explaining something to me?

How does having a knee injury give you the ability to know whether or not Henry had knee surgery after the 2006 season?

I needs to know bout deez speshul powerz.

:laugh2:

 

[superpunk]

In response to the OP, I think that's just how Zimmer and Parcells wanted to play it. While Bellichick runs the same style of defense that we do, he is more exotic. I believe it's been documented that when they were together, Bellichick always had to push Parcells to get his ideas on the field. Fortunately, he was strong-willed and tough enough to pull it off. Zimmer....not so much - and so we basically saw Zimmer's version of the 3-4 out there.

Which is not a terrible thing. It CAN work. The reason Parcells likes the 3-4 so much is because you can drop 8 at any time, and stay in your base with your LBs covering those intermediate routes. And definitely Belichick likes that, too. The difference is, the Pats LBs do their job, and their front three are actually capable of getting a push. If we could have managed that, we'd have been alright.

Pat Watkins and Bradie James not knowing a football from their *** in the ground didn't help - that's for sure.

 

[eduncan22]

Would you mind explaining something to me?

How does having a knee injury give you the ability to know whether or not Henry had knee surgery after the 2006 season?

I needs to know bout deez speshul powerz.

A=B, B=C, thus A=C

Did Henry have knee surgery following the 2006 season?

 

[junk]

I know bashing Big Bill is in vogue now, but don't you think that his vanilla schemes had more to do with problems in the secondary than him being stubborn. Henry's injury and the fact that no one stepped up at FS forced Parcells to put Roy back in coverage. If the Cowboys had a decent FS and a healthy cornerback opposite Newman, Parcells would be able to put Roy in the box where he is most effect. With eight in the box, Parcells would have had the option to become more aggressive and creative with the pass rush.

If you're a defensive coordinator, wouldn't you prefer to be able to stop the run and pressure the passer with only 7 in the box?

In that situation, shouldn't your strong safety be in coverage anyway?

If Roy is so limited that he can't be effective unless he is in the box, doesn't that say he is somewhat limited as a player?

 

[dmq]

Parcells got burned a number of times when he tried to be more exotic. His defensive style might have won a Superbowl if Ellis didn't go down. You play more agressive and you will get burned. Its not the end all to be all.

 

[superpunk]

A=B, B=C, thus A=C

It still doesn't make any sense. Have you tried solving for A where B approaches lunacy?

Did Henry have knee surgery following the 2006 season?

I've never had a knee injury. So I have no idea.

 

[Doomsday101]

It still doesn't make any sense. Have you tried solving for A where B approaches lunacy?



I've never had a knee injury. So I have no idea.

Didn't you know that all knee injuries require surgery? :laugh2:
eduncan22 does not like Henry and is reaching

 

[AbeBeta]

Did Henry have knee surgery following the 2006 season?

Most knee injuries involve inflamation of various stuff that benefit more from rest than surgery.

 

[AtlCB]

If you're a defensive coordinator, wouldn't you prefer to be able to stop the run and pressure the passer with only 7 in the box?

In that situation, shouldn't your strong safety be in coverage anyway?

If Roy is so limited that he can't be effective unless he is in the box, doesn't that say he is somewhat limited as a player?

That was not the point. The point was that Roy was forced to be in coverage due to injuries to Henry and bad play by the FS. If Roy was free to be near the line of scrimmage, you have a lot more options to mix up your coverages and blitz packages.

 

[ethiostar]

A=B, B=C, thus A=C

Did Henry have knee surgery following the 2006 season?

:enough:

 

[Stash]

Didn't you know that all knee injuries require surgery? :laugh2:
eduncan22 does not like Henry and is reaching

What else is new.

This fool has crossed over from just plain wrong to just plain annoying.

:shatfan:

 

[THUMPER]

I know bashing Big Bill is in vogue now, but don't you think that his vanilla schemes had more to do with problems in the secondary than him being stubborn. Henry's injury and the fact that no one stepped up at FS forced Parcells to put Roy back in coverage. If the Cowboys had a decent FS and a healthy cornerback opposite Newman, Parcells would be able to put Roy in the box where he is most effect. With eight in the box, Parcells would have had the option to become more aggressive and creative with the pass rush.

The best way to help your secondary is to put as much pressure on the QB as possible. Giving the QB all day to throw is what exposes any weaknesses in your secondary.

Parcells is cautious by nature and it has been exacerbated by his age.

 

[AtlCB]

The best way to help your secondary is to put as much pressure on the QB as possible. Giving the QB all day to throw is what exposes any weaknesses in your secondary.

Parcells is cautious by nature and it has been exacerbated by his age.

Good point. The problem with the pass rush was magnified after Ellis suffered his injury.

 

[joseephuss]

In response to the OP, I think that's just how Zimmer and Parcells wanted to play it. While Bellichick runs the same style of defense that we do, he is more exotic. I believe it's been documented that when they were together, Bellichick always had to push Parcells to get his ideas on the field. Fortunately, he was strong-willed and tough enough to pull it off. Zimmer....not so much - and so we basically saw Zimmer's version of the 3-4 out there.

Which is not a terrible thing. It CAN work. The reason Parcells likes the 3-4 so much is because you can drop 8 at any time, and stay in your base with your LBs covering those intermediate routes. And definitely Belichick likes that, too. The difference is, the Pats LBs do their job, and their front three are actually capable of getting a push. If we could have managed that, we'd have been alright.

Pat Watkins and Bradie James not knowing a football from their *** in the ground didn't help - that's for sure.

If Zimmer was not strong willed enough, then wouldn't it be Parcells' version on the field?

Parcells runs a conservative defense. He expects the defenders to win their individual match ups. The last four regular season games, the guys on defense did not do that. They played much better in the wild card game. When your players are not executing like you want them to, then you can try different schemes or tweaks to try and gain an advantage. That is something Parcells does not really like to do and Zimmer is still a novice at the 3-4, so he probably had limited input on the matter.

Was it Parcells scheme that was bad? Or the failure to get players to run the scheme at a high level? Or a little of both? There were times in the season where the defense looked great. The last 4 games they looked awful. I don't think they were getting out schemed, they just were not executing. Against the Saints and Falcons there were throws that were 50-50 and no one on defense especially in the secondary was making plays on those throws.

 

[zeromaster]

The past is something to learn from, not hold on to.

But we love to rehash it around here.

 

[superpunk]

If Zimmer was not strong willed enough, then wouldn't it be Parcells' version on the field?

Parcells runs a conservative defense. He expects the defenders to win their individual match ups. The last four regular season games, the guys on defense did not do that. They played much better in the wild card game. When your players are not executing like you want them to, then you can try different schemes or tweaks to try and gain an advantage. That is something Parcells does not really like to do and Zimmer is still a novice at the 3-4, so he probably had limited input on the matter.

Was it Parcells scheme that was bad? Or the failure to get players to run the scheme at a high level? Or a little of both? There were times in the season where the defense looked great. The last 4 games they looked awful. I don't think they were getting out schemed, they just were not executing. Against the Saints and Falcons there were throws that were 50-50 and no one on defense especially in the secondary was making plays on those throws.

All coaches are stubborn. Zimmer either didn't have the stones, or just didn't have any ideas worth a darn. Either way, we were basically playing the same read and react two-gap 4-3 out of a 3-4 set. Make no mistake, we were running Zimmer's scheme - just like we saw Payton's schemes and Sparano's schemes. These guys got their ideas on the field and executed with the players, most of the year. Zimmer did, too. But when our annual december collapse came, it was the defense that faltered (again), and Zimmer (again) had no answers.


So it was a little of everything. The players failed. Then the coaches failed the players by not getting them to stop failing. Then, in the playoff game, everyone played well. But some other units "dropped the ball", so to speak.