Wash. Times| Good article on Skins cap

[The30YardSlant]

no 12 sounds like the best possible scenario....however majority of the players so go along with it.....

to say 4-5 m under is fine......we had what like 3.2 wiggle room last year....we came out ok.....

But what you fail to grasp is you will have to gut your team to get to that number. Commanders fans abound are conceding that Arrington will be gone. Chris Samuels, Shawn Springs, Patrick Ramsey, Jon Jansen, etc. are all possible cap casualties.

You remember what happened to the Titans last year? That is the Commanders future

 

[AdamJT13]

huh....isn't that your post.....if so this is what were talking about....I don't get it?

So your post was a response to my post, not the original article at the start of the thread?

If so, you might want to do a little research.

 

[jterrell]

I'm sure the Skins will be ok in general. Here in Denver with the Broncos it's pretty much that same song and dance every year too. Millions over the cap, but they work it out.

Like when they cut Griese after just having signed him to huge contract the year before. OMG how can they do that when they had cap issues to begin with. They had to eat it. But yet they still managed to sign Plummer instead who doesnt work for chump change.

And speaking of chump, or I mean Champ.. Bailey, same thing there. Portis wasnt makin much and started whinin about it..so they trade him for Bailey who makes big bucks. Howd they work that out when Portis was slated to make 400K or whatever.

I think true cap hell comes from paying guys (more than one or 2) still in their prime..or close enough to it, to big signing bonus contracts where that money counts come hell or high water. Like Aikman, Smith, Deion when we got him, Arrington in the case of the Skins etc.

Not from signing aging vets like Brunell, Bruce Smith, Deion when he went there and guys like that. Where they dont get huge bonuses and those 3rd and 4th years of a deal that "say" 4 million a year just get torn up. It just "looked" good at the time that it was a 4 year 16 million dollar deal or whatever.

In other words it's all about creativity and not paying too many guys too much real money past their usefullness.

How Denver did ti is easy.

They actually draft well.

The Skins dont have that luxury.

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

I have nothing to apologize for, because you are plain and simply wrong. You are feeding off the garbage Art, Bubba, and all the other self-proclaimed football gurus over on ES. These are men in their mid 40s and older who have such a vast inferiority complex that they feel the need to brag about their "knowledge', even though they spew random crap, hoping something sticks.

Adam, on the other had, answers when asked. He doesnt feel the need to throw around what he knows just to make himself seem smart.

Also add to the fact that Adam has yet to be wrong even once that I can recall on issues regarding the cap, and I have no reason to not believe him. I have every reason to not believe the stats and anaylisis posted on ES because they are constantly wrong, then they ban people who call them out on it.

Art or Bubba didn't post on that thread if I recall and the guy who did the calculations I never heard of before because I stopped going there for a while.....

ADAM made sense....his post didn't contradict mine.....it just added the fact that not ALL the players will probably redo their contracts

I personally don't care if someone does something to "feel smarter" I'm just showing you this side of the story......

You don't have to believe what I'm typing however I would at least expect you to understand it.....you can read right?....you and Tio are the only 2 ppl here who regulaly bash my posts here.....

you'll see just like the last 2-3 seasons.....we'll get under and you'll ****.....until next offseason......

 

[The30YardSlant]

Art or Bubba didn't post on that thread if I recall and the guy who did the calculations I never heard of before because I stopped going there for a while.....

ADAM made sense....his post didn't contradict mine.....it just added the fact that not ALL the players will probably redo their contracts

I personally don't care if someone does something to "feel smarter" I'm just showing you this side of the story......

You don't have to believe what I'm typing however I would at least expect you to understand it.....you can read right?....you and Tio are the only 2 ppl here who regulaly bash my posts here.....

you'll see just like the last 2-3 seasons.....we'll get under and you'll ****.....until next offseason......

I trust you'll show up around June 1 when Danny Boy is in the fetal position sucking his thumb, realizing that his idiotic management has finally caught up to him?

Waahington will not come out of this better than they ended this season.

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

I trust you'll show up around June 1 when Danny Boy is in the fetal position sucking his thumb, realizing that his idiotic management has finally caught up to him?

Waahington will not come out of this better than they ended this season.

I'll be here......heck I'm always here.....:laugh2:

If the cap isn't extended before March, this year won't be anything like every other year. The 30 percent rule will be a big factor in a lot of contracts, prorations will be shorter and there won't be a June 2 escape hatch for inflated contracts. If the NFL goes into the league year with it being the final capped year, the rules of the CBA will make sure that every team is accountable toward the cap as much as possible before it goes away next year. Far less of a player's cap charges will be able to be pushed into future years as teams have done in other years.

If the cap is extended before March, however -- which I think it will be -- then the Skins can go back to putting off the cap hits, as usual.

all other posts aside.....this is all that matters......I guess there's no point in me arguing any more if nobody knows which is gonna happen yet......

later......food's here.....lol

 

[Cowboy Junkie]

How Denver did ti is easy.

They actually draft well.

The Skins dont have that luxury.

Did not Denver get caught for cheating the cap a few years back????

 

[Cowboy Junkie]

Art or Bubba didn't post on that thread if I recall and the guy who did the calculations I never heard of before because I stopped going there for a while.....

ADAM made sense....his post didn't contradict mine.....it just added the fact that not ALL the players will probably redo their contracts

I personally don't care if someone does something to "feel smarter" I'm just showing you this side of the story......

You don't have to believe what I'm typing however I would at least expect you to understand it.....you can read right?....you and Tio are the only 2 ppl here who regulaly bash my posts here.....

you'll see just like the last 2-3 seasons.....we'll get under and you'll ****.....until next offseason......

I do not think Adam was saying " NOt all Players will redo their contracts" , but that they may not be allowed to redo them to the extent that they need to , due to the CBA's status...

 

[jterrell]

Art or Bubba didn't post on that thread if I recall and the guy who did the calculations I never heard of before because I stopped going there for a while.....

ADAM made sense....his post didn't contradict mine.....it just added the fact that not ALL the players will probably redo their contracts

I personally don't care if someone does something to "feel smarter" I'm just showing you this side of the story......

You don't have to believe what I'm typing however I would at least expect you to understand it.....you can read right?....you and Tio are the only 2 ppl here who regulaly bash my posts here.....

you'll see just like the last 2-3 seasons.....we'll get under and you'll ****.....until next offseason......

The only problem with your essential argument here is that the Skins have been feeling cap heat for a couple of years. Thats why you dont have a 2nd WR or depth at many positions. Most teams are in some similar boat but the Skins situation is so bad because of the age of their players. A lot of these contracts run out in 2 or 3 years and if you dont get an uncapped year(which is extremely unlikely) then you will really be feeling it when you do have to cut like Lavar who was a part time player making cap hits over 10 mil per.

The Skins biggest error has been trading away too many draft picks. Paying draft pick compensation for the Jets they added and other middling NFL players as well as trading up has killed their draft numbers.

Skins fans act as if they have been skirting the Cap and making the SB every year. They haven't or anything close to it. They have gotten excellent returns on Santana Moss and Marcus Washinton but most signings have been expensive as can be with little return.

Dallas can get 30 mil under the cap easily with a full roster. Do you wanna guess who is gonna have a better off-season?

 

[jterrell]

Did not Denver get caught for cheating the cap a few years back????

Yea they gave up a 3rd rounder if I remember correctly.

But essentially what saved them was drafting.
Its hard to name more than a handful of bad Denver draft picks in a half dozen seasons.

 

[DipChit]

How Denver did ti is easy.

They actually draft well.

The Skins dont have that luxury.

How Denver did ..what.. is easy? Compete due to drafting? Maybe, but they hadnt won a Playoff game since Elway left until now no matter how they drafted, or how many trades or FA's they signed.

All I'm saying is they've been one of the most active teams in FA and trades over the years, are seemingly always "over" the cap, and it always doesnt matter. Somebody knows how to work the ledger.

When they want a new player they figure out how to make it work (monetarily anyway). I wouldnt be surprised to see T.O. in a Broncos uni next year. Whether they supposedly have cap issues yet again or not.

 

[Cowboy Junkie]

Yea they gave up a 3rd rounder if I remember correctly.

But essentially what saved them was drafting.
Its hard to name more than a handful of bad Denver draft picks in a half dozen seasons.

Yeah ,
I think they cheated it during their superbowl years...What a slap on the wrist that was...
I would take a superbowl for a 3rd rounder

 

[cfujskins]

Dallas can get 30 mil under the cap easily with a full roster. Do you wanna guess who is gonna have a better off-season?

Who cares? You guys said the EXACT same thing last offseason. "Oh, the Skins are tight, they can't add anybody". "We spent blah blah blah on Henry, Rivera, ect". By all means, please have the better offseason. And examples of us being in trouble with the cap are lack of a 2nd WR (forgetting that Patten was on IR) and lack of depth (forgetting that we had injuries and guys STILL stepped up)? C'mon, you have to do better than that (not exactly saying your opinion is wrong about the "cap heat" though).

 

[Holloway805]

Who cares? You guys said the EXACT same thing last offseason. "Oh, the Skins are tight, they can't add anybody". "We spent blah blah blah on Henry, Rivera, ect". By all means, please have the better offseason. And examples of us being in trouble with the cap are lack of a 2nd WR (forgetting that Patten was on IR) and lack of depth (forgetting that we had injuries and guys STILL stepped up)? C'mon, you have to do better than that (not exactly saying your opinion is wrong about the "cap heat" though).

Granted, you swept us this year. But looking at the big picture(cap room, having a first round pick, and a young defense that we can afford to keep together for a while) you as a Commander fan HAVE to be worried. After the 120 yd effort against TB and 10 PTS against Seattle, you have got to realize you are alot more than one player away, with no way to pay for them.

 

[Hiero]

Jason Campbell ran for 120 yards his senior season.
Quincy ran for 250 his last year here.
They are the same guy, Jason may not have a drug problem, but he isnt going to be good.

 

[Cbz40]

Like I have said a million times before.....I've been hearing this for years: They seem to always sign the player they want. So I will believe the "Cap Hell" stuff when I see it happening.

 

[silverbear]

I see stuff like this, then I see articles posted by skins fans on another forum that shows reasonable ways to get about 10 mil under for the Skins. I don't know which to believe. Every year I think Danny boy is gonna have to pay for his sins, and every year they find some way around it.

I've been having an argument with PCinOz (the author of the piece that claims they'll be able to get 12.7 million under the cap, then outlines the moves that do so) on this very subject... it has been a civil argument, but I have pointed out that his numbers are a little out of whack:

1) For openers, his projection only accounts for 48 salaries, and in the offseason the rule of 51 applies-- the cap is calculated using the top 51 salaries on the team... thus, he needs to factor in 3 more contracts, all of which will be at or near minimum wage... add another million to the cap, leaving them at 11.7 million...

2) He projects the release of Walt Harris and Matt Bowens, moves which he says would save the Skins 4 million... but if the Skins cut both of them, that would leave them with all of six experienced DBs (assuming Sean Taylor stays out of jail this offseason), so if they DO cut both of them, they'd have to spend at least that much just to replace them... there goes another 4 million of cap savings, leaving them at 7.7 million...

3) Most important of all, he doesn't factor in money to re-sign their OWN free agents, guys like Ryan Clark, or to pay their rookie draft picks... I don't know how many Skins are up for new deals, but I do know that Gibbs has said that keeping this team together will be his top priority this offseason, so SOME money will most assuredly go toward keeping them...

Bottom line, IF the Skins made all the moves suggested in his analysis, they'd be at most a couple-three million under the cap... and of course, he blithely assumes that all those Skins will be WILLING to renegotiate their deals, and in some cases that might prove problematic... in particular, I'm thinking of Chris Samuels, who wasn't real happy the last time he renegotiated...

Bottom line, there ain't a snowball's chance in Hades that the Skins will be 10-12 million under the cap... interestingly, PC didn't choose to dispute most of my argument... they MIGHT have the room to pursue 2 or 3 lesser free agents, or one semi-"name" free agent... don't look for them to be any more active than they were last offseason (when their big ticket FA acquisition was Cory Raymer)...

 

[silverbear]

so which is it?

http://Commanders.scout.com/2/490049.html

That's precisely the article I was talking about in my last post... it's not accurate...

 

[Mojorisen]

Commanders accountants


http://img336.*************/img336/4738/whatiscosby5pr8jm.gif

 

[notherbob]

I was surprised that Adam jt13 said he thought there would be a new CBA before March 1. I was of the impression that not only were union and management far apart, but within management, there was widespread disagreement among owners over revenue sharing. Maybe there has been some quiet progress.

I had been expecting no new CBA by March 1 and had been expecting the stuff to hit the fan. I have been expecting a strike and/or lockout like before. Baseball and hockey have had strikes in recent times and it's certainly not out of the question. I hope they do reach agreement and things can stay on an even keel for a while longer.

Washington apparently has been gambling on a cap-free year to get out of cap prison and now I'm not sure it would help them at all but could hurt them. Just keep on sending debt ahead into the future and sure enough, that boomerang will come back to haunt you, just like it did SF, the Boys, Tenn, Jax and others.

This off-season they will begin to feel the squeeze and will lose some people and not be able to afford to replace them with equal quality and their team will be lesser for it this coming season. They will have neither the cap space nor the draft picks to keep up with the Boys or any of the other teams in the NFC East. They are destined to become the new Phoenix of the division, just like Dallas was while it was in cap hell. Gibbs is a good coach, but that is hard to overcome. I doubt their team next fall will be as successful as the one they fielded this past season. I think they just peaked.

This has already started out to be a very interesting off-season.