We could have done SO much better!

[Doomsdayblitz]

Okay, I want to take a stab at this. Looking at your draft I'd say 1 is a starter in 2007. That would be Anthony Spencer. I'll say 2 more starters in 2008, McCauley (or Brown, but not likely both) and Free, replacing Henry and Adams. One more in 2009, Ramirez, replacing Kosier.

I too am surprised at how far Siler fell, but that is character issues and I'm glad we avoided that.

Overall not bad. I'm not crazy about the McCauley pick and would have preferred WR, but as we know the guy we wanted there was gone.



Now let's look at what we did do. I think we have 4 starters right now, though 2 are on Special Teams.

In addition to Spencer I think Anderson will be the starting FB, Folk will be our Kicker and Stanback will be our Kick Returner. I still see Free as Adams Replacement in 2008, and I think Marten will replace Columbo if he wants that big contract. I actually think Brown is going to start for us at some point.

I think your draft addresses depth, what the Cowboys did addresses immediate needs. I'd give you a B+ but I've already given what they did an A-, and neither grade is counting Cleveland's 1st rounder in 2008.

People can be critical of Jerry all they want, but I think he and his staff ran a masterful draft this year. The only pick I really question is Ball and that is solely upon my bias against 175 pound football players. For all I know he can really play.

What you said about starting ST players makes no sense. I could say the same thing about the players that I feel won't be starting at their regular positions in 2007. As far as Anderson starting at FB, Folk at PK, & Stanback at KR, we already have Hoyte, Gramatica, and Miles Austin starting at the aforementioned positions, so why did we need to draft players to replace them? Hoyte did a great job lead blocking, picking up the blitz, and catching passes out in the flat. Gramatica missed only one FG attempt in his stay at the end of the season. After a typically rough rookie start, Austin started holding onto the ball, and keeping the team in good FP. If I remember correctly, he even got into the end zone against Seattle in that playoff game.

You've made my point quite well. We used three precious draft picks on player positions that were already filled. We even got a quality FB/HB as an UDFA in Jackie Battle after the draft, so it looks like we would have been all set with or without Mr. Anderson.

Fill empty spots, JJ, don't pile on the positions we are already thick in with marginal or project type players!

 

[Hostile]

What you said about starting ST players makes no sense. I could say the same thing about the players that I feel won't be starting at their regular positions in 2007. As far as Anderson starting at FB, Folk at PK, & Stanback at KR, we already have Hoyte, Gramatica, and Miles Austin starting at the aforementioned positions, so why did we need to draft players to replace them? Hoyte did a great job lead blocking, picking up the blitz, and catching passes out in the flat. Gramatica missed only one FG attempt in his stay at the end of the season. After a typically rough rookie start, Austin started holding onto the ball, and keeping the team in good FP. If I remember correctly, he even got into the end zone against Seattle in that playoff game.

You've made my point quite well. We used three precious draft picks on player positions that were already filled. We even got a quality FB/HB as an UDFA in Jackie Battle after the draft, so it looks like we would have been all set with or without Mr. Anderson.

Fill empty spots, JJ, don't pile on the positions we are already thick in with marginal or project type players!

It's called getting better at critical needs.

Hoyte can block, but he's not a receiving threat or running threat at FB.

Folk can kickoff a lot deeper than Grammatica and pin offenses deep inside their own territory

Austin was our backup KR. He didn't do much until Thompson went down. They are rolling the dice that Stanback can be better than both.

It's just that simple.

I never knew 6th rounds picks were so "precious." If we get 2 people in the 6th round who contribute, and I think we did, it's called a score.

 

[Angus]

Cogan, I think you are right that your draft would garner an A+ from the draftnicks, so-called experts, and Madden GMs, but none of them have to live with their choices.

I see people talking about "our team" when they really mean Jerry Jones' team. He puts millions into making the Cowboys the best they can be, and the people with him that help make the draft choices put the wellbeing of themselves and their families on the line by their actions and advice. None of them are morons, either.

When you say "We could have done SO much better . . . ," are you talking about your team or Jones' team?

I'll give you the A+, but I'll bet on Ireland, who has something to lose if he is wrong.

 

[dallasfan]

1-26-Anthony Spencer, OLB/DE, Purdue, 6-3, 265, 4.7. I really liked Dan Bazuin due to his sack totals in his career, & at the East-West Shrine game, but Bazuin doesn't have nearly the flexibility required to make the move from DE to OLB. Also, Joe Thomas & Levi Brown, the two top rated OTs in the draft, both rated Spencer as the hardest player to block in their college careers. Now, DWare has that perfect counterpart to protect him from so many double teams.

Spencer was definately the best pick we could've made here

3-67-Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St., 6-1, 205, 4.38. Although McCauley didn't have as good a Sr. year as he did as a Jr., many feel it was due to a change in coaching philosophy to negative reinforcement. McCauley didn't respond to it, and went into a shell. A player's coach like Phillips would have been perfect to help McCauley regain his confidence, and become the CB he was before-one of the most complete prospects physically and a shutdown corner entering last season.

I'll admit I'm not a big McCauley fan b/c I see him as more of a cover2 CB.
I actually like the Marten pick, but if I had to choose someone else, it'd probably be Jason Hill, but I don't care for big name players who under achieve their final year.

4-103-Manual Ramirez, OG/OC, Texas Tech, 6-3, 325, 5.25. A big, powerful mauling blocker in the mold of a Larry Allen. Was moving up many team's boards as more learned how physically he played, even in a pass-happy offense. Packs a powerful punch as one of college football's strongest players, (benches 550 as an NFL rookie), and moves players off the line. Although not nearly as athletic as Allen, Ramirez projects as a solid anchor for years to come. Could have moved right in to replace Marco Rivera.

Problem is we already have a replacement for Rivera, so draftting his replacement wasn't a need. I'll admit Stanback wasn't on my radar, so If I could re-choose I'd take Paul Solari.

4-122-Doug Free, OT/OG/OC, Northern Illinois, 6-7, 320, 5.1. Big, durable, athletic and intelligent player who could be reliable at either OT spot. Makes great use of his quick feet & good understanding of the game to dominate in his division. Hard worker who moves well for his size. Once he gets stronger and learns to deliver a more devastating hand punch, will get an opportunity as the heir apparent to Flozell Adams. Great value pick at #122.

I'd definately keep this pick as is

6-178-Matt Toeaina, DL, Oregon, 6-2, 300, 5.0. Big, thickly built, naturally strong, with good mass distribution. Plays physical & controls blockers. Great worker with outstanding football character. Has the bull strength to push the pocket. Team captain and type of player teams seek in the locker room to push his teammates. Very competitive. Versatility allows him to line up inside or outside. Scrappy overachiever who is built to play a big man's game and can earn a roster spot as an interior plugger. Team needs an heir to Ferguson to start honing NOW.

I like the kicker pick. I bought into the Crosby hype and have wanted dallas to draft him since January. But apparently he's not as good as I thought.

6-195-Courtney Taylor, WR, Auburn, 6-2, 205, 4.5. Very good size and athletic ability-good body dexterity, quickness, and feet. Competes hard. Intelligent with natural hands. Is tough and will put his body in harm's way. Gets into & out of his routes quickly, getting his head around to find the ball. Makes sight adjustments and reads coverages on the run. Runs well in pads. Good yac production, (yards after catch). Good blocker. Above all, unlike Stanback, he really is a WR! Great value here, since most had him going around 85-100.

Assuming that I didn't draft Hill earlier Taylor would be a good pick.

7-212-Courtney Brown, CB, Cal-Poly, 6-1, 200, 4.32. Along with McCauley, the team has really increased the speed in the secondary, and given the defensive coaches more options. Appears to have regained speed & agility after a torn knee ligament in '04. A dynamic athlete with great size, Brown has tremendous upside. Again, great value here at #212.

Liked this pick

7-237-Brandon Siler, LB, Florida, 6-2, 240, 4.6. Unbelievable Siler is still here at #237, but what a steal. It doesn't matter that he is an ILB. You can never have enough players with his ability & speed, intelligence, and excelleration. Only makes the defense much better, and forces Bradie James to prove his worth. Siler is a playmaker who runs side to side in a heartbeat.

I think if you compare the players I picked to the ones Jones & Co. picked, you will have to concede I would have given us an A across the board. Add Jerah's extra pick next year, and it's a slam dunk A+.

OK, let me have it.

Siler wouldn't see the field or maybe roster behind Ayodele, James, Carpenter and Burnett. Overall It seems you just gravitated towards names, which doesn't always work out (check out our 02' draft)

 

[dogunwo]

Everyone always wants to take the small school workout warriors with late round picks, but I've often found that the best Day 2 steals in the draft are 4 year starters from major conferences who fall because they're not great workout guys. Maybe the best recent example is the Chargers getting Shane Olivea in the 7th round. Jay Ratliff is a great example for us. So while everyone is drooling over Courtney Brown based off workout numbers, I kind of have my eye on Alan Ball.

The next Mike Mckenzie without the hair?

 

[Verdict]

Everyone always wants to take the small school workout warriors with late round picks, but I've often found that the best Day 2 steals in the draft are 4 year starters from major conferences who fall because they're not great workout guys. Maybe the best recent example is the Chargers getting Shane Olivea in the 7th round. Jay Ratliff is a great example for us. So while everyone is drooling over Courtney Brown based off workout numbers, I kind of have my eye on Alan Ball.

I think you are really on to something there. You don't start for four years at a powerhouse football team in a major conference unless you have what it takes. A guy might crack the starting lineup for a year as a weak link, but, odds are they could find a replacement for a weak link in short order.

 

[LatinMind]

I'll admit I'm not a big McCauley fan b/c I see him as more of a cover2 CB.
I actually like the Marten pick, but if I had to choose someone else, it'd probably be Jason Hill, but I don't care for big name players who under achieve their final year.

perfect example of couch scout analyst talking about something he doesnt know. or probably heard that from another board.

fresno state doesnt play a cover 2 style defense. they play pressure man to man, with alot of bump and run. very little zone. McCauley was one of the most aggressive Cb's in this draft. plays real physical, and carolina found out with richard marshall last yr on the style of cb fresno state builds.

McCauley didnt really underacheive, fresno state had 2 freshman QB's and the defense sent the majority of the season on the field. sooner or later it was going to take its toll.

i guess your whole theory was shot to hell now wasnt it.

 

[dallasfan]

perfect example of couch scout analyst talking about something he doesnt know. or probably heard that from another board.

fresno state doesnt play a cover 2 style defense. they play pressure man to man, with alot of bump and run. very little zone. McCauley was one of the most aggressive Cb's in this draft. plays real physical, and carolina found out with richard marshall last yr on the style of cb fresno state builds.

McCauley didnt really underacheive, fresno state had 2 freshman QB's and the defense sent the majority of the season on the field. sooner or later it was going to take its toll.

i guess your whole theory was shot to hell now wasnt it.

I don't see why some people around here feel the need to be an ***. If you disagree with me do so, I could care less, but the whole internet tough guy act is more annoying then anything.

But back to the topic, he didn't have a good senior season, and had a poor senior bowl week. But we won't know for years if my entire argument is shot to hell

 

[Doomsday101]

I love the fact that JJ & Co. wheeled & dealed to get us an extra 1st rd. pick in the 2008 draft, one that almost without question is much deeper & more talented than the 2007 version.
I also like how the Cowboys were able to trade down to get half of Clevelands' picks, which were early in each round.

However, we could & should have used those picks so much more wisely according to our needs & the talent available. Having said that, here is what I would have done given the picks we had, and the talent still available when each pick came up:

1-26-Anthony Spencer, OLB/DE, Purdue, 6-3, 265, 4.7. I really liked Dan Bazuin due to his sack totals in his career, & at the East-West Shrine game, but Bazuin doesn't have nearly the flexibility required to make the move from DE to OLB. Also, Joe Thomas & Levi Brown, the two top rated OTs in the draft, both rated Spencer as the hardest player to block in their college careers. Now, DWare has that perfect counterpart to protect him from so many double teams.

3-67-Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St., 6-1, 205, 4.38. Although McCauley didn't have as good a Sr. year as he did as a Jr., many feel it was due to a change in coaching philosophy to negative reinforcement. McCauley didn't respond to it, and went into a shell. A player's coach like Phillips would have been perfect to help McCauley regain his confidence, and become the CB he was before-one of the most complete prospects physically and a shutdown corner entering last season.

4-103-Manual Ramirez, OG/OC, Texas Tech, 6-3, 325, 5.25. A big, powerful mauling blocker in the mold of a Larry Allen. Was moving up many team's boards as more learned how physically he played, even in a pass-happy offense. Packs a powerful punch as one of college football's strongest players, (benches 550 as an NFL rookie), and moves players off the line. Although not nearly as athletic as Allen, Ramirez projects as a solid anchor for years to come. Could have moved right in to replace Marco Rivera.

4-122-Doug Free, OT/OG/OC, Northern Illinois, 6-7, 320, 5.1. Big, durable, athletic and intelligent player who could be reliable at either OT spot. Makes great use of his quick feet & good understanding of the game to dominate in his division. Hard worker who moves well for his size. Once he gets stronger and learns to deliver a more devastating hand punch, will get an opportunity as the heir apparent to Flozell Adams. Great value pick at #122.

6-178-Matt Toeaina, DL, Oregon, 6-2, 300, 5.0. Big, thickly built, naturally strong, with good mass distribution. Plays physical & controls blockers. Great worker with outstanding football character. Has the bull strength to push the pocket. Team captain and type of player teams seek in the locker room to push his teammates. Very competitive. Versatility allows him to line up inside or outside. Scrappy overachiever who is built to play a big man's game and can earn a roster spot as an interior plugger. Team needs an heir to Ferguson to start honing NOW.

6-195-Courtney Taylor, WR, Auburn, 6-2, 205, 4.5. Very good size and athletic ability-good body dexterity, quickness, and feet. Competes hard. Intelligent with natural hands. Is tough and will put his body in harm's way. Gets into & out of his routes quickly, getting his head around to find the ball. Makes sight adjustments and reads coverages on the run. Runs well in pads. Good yac production, (yards after catch). Good blocker. Above all, unlike Stanback, he really is a WR! Great value here, since most had him going around 85-100.

7-212-Courtney Brown, CB, Cal-Poly, 6-1, 200, 4.32. Along with McCauley, the team has really increased the speed in the secondary, and given the defensive coaches more options. Appears to have regained speed & agility after a torn knee ligament in '04. A dynamic athlete with great size, Brown has tremendous upside. Again, great value here at #212.

7-237-Brandon Siler, LB, Florida, 6-2, 240, 4.6. Unbelievable Siler is still here at #237, but what a steal. It doesn't matter that he is an ILB. You can never have enough players with his ability & speed, intelligence, and excelleration. Only makes the defense much better, and forces Bradie James to prove his worth. Siler is a playmaker who runs side to side in a heartbeat.

I think if you compare the players I picked to the ones Jones & Co. picked, you will have to concede I would have given us an A across the board. Add Jerah's extra pick next year, and it's a slam dunk A+.

OK, let me have it.

Let you have it? Your giving your opinion on an imperfect science called the Draft. Your list could end up being a bust just like any NFL teams draft board.

 

[Alexander]

But we won't know for years if my entire argument is shot to hell

He was referring to your logic being shot to hell, probably not your entire argument. It's always opinion as to why people like certain players over others and it is just that, opinion. But sometimes the basis of the opinion can be questioned.

He is correct, McCauley is not and was not a cover-2 type cornerback. He is quite aggressive and it was when he lost his aggressive nature after a concussion where his struggles seemed to coincide playing in Pat Hill's predominantly man coverage schemes.

So how exactly did you arrive at the conclusion that you did about the cover-2 is the question.

 

[dallasfan]

He was referring to your logic being shot to hell, probably not your entire argument. It's always opinion as to why people like certain players over others and it is just that, opinion. But sometimes the basis of the opinion can be questioned.

He is correct, McCauley is not and was not a cover-2 type cornerback. He is quite aggressive and it was when he lost his aggressive nature after a concussion where his struggles seemed to coincide playing in Pat Hill's predominantly man coverage schemes.

So how exactly did you arrive at the conclusion that you did about the cover-2 is the question.

he never seemed fast to me despite his 40 time, and has good size and is physical, but it was this comment "perfect example of couch scout analyst talking about something he doesnt know. or probably heard that from another board" that I thought was unnessasary.

 

[kartr]

I love the fact that JJ & Co. wheeled & dealed to get us an extra 1st rd. pick in the 2008 draft, one that almost without question is much deeper & more talented than the 2007 version.
I also like how the Cowboys were able to trade down to get half of Clevelands' picks, which were early in each round.

However, we could & should have used those picks so much more wisely according to our needs & the talent available. Having said that, here is what I would have done given the picks we had, and the talent still available when each pick came up:

1-26-Anthony Spencer, OLB/DE, Purdue, 6-3, 265, 4.7. I really liked Dan Bazuin due to his sack totals in his career, & at the East-West Shrine game, but Bazuin doesn't have nearly the flexibility required to make the move from DE to OLB. Also, Joe Thomas & Levi Brown, the two top rated OTs in the draft, both rated Spencer as the hardest player to block in their college careers. Now, DWare has that perfect counterpart to protect him from so many double teams.

3-67-Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St., 6-1, 205, 4.38. Although McCauley didn't have as good a Sr. year as he did as a Jr., many feel it was due to a change in coaching philosophy to negative reinforcement. McCauley didn't respond to it, and went into a shell. A player's coach like Phillips would have been perfect to help McCauley regain his confidence, and become the CB he was before-one of the most complete prospects physically and a shutdown corner entering last season.

4-103-Manual Ramirez, OG/OC, Texas Tech, 6-3, 325, 5.25. A big, powerful mauling blocker in the mold of a Larry Allen. Was moving up many team's boards as more learned how physically he played, even in a pass-happy offense. Packs a powerful punch as one of college football's strongest players, (benches 550 as an NFL rookie), and moves players off the line. Although not nearly as athletic as Allen, Ramirez projects as a solid anchor for years to come. Could have moved right in to replace Marco Rivera.

4-122-Doug Free, OT/OG/OC, Northern Illinois, 6-7, 320, 5.1. Big, durable, athletic and intelligent player who could be reliable at either OT spot. Makes great use of his quick feet & good understanding of the game to dominate in his division. Hard worker who moves well for his size. Once he gets stronger and learns to deliver a more devastating hand punch, will get an opportunity as the heir apparent to Flozell Adams. Great value pick at #122.

6-178-Matt Toeaina, DL, Oregon, 6-2, 300, 5.0. Big, thickly built, naturally strong, with good mass distribution. Plays physical & controls blockers. Great worker with outstanding football character. Has the bull strength to push the pocket. Team captain and type of player teams seek in the locker room to push his teammates. Very competitive. Versatility allows him to line up inside or outside. Scrappy overachiever who is built to play a big man's game and can earn a roster spot as an interior plugger. Team needs an heir to Ferguson to start honing NOW.

6-195-Courtney Taylor, WR, Auburn, 6-2, 205, 4.5. Very good size and athletic ability-good body dexterity, quickness, and feet. Competes hard. Intelligent with natural hands. Is tough and will put his body in harm's way. Gets into & out of his routes quickly, getting his head around to find the ball. Makes sight adjustments and reads coverages on the run. Runs well in pads. Good yac production, (yards after catch). Good blocker. Above all, unlike Stanback, he really is a WR! Great value here, since most had him going around 85-100.

7-212-Courtney Brown, CB, Cal-Poly, 6-1, 200, 4.32. Along with McCauley, the team has really increased the speed in the secondary, and given the defensive coaches more options. Appears to have regained speed & agility after a torn knee ligament in '04. A dynamic athlete with great size, Brown has tremendous upside. Again, great value here at #212.

7-237-Brandon Siler, LB, Florida, 6-2, 240, 4.6. Unbelievable Siler is still here at #237, but what a steal. It doesn't matter that he is an ILB. You can never have enough players with his ability & speed, intelligence, and excelleration. Only makes the defense much better, and forces Bradie James to prove his worth. Siler is a playmaker who runs side to side in a heartbeat.

I think if you compare the players I picked to the ones Jones & Co. picked, you will have to concede I would have given us an A across the board. Add Jerah's extra pick next year, and it's a slam dunk A+.

OK, let me have it.

I agree with most of your take, we could have done so much better, but I don't like the players that much.

I would have taken Chris Houston and Quentin Moses in the second round to pair with Newman and Ware. I wouldn't have traded 3 draft picks to get Spencer. These two picks in the second complete the pass rush and corner problems.
In the 3rd round I would have taken Jason HIll and Tony Hunt. These picks gives a young 'Chad Johnson at receiver' and a quality rb for depth who could start in Julius gets hurt or underachieves(Hunt can do anything that Barber does and more).
In round four, the picks are Paul Soliai and Doug Free who we did draft in the right place. Soliai can back up Ferguson and replace in the future.

In round five we should have taken Troy Smith, he's having a tremedous camp right now. We haven't drafted a qb in 6 years. What's plan B, if Romo fails.

In round six, we should have taken Corey Hilliard(rt) out of Okla. State and Marcus Hamilton of VA.

I like Courtney Brown, he's a McCauley clone at a much cheaper price.

These picks address all of our needs, Oline,backup qb,wr,rb depth,cb,pass rusher at lb giving us quality depth for now with several possible future starters. We could have completed the rebuilding process by adding Early Doucet of LSU to go with Jason Hill in the first round next year and Andre Woodson at qb in the second round. Some might question whether we had picks or the number of picks I have in certain rounds. Some of the players I had us drafting was based on the fact that we traded away some picks rather arbitrarily.

Why trade both second round picks, why take Marten who's too slow to play left tackle and too light to play right tackle. Why take a project WR when we could have had a stud like Hill. Quentin Moses has been likened to Jason Taylor, so why trade 3 draft picks to Philly just to get Spencer, who like a lot, but we gave up too much to get him, and I don't like who we traded those three picks to. Philly swept us last year, so now we're giving them three picks to continue. We got one good player and they got 3 out of the deal.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

Cogan, I think you are right that your draft would garner an A+ from the draftnicks, so-called experts, and Madden GMs, but none of them have to live with their choices.

I see people talking about "our team" when they really mean Jerry Jones' team. He puts millions into making the Cowboys the best they can be, and the people with him that help make the draft choices put the wellbeing of themselves and their families on the line by their actions and advice. None of them are morons, either.

When you say "We could have done SO much better . . . ," are you talking about your team or Jones' team?

I'll give you the A+, but I'll bet on Ireland, who has something to lose if he is wrong.

Angus, Jerry's team is my team is your team...... They are called the Dallas Cowboys. I have been a fan since 1965 at the tender age of 10. The Cowboys & the NFL for that matter, are bigger than any of us, & will go on long after we are put to rest.

Just because I disagree with the selections Jones made in this year's draft has absolutely nothing to do with how I feel about the Cowboys! I just feel that Jerry & Co. could have made better decisions on some of the picks. No matter what anyone says about taking the "Best available athlete", or "Best available player", many other factors are built into the decision. Is there a player of "need" that is just as good as this player we are about to select who is more of a "depth" player? Is there a player available who can come in & learn the system, improve himself, and take over for the guy who next year will be an UFA?

Some of us believe in taking players we think can play as quickly as possible. Others are of the mindset of taking ST types in the latter rounds.

Any way you slice it, I will always agree on some picks & disagree with others. Kinda like my family. I love my family members, but I will always find myself occasionally disagreeing with them. Does that mean they are someone else's family now that I've disagreed with them? I hope not.

I love the 'Boys, Ireland loves the 'Boys. Hopefully, we can go to the SB together this year & still disagree.....occasionally.

 

[jterrell]

We'll know how much better we could have done in 3 years or so.

I guarantee you every team in the league could have done better.

They'll all look back in three years and see missed picks.

I understand the sentiment that they didn't pick the best values off of say Goose's board but his board is not a guarantee of NFL success, just a rather common ranking.

I expect some of these guys to be wastes and some to be quite valuable but I've been totally wrong before and seen 'B' drafts turn into trash while 'C-' drafts worked out quite nicely.

 

[junk]

I don't see why some people around here feel the need to be an ***. If you disagree with me do so, I could care less, but the whole internet tough guy act is more annoying then anything.

But back to the topic, he didn't have a good senior season, and had a poor senior bowl week. But we won't know for years if my entire argument is shot to hell

Its alright. Just ask him about Kyle Young.