We need Jay Toia to play well

[The Natural]

Is this guy even going to make the team?

 

[Gambit]

No but the solution is to supplement your roster enough pre draft to not be dependent upon hitting on late round picks. Toia contributing this season, or even making the roster should be viewed as a bonus, not addressing a need.

Which FA 1T would you have signed then providing of course they wanted to sign here?

 

[thunderpimp91]

Which FA 1T would you have signed then providing of course they wanted to sign here?

Personally I would have went DT round 1 of this years draft. Thats nothing against Tyler Booker, but I would have taken Grant who I think you can get on the field at multiple positions.

If DT was fully off the table that early I would have looked at going after a BJ Hill type (Not sure if BJ actually made it to FA or got extended before) of FA in that 3yr/$30M range. I also think they should have gone after DJ Reader last offseason. Both options make Mazi a rotational player where he could probably have more success in picking and choosing situations to play him.

If they really wanted to to leave Mazi as the starter and just go get a bigger guy who can rotate which will likely be the role a Toia or Rogers plays this year you could have easily brought in a Johnathan Hankins type for about $1m of guaranteed money to compete with the young guys in camp this year. Thats the frustrating part to me in all this....You can get a down the depth chart veteran 1T to compete with these guys in camp for not a lot of money. In theory they still could too, but waiting to get scraps once camp starts hasn't shown to be a very successful method either.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Well Jay Ratliff, Brock Marion, Leon Lett, Noah Brown, Patrick Crayton were 7th round picks so there is hope it's just not a likely outcome.

I mean come in year 1 and have an impact. Noah, Crayton and Ratliff weren’t day 1 guys. Well let me not say that because I honestly don’t remember lol. I remember Noah wasn’t. I don’t remember about Ratliff. I remember his dominance later on.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

We need him to play well. I have some hope that they will get something out of him. Dane Brugler had him ranked at 116. The Cowboys got him at 217. He should have gone somewhere in-between. Hopefully, Dane was right or close to it.

If we need the 217th pick in the draft to play well, in order to be successful...then we messed up along the way

And not by a little either, but quite a lot

 

[blueblood70]

We need him to play well. I have some hope that they will get something out of him. Dane Brugler had him ranked at 116. The Cowboys got him at 217. He should have gone somewhere in-between. Hopefully, Dane was right or close to it.

First, he's going to have to make the team, he's going to have to take a starting positio,n then we can worry about how he's gonna play in the regular season.... He's fighting against Mazi, the other draft pick, and don't forget Rogers...

it's going to be a very good camp battle to see which one of these big dudes like stand out....

 

[JohnsKey19]

I mean come in year 1 and have an impact. Noah, Crayton and Ratliff weren’t day 1 guys. Well let me not say that because I honestly don’t remember lol. I remember Noah wasn’t. I don’t remember about Ratliff. I remember his dominance later on.

Ratliff flashed some in his 2nd season, but he was definitely more noticeable out there in his 3rd season when Wade took over. I think Wade moved him to NT, whereas Parcells had him primarily at DE.

 

[blueblood70]

If we need the 217th pick in the draft to play well, in order to be successful...then we messed up along the way

And not by a little either, but quite a lot

You mean somehow how Brock Purdy saved the coach and the GM over there to cover up the fact that they missed by trading up three first round picks to get Trey Lance as their future quarterback owing to find out their 7th round pick save the day isn't that crazy how it can work out sometimes.. Didn't it crazy how some 6th round pick became the face of the NFL in the dynasty and in some people's eyes the goat of all quarterbacks came in at a shape pasty 6th rounder you know Tom Brady yep that dude somehow saved New England's **** yes they depended on Tom Brady when everything else wasn't working out...

so yes it is very unlikely but we're talking about a rotational piece as a defensive tackle not a skill player he literally just needs to show enough to give us what we need and run downs obvious rundowns if he's really good at anchoring And just providing a little bit more of a clean area for the safeties and linebackers that get through and do their job that's all we're looking for not a savior because we're not talking about a quarterback or a running back or a left tackle or you know starting cornerback we're talking about a rotational piece almost all the nfl teams rotate the interior defensive lineman a lot so we just need them to be solid so we're not counting on him to save us we're counting on him to help us at least improve our defensive run game..

Can we stop exaggerating when people are saying we don't want to count on no we're hoping we're hoping the man can help that's it we just want him to at least be solid that's it not a savior but don't be mocking low round draft picks harrell Davis was a 6th round draft pick he saved John Elway's career by the way yes very good quarterback probably would have went to the Hall of Fame anyway but would have been thought of as a failure to win the big game had it not been for that low round pick..

Didn't Kurt Warner save the Rams trent Green was not a very good quarterback but they were counting on him do you remember the story of an undrafted free agent who saved the Rams ****!!!

I remember I remember that it can happen just because you all don't think Jayden Blue or mafah or any of these guys can do anything remember it's been done before that means it can happen again!!!!

Are we counting on it no but it would not shock me if any of these three guys turned out to be a whole lot better than people think they are..

 

[blueblood70]

Ratliff flashed some in his 2nd season, but he was definitely more noticeable out there in his 3rd season when Wade took over. I think Wade moved him to NT, whereas Parcells had him primarily at DE.

Just like OSA 3rd round pick look solid at times but look better every year that is a lot like interior defensive lineman are not always good right out of the box...

 

[CowboyFrog]

I have no faith in a 7th rounder being a big part of this team or even getting the chance to. Its Mazi or bust....or Justin Rogers.

100% if Mazi doesnt take a huge step forward the FO's build plan for the D could go up in flames.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I mean come in year 1 and have an impact. Noah, Crayton and Ratliff weren’t day 1 guys. Well let me not say that because I honestly don’t remember lol. I remember Noah wasn’t. I don’t remember about Ratliff. I remember his dominance later on.

Yeah this is the biggest issue with hyping up year 1 late round picks. We do it every year and every single time fans a back tracking. Year 1 simply isnt a realistic time frame for a 7th round pick to make an impact. Toias goal right now is just to make the team and avoid the practice squad. If he can earn a role on goal line and short yardage packages hes doing a remarkable job as a rookie.

Instead we have too many fans that want to put it on these fringe roster guys to immediately fill holes, then they get bashed all during the year when they dont. Its OK to have reasonable expectations for players.

 

[blueblood70]

100% if Mazi doesnt take a huge step forward the FO's build plan for the D could go up in flames.

That is everybody on here have to be either ridiculously positive or ridiculously negative go up in flames seriously II don't think so I think they'll find a way to utilize a by committee and they'll find a way to cover it up they're not just going to sit back and let it go up in flames as you say..

Don't be a drama queen
I mean seriously Dan Quinn's never had a great interior defensive line here and yet some of our defenses were top 5 because they were able to get enough sacks and a pressure they were able to do enough things right that they didn't go up in flames yes we need to find a way to stop the run game but that doesn't make the whole defense go up in flames that I'm gonna keep saying this you act like our whole season depends on Mazi, thats ridiculous..

I'm just pointing that out I get what you're saying but no that is not the case they will find a way to utilize all 3 of these interior defensive nose tackles and they will cover it up best they can but if they can excel in the other areas a lot like Dan Quinn's defenses we will be fine and if you haven't noticed, It looks like our pass rush is going to be at least three times more potent this year than last year so up in flames is a little bit of an exaggeration can we not have middle ground here ever?

 

[CowboyFrog]

That is everybody on here have to be either ridiculously positive or ridiculously negative go up in flames seriously II don't think so I think they'll find a way to utilize a by committee and they'll find a way to cover it up they're not just going to sit back and let it go up in flames as you say..

Don't be a drama queen
were able to get enough sacks and a pressure they were able to do enough things right that they didn't go up in flames yes we need to find a way to stop the run game but that doesn't make the whole defense go up in flames that I'm gonna keep saying this you act like our whole season depends on Mazi, thats ridiculous..

I'm just pointing that out I get what you're saying but no that is not the case they will find a way to utilize all 3 of these interior defensive nose tackles and they will cover it up best they can but if they can excel in the other areas a lot like Dan Quinn's defenses we will be fine and if you haven't noticed, It looks like our pass rush is going to be at least three times more potent this year than last year so up in flames is a little bit of an exaggeration can we not have middle ground here ever?

Calm down francis i said could, they didnt do much to back the DT position up in a draft full of the so to me that says they are betting on Mazi taking a huge step forward this year.

 

[blueblood70]

Calm down francis i said could, they didnt do much to back the DT position up in a draft full of the so to me that says they are betting on Mazi taking a huge step forward this year.

it wont

NEXT

 

[CowboyFrog]

it wont

NEXT

What wont?

 

[jazzcat22]

This is what it comes to almost every off-season after the draft and free agency........ Jerry fails to aquire the best free agents that you can plug and play, so the fans start dreaming that late round players will turn into dominate players

Vaughn was gonna be Darren Sproles
Mafah is gonna be Derrick Henry
And Toia is to be the next Sapp or Suh

No wonder Stephen A Smith and the rest of NFL fans call this fanbase delusional and disgusting

I am sure fans of NE have Maye being the next Brady.
SF fans, as well fans on here, have Purdy being the next Joe Montana.

Love in GB, the next Brett or Aaron.
NYG had Daniel Jones as the next Eli.

At least we may have a few thinking Brian could be the next Jimmy.

 

[Gambit]

Personally I would have went DT round 1 of this years draft. Thats nothing against Tyler Booker, but I would have taken Grant who I think you can get on the field at multiple positions.

If DT was fully off the table that early I would have looked at going after a BJ Hill type (Not sure if BJ actually made it to FA or got extended before) of FA in that 3yr/$30M range. I also think they should have gone after DJ Reader last offseason. Both options make Mazi a rotational player where he could probably have more success in picking and choosing situations to play him.

If they really wanted to to leave Mazi as the starter and just go get a bigger guy who can rotate which will likely be the role a Toia or Rogers plays this year you could have easily brought in a Johnathan Hankins type for about $1m of guaranteed money to compete with the young guys in camp this year. Thats the frustrating part to me in all this....You can get a down the depth chart veteran 1T to compete with these guys in camp for not a lot of money. In theory they still could too, but waiting to get scraps once camp starts hasn't shown to be a very successful method either.

Excluding Grant, because you'd stressed pre draft... At least you've provided a name or 2 thank you for that.

I'm not sure when Hill signed either so let's discard him, fair enough?

You mentioned John Hawkins. In 2024 his run grade was 36.2 slightly higher than Mazis 35.9.

However, weeks 10-16 Mazis run grade was nearly double at 70.5. In 2nd half of season he ranked 26th in DT.

So I'm not convinced John Hankins even at small salary would provide a whole lot of actual competition.

There is a chance Reader comes available after June 1 or if we see an absolute need we could trade for him. There will be available vets during both cut downs we could look at too.

Main point of my question wasn't to start another debate, more to highlight options weren't that great this year to really address it pre draft.

Personally, I love Booker and am extremely excited to see offense with him. I loved Grant too and would have been ecstatic with him. I do wish we would've addressed it prior to 7th round. But we didn't. I like Toias traits and what he can bring to table more in year 2 and beyond and would be over the moon if he can get some meaningful snaps this year. mazi can't play every snap someone will have to rotate in, but his 2nd half of last year was very encouraging that the light may have come on for him.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Excluding Grant, because you'd stressed pre draft... At least you've provided a name or 2 thank you for that.

I'm not sure when Hill signed either so let's discard him, fair enough?

You mentioned John Hawkins. In 2024 his run grade was 36.2 slightly higher than Mazis 35.9.

However, weeks 10-16 Mazis run grade was nearly double at 70.5. In 2nd half of season he ranked 26th in DT.

So I'm not convinced John Hankins even at small salary would provide a whole lot of actual competition.

There is a chance Reader comes available after June 1 or if we see an absolute need we could trade for him. There will be available vets during both cut downs we could look at too.

Main point of my question wasn't to start another debate, more to highlight options weren't that great this year to really address it pre draft.

Personally, I love Booker and am extremely excited to see offense with him. I loved Grant too and would have been ecstatic with him. I do wish we would've addressed it prior to 7th round. But we didn't. I like Toias traits and what he can bring to table more in year 2 and beyond and would be over the moon if he can get some meaningful snaps this year. mazi can't play every snap someone will have to rotate in, but his 2nd half of last year was very encouraging that the light may have come on for him.

Overall not a bad post at all, but I will push back on the bolded part just because in bringing in a guy like Hankins the idea would not be to compete with Mazi, but to compete for a rotational role like a Rogers or Toia would be doing. That way if one of the young guys do impress in camp you can move on from a guy like Hankins relatively cheap, but if they do struggle and show to be more practice squad caliber players then you have a veteran you can plug in. Thats basically what Seattle has done with Hankins signing him for just $350k of guaranteed money and bringing in Bohana, a 5th round rookie, and a UDFA at DT to compete for those depth DT spots. I think thats the better approach than bringing in three young guys and hoping one of them flashes.

 

[shabazz]

I am sure fans of NE have Maye being the next Brady.
SF fans, as well fans on here, have Purdy being the next Joe Montana.

Love in GB, the next Brett or Aaron.
NYG had Daniel Jones as the next Eli.

At least we may have a few thinking Brian could be the next Jimmy.

And like I've posted " he may very well be the next Vince Lombardi"

But in making all of these predictions we look to supporting facts.

I mean, do we really view the potential and ability of the Bears Ben Johnson the same as Schottenheimer?

I'm more than willing to wait and see but no further than that, but if others want to project greater things on to him, so be it.....

 

[Gambit]

Overall not a bad post at all, but I will push back on the bolded part just because in bringing in a guy like Hankins the idea would not be to compete with Mazi, but to compete for a rotational role like a Rogers or Toia would be doing. That way if one of the young guys do impress in camp you can move on from a guy like Hankins relatively cheap, but if they do struggle and show to be more practice squad caliber players then you have a veteran you can plug in. Thats basically what Seattle has done with Hankins signing him for just $350k of guaranteed money and bringing in Bohana, a 5th round rookie, and a UDFA at DT to compete for those depth DT spots. I think thats the better approach than bringing in three young guys and hoping one of them flashes.

That's a fair enough take.