We won't be players in FA again in my opinion

[gjkoeppen]

Let's get back to the real point here.

If the Cowboys sign Martin to an extension, it will have a limited effect on available cap space this year. At worse, it will use maybe an additional million or two in our available cap space, at best, it will actually save a million or so.

This is it. Don't reply. Martin is not going to leave money on the table to fit your fantasy. If it was a reality it would have been done already so they can concentrate of using any available cap for the other three. It hasn't and won't be. THE END!
.

 

[cern]

I logged onto the 4 that were listed in different post but one like you said seems to be dead already and the other 2 are just to hard to follow along without searching down pages and pages of comments. This format is by far the closet to the old DC.com I would have though that most of the regulars from DC.com would have signed up using their screen names from there, but I recognize only a very few from there. I've only had one that replied to me with a new user name that identified himself from the DC.com site but I don't even remember what his name here is anymore.
Here are some links

https://www.*******************/303...d=1515517950178383&notif_t=group_r2j_approved ( this is the (27) The Dallas Cowboys Lite Beer Guys War Room)

https://www.*******************/370977473347661 ( this is DC.com Refugees

http://tksboys.siterubix.com/community/ (this is Dallas Digest)

Hope this helps?
.

thanks for the info. this place feels more at home.

 

[Sydla]

This is it. Don't reply. Martin is not going to leave money on the table to fit your fantasy. If it was a reality it would have been done already so they can concentrate of using any available cap for the other three. It hasn't and won't be. THE END!
.

You have no intention of actually learning anything. You willingly and pigheadedly want to remain an ignorant fool.

I hope you are still around these boards when Martin signs his extension and it doesn't turn out to be this massive cap hit that you keep thinking it will be.

The sad thing here is that you clearly don't even comprehend basic math.

 

[cern]

Sometimes, I wonder what these people are like in real life. Is it an act on an internet message board? Or do you walk through life being this dense and obtuse?

self proclamations of intellectual superiority are typically subjective and suspect.

 

[Sydla]

self proclamations of intellectual superiority are typically subjective and suspect.

It's really not a self proclamation at all. It's just reality. Note that multiple people have pointed out the folly of his ways (and to a lesser extent, yours).

I suspect most people in this thread would agree gjkoeppen had a bad day here and has a very shallow understanding of the cap, how it works, contracts, etc.

 

[Direwolf63]

Sometimes, I wonder what these people are like in real life. Is it an act on an internet message board? Or do you walk through life being this dense and obtuse?

Sydla - you are clearly correct in all of your posts regarding the salary cap.

What has to happen is that we need to bring this thread back when Martin finally signs his deal.

 

[cern]

It's really not a self proclamation at all. It's just reality. Note that multiple people have pointed out the folly of his ways (and to a lesser extent, yours).

I suspect most people in this thread would agree gjkoeppen had a bad day here and has a very shallow understanding of the cap, how it works, contracts, etc.

from what i'm reading, i'd say it's you who doesn't understand it. koeppen and I disagreed often on dc.com. but he does his homework when it comes to facts. opinions, i'm sure even you will agree, are another matter. you have yours. I have mine.

 

[Sydla]

Sydla - you are clearly correct in all of your posts regarding the salary cap.

What has to happen is that we need to bring this thread back when Martin finally signs his deal.

Multiple people have pointed this out. It's not really that hard. The Cowboys do not have to use a lot of cap space this year to sign Martin to an extension. He already counts as $9.3MM against the cap. It's already baked in. So if they sign him to a new deal and his first year cap hit grows to $12MM, they are only actually using $2.7MM of existing available cap space.

I wonder if these guys think that our 2018 cap number as it stands now doesn't include Martin's $9.3MM.

 

[Sydla]

from what i'm reading, i'd say it's you who doesn't understand it. koeppen and I disagreed often on dc.com. but he does his homework when it comes to facts. opinions, i'm sure even you will agree, are another matter. you have yours. I have mine.

I am one of a few in this thread that has pointed out to both of you how this will work under the cap. He chooses to ignore it.

But I am intrigued by this. Explain to me how you think the cap works, how Martin's new deal would fit in, etc.

Further, do you believe how Zeitler's deal and Turner's deal were structured (with a lower first year cap hit) are wrong and misreported?

In other words, why are you so sure that the multiple posters here who have explained to you what likely will happen with Martin are so wrong?

It's basic math. If the Cowboys sign him to a new contract tomorrow and his first year cap hit is $12MM, they only have to use $2.3MM of the available cap space. If the first year cap hit is only $9MM, they actually get $300K back in available under the cap. If the new deal's first year cap hit is $15MM, they only actually use $5.7MM of the available cap space. If the first year cap hit under the new deal is for $8MM, they essentially add back $1.3MM to available cap space.

 

[JustChip]

In 2018 the Cowboys will need to add an upper tier WR or S from FA to keep up.

Agreed, although I would say a quality swing tackle for backup is a higher priority. I would also say that, between WR and S, S is the higher priority. I think we can get a WR in the draft to do what we need this year.

 

[Direwolf63]

You're completely and continually missing a HUGE POINT. The example is used is the VERY SAME contract you used BUT instead getting the option year guarantee PLUS that same contract we've both used starting NEXT season which give Martin MORE money and doesn't leave any on the table. You've just have this fantasy thing in your head and don't see you're fantasy leaves money on the table and these days player aren't doing that especially a perennial All Pro. Pleas just give it a rest I'm tire of trying to hit your head against a wall for you to see the money you're leaving on the table.
.

Can you please give us an example of what you think Martin's new deal will look like?

I'm just trying to understand your perspective on this.

 

[Sydla]

Can you please give us an example of what you think Martin's new deal will look like?

I'm just trying to understand your perspective on this.

It's unclear what he's even trying to say. He last rambled on about playing for the $9MM this year and then signing a big deal next year. I don't know if he's implying that if a new deal was struck today, not only would the Cowboys have to give him a huge signing bonus but also somehow pay him the $9MM on the non guaranteed year this year. He keeps arguing about leaving money on the table.

 

[nightrain]

Agreed, although I would say a quality swing tackle for backup is a higher priority. I would also say that, between WR and S, S is the higher priority. I think we can get a WR in the draft to do what we need this year.

I pick those two positions because I think they are the hardest for rookies to immediately come in and perform at a high level and the Cowboys need impact players there. The swing T is a must if Green or Bass can't be conditioned. The talent drop from Smith is way too steep and he was playing at about 60-70%. Doesn't have to be an upper tier guy.

 

[JustChip]

I pick those two positions because I think they are the hardest for rookies to immediately come in and perform at a high level and the Cowboys need impact players there. The swing T is a must if Green or Bass can't be conditioned. The talent drop from Smith is way too steep and he was playing at about 60-70%. Doesn't have to be an upper tier guy.

On board 100% with the tackle. I don't know why, maybe it's just wistful thinking, but I just have this feeling Earl Thomas is going to be here to address the safety issue.

 

[nightrain]

Can you please give us an example of what you think Martin's new deal will look like?

I'm just trying to understand your perspective on this.

My guess is he gets more across the board than the highest paid guys in the NFL (duration/guarantees/yearly salary). How far north of that is anyone's guess. For a player of his impact, it's a manageable undertaking. Looks like most deals are 4-5 years.



Not sure if this is the most up to date, but cost of a top G is evident.

Player Team TotalValue Avg./Year Total Guarantee Avg. Guar./Year % Guar.
Kevin Zeitler Browns $60,000,000 $12,000,000 $23,000,000 $4,600,000 38.3%
Trai Turner Panthers $45,000,000 $11,250,000 $15,797,000 $3,949,250 35.1%
Gabe Jackson Raiders $55,000,000 $11,000,000 $16,500,000 $3,300,000 30.0%
David DeCastro Steelers $50,000,000 $10,000,000 $16,000,000 $3,200,000 32.0%
Kyle Long Bears $40,000,000 $10,000,000 $18,000,000 $4,500,000 45.0%

 

[Sydla]

My guess is he gets more across the board than the highest paid guys in the NFL (duration/guarantees/yearly salary). How far north of that is anyone's guess. For a player of his impact, it's a manageable undertaking. Looks like most deals are 4-5 years.



Not sure if this is the most up to date, but cost of a top G is evident.

Player Team TotalValue Avg./Year Total Guarantee Avg. Guar./Year % Guar.
Kevin Zeitler Browns $60,000,000 $12,000,000 $23,000,000 $4,600,000 38.3%
Trai Turner Panthers $45,000,000 $11,250,000 $15,797,000 $3,949,250 35.1%
Gabe Jackson Raiders $55,000,000 $11,000,000 $16,500,000 $3,300,000 30.0%
David DeCastro Steelers $50,000,000 $10,000,000 $16,000,000 $3,200,000 32.0%
Kyle Long Bears $40,000,000 $10,000,000 $18,000,000 $4,500,000 45.0%

He absolutely will likely be the highest paid OG in the NFL.

But making him the highest paid OG in football doesn't mean their cap goes to hell in Year 1 and that a new deal to Martin uses up a big portion of their current available cap space that first year of the contract.

 

[nightrain]

He absolutely will likely be the highest paid OG in the NFL.

But making him the highest paid OG in football doesn't mean their cap goes to hell in Year 1 and that a new deal to Martin uses up a big portion of their current available cap space that first year of the contract.

I think it's totally manageable and a great investment. Blue Chip OL have great longevity and are needed to win. It's a no brainer.

 

[Stash]

 

[Point-of-the-Star]

I logged onto the 4 that were listed in different post but one like you said seems to be dead already and the other 2 are just to hard to follow along without searching down pages and pages of comments. This format is by far the closet to the old DC.com I would have though that most of the regulars from DC.com would have signed up using their screen names from there, but I recognize only a very few from there. I've only had one that replied to me with a new user name that identified himself from the DC.com site but I don't even remember what his name here is anymore.
Here are some links

https://www.*******************/303...d=1515517950178383&notif_t=group_r2j_approved ( this is the (27) The Dallas Cowboys Lite Beer Guys War Room)

https://www.*******************/370977473347661 ( this is DC.com Refugees

http://tksboys.siterubix.com/community/ (this is Dallas Digest)

Hope this helps?
.

Thanks for this. I couldn't use my same handle but you might recognize the avatar.

 

[conner01]

Yea cheaper and not nearly as good.

If this team wants to actually get better then we need to start retaining good players like Hitchens who is versatile and actually good too.

We've too many holes where we need to get good players in the draft without adding to the list by letting the likes of Hitchens go.

I think most would agree keeping hitch is a smart move if the money is right. The question is do you pay him starter money to be essentially the 4th LB. he has value because he is a solid player and can play all 3 spots but my guess is someone is going to pay him to be a starter and I don’t think you can pay him starter money