Weird Cleveland formation for Zeke/Cowboys?

[waldoputty]

It makes running the ball easier and you could definitely use it to isolate Bryant in single coverage

That is what I think also.
Just like playing 4WR makes it easier for Zeke to run by spreading the D apart.
This would spread the D apart even more.

 

[T-RO]

I truly appreciate the time you devoted to posing this question but the Cowboys dont need gimmicky plays to be successful.

Belichick is never afraid to use whatever advantage he can....has done all kind of crazy crap over his career. And the Patriots are pretty good, I'd say.

One of the biggest suppressors of innovation is the mental bias against it.

What's the biggest downside of trying something different? A few minutes of extra practice time?

 

[waldoputty]

Belichick is never afraid to use whatever advantage he can....has done all kind of crazy crap over his career. And the Patriots are pretty good, I'd say.

One of the biggest suppressors of innovation is the mental bias against it.

What's the biggest downside of trying something different? A few minutes of extra practice time?

One reason I think it can be implemented easily is that we can simply line up our 11 personnel or 12 personnel this way. Just line them up differently from the huddle.

For 11 personnel, move Free and 2 WR in one side, and Leary, 1 WR and Witten on the other side.
For 12 personnel, move replace one of the WR with a TE on one side.

I just do not see how it does not force the D to move 6 defenders on to the 2 sides, leaving 5 defenders in the middle to go against TSmith, TFred, Martin (best 3 OL), Dak and Zeke.

That leaves us many options based on defense formation including rolling out, pitch out to Zeke release to discouraging blitzing...

 

[conner01]

Lets work out your scenario - I am assuming the QB, RB, WR players are playing at least shotgun depth or even a little deeper on the sides.
1. If the D only has 2 defenders to play your players on the side (TE, OL, WR/RB/QB), then they are risking a huge play every time. Even if there is a huge blitz, all our QB has to do is recognize it and launch the ball to the side with less defenders. So I dont believe that is a credible threat.
2. In terms of the 5 defenders with blitzing in the middle, it is also very dangerous. If the blitzers are coming between the OL, then Zeke simply has to release to the side for a huge play. If the blitzers come from both edges, Zeke can read and release further to the side and has 1 blitzer to beat for a big play. If the blitzers come from one edge, Zeke can read and release to the other side, again another big play.

Did that make any sense?

Gadgets work because they confuse the defense and we have a young D and they didn't adjust to it
Kinda like the fake punt with jones
Those things you do when you see something on film and you take advantage of it
Sometimes they work but it's not something you can do often because NFL DC's adjust fast

 

[jday]

Belichick is never afraid to use whatever advantage he can....has done all kind of crazy crap over his career. And the Patriots are pretty good, I'd say.

One of the biggest suppressors of innovation is the mental bias against it.

What's the biggest downside of trying something different? A few minutes of extra practice time?

That was a well thought-out response and ordinarily I would agree with your sentiment. But there is no amount of scheming that can account for being out executed across the board on one side of the ball. The Cowboys offense is on another level and especially with Dak's run ability, defenses already have to pick their poison.

Based on the op play design, they are attempting to create a pick your poison situation. With the Cowboys that is inherent regardless of how they lineup.

 

[waldoputty]

That was a well thought-out response and ordinarily I would agree with your sentiment. But there is no amount of scheming that can account for being out executed across the board on one side of the ball. The Cowboys offense is on another level and especially with Dak's run ability, defenses already have to pick their poison.

Based on the op play design, they are attempting to create a pick your poison situation. With the Cowboys that is inherent regardless of how they lineup.

True, it is already pick you poison.
The biggest advantage I see is increasing the space the RB/WRs have to work with.
Imagine DLs trying to catch Zeke in space.
Or LB/S trying to arm tackle Zeke.
If they blitz in a 5-on-5 match-up, a Dak roll out or a Zeke pitch-out will each may only have 1 player to beat for a big play.

 

[T-RO]

That was a well thought-out response and ordinarily I would agree with your sentiment. But there is no amount of scheming that can account for being out executed across the board on one side of the ball. The Cowboys offense is on another level and especially with Dak's run ability, defenses already have to pick their poison.

Based on the op play design, they are attempting to create a pick your poison situation. With the Cowboys that is inherent regardless of how they lineup.

True. Our vanilla ice cream is the best in the league right now. We can do a lot just with our basic offense.

But no harm in throwing some sweet chunky stuff on top.

 

[T-RO]

True, it is already pick you poison.
The biggest advantage I see is increasing the space the RB/WRs have to work with.
Imagine DLs trying to catch Zeke in space.
Or LB/S trying to arm tackle Zeke.
If they blitz in a 5-on-5 match-up, a Dak roll out or a Zeke pitch-out will each may only have 1 player to beat for a big play.

I'm down with trying stuff. I like your thread here.

As a counterpoint I will add that it might prove more difficult to make open field blocks...just as it's tougher to make open field tackles.

 

[waldoputty]

I'm down with trying stuff. I like your thread here.

As a counterpoint I will add that it might prove more difficult to make open field blocks...just as it's tougher to make open field tackles.

I guess I am talking mostly about running Zeke from the middle formation.
He can go straight up, around the 'tackles' or on pitch out.
It is Zeke on pitch outs and Dak on roll outs that is particularly interesting to me for a 5-on-5.
If the other side blitz up the middle, they would be open to a pitch out or a roll out.
If the blitz on one side, the other side is open with 1 tackler to beat for a huge play.
If they blitz on both sides, the middle has no safety if they play with 3 DL.
If it is 2 DL and 1 S, then we have 3 OL to beat them up.

 

[jday]

True. Our vanilla ice cream is the best in the league right now. We can do a lot just with our basic offense.

But no harm in throwing some sweet chunky stuff on top.

I'll throw you an olive branch. Put it in your arsenal but hold out using it for the playoffs or the super bowl, just to show the opposition something they haven't seen on tape.

 

[waldoputty]

I'll throw you an olive branch. Put it in your arsenal but hold out using it for the playoffs or the super bowl, just to show the opposition something they haven't seen on tape.

ok, how about an ice cream like T-Ro

 

[theebs]

I think Tampa did this exact thing vs altanta last thursday. I have been waiting for someone else to do this stuff after the patriots did it a few years ago.

 

[waldoputty]

I think Tampa did this exact thing vs altanta last thursday. I have been waiting for someone else to do this stuff after the patriots did it a few years ago.

I just think our personnel is perfect for it
2 rbs (zeke jackson) who are big and fast
Zeke would kill given open space
Dez
If you dare put Romo in the middle, you could put Dak on one side and get even more options
3 OL who can play tackle - TSmith Martin Free not counting Green
3 probowl OL who can play the middle formation - TSmith TFred Martin

 

[waldoputty]

Imagine putting 280lb 4.65 Rico Gathers as one of the rb/wr players
we really have the players to make this a nightmare matchup

here is another option, imagine a jet sweep off this formation, with ALL the huge gaps.

ZBS is supposed to create gaps to run through.
by design, the gaps between the middle formation and the 2 outside formations is at least 10 yards