What about letting Steele and Guyton battle it out for the starting RT spot?

[TwentyOne]

To me Guyton is a good RT all day long. He isn't very good at left.

where do you got that from?

 

[atlantacowboy]

You're right. Looks like you save $9M in a restructure this year vs $14M with a june 1 cut. Still for that price I would rather bring him back. Yes hes a lower end starter, but hes still probably the best Tackle on the roster unless they are seriously looking to bump Smith outside. I have some optimism around Richards being able to start, but I hate to put all my eggs in that basket. I'd rather see him and Guyton compete for the LT job IMO.

I think Guyton belongs on the right side. I say we roll with Richards or a rookie LT. Not a great draft for offensive tackles but maybe if that kid from LSU slips.......

 

[atlantacowboy]

Hot take but I would argue that Steele's contract really isnt that bad. Hes the 23rd highest AAV in football for Tackles, and $12M per year less than the higher paid Tackle Tristan Wirfs. Steele is a lower end starter in this league, but once you take out the rookie contracts at Tackle he is also paid like one of the lower end starting Tackles in football.

If the Cowboys were to release him Steele would probably get a small raise in free agency. Jonah Williams is probably a good comp in terms of age and overall value and got $15M on the open market last offseason.

He's the 23rd highest paid tackle but PFF ranks him as the 44th best tackle. So, he's overpaid relative to his production. Those are the contracts smart team get out of asap.

The team is going to have to shuffle the roster a lot more than they normally do.

 

[thunderpimp91]

He's the 23rd highest paid tackle but PFF ranks him as the 44th best tackle. So, he's overpaid relative to his production. Those are the contracts smart team get out of asap.

The team is going to have to shuffle the roster a lot more than they normally do.

If you have a better option I would agree, but I don't think the Cowboys have that unless they want to spend more in FA than theyll save by cutting him or use another premium pick on the position this year. The 44th best Tackle is still a starting caliber Tackle for a league that will start at least 64 of them each year, and $16M is probably about market value for type of player. Once Ronnie Stanley gets paid, a guy like Caleb McGary may be in position to hold out for an extension, factor in a few rookies likely to get extensions and Steele probably goes into 2025 around #30 on the pay scale. Factor in the guys who on rookie contracts still who can't be higher on the list and its about right.

 

[kskboys]

Can we just stop with trying to make our established Pro Bowl guard move to Tackle?

It's a very weird obsession. I can't believe how many people fell for Jerry's spew that he'd be an OLT in the pros. He's an OG in the pros, and he was always going to be an OG.

 

[atlantacowboy]

If you have a better option I would agree, but I don't think the Cowboys have that unless they want to spend more in FA than theyll save by cutting him or use another premium pick on the position this year. The 44th best Tackle is still a starting caliber Tackle for a league that will start at least 64 of them each year, and $16M is probably about market value for type of player. Once Ronnie Stanley gets paid, a guy like Caleb McGary may be in position to hold out for an extension, factor in a few rookies likely to get extensions and Steele probably goes into 2025 around #30 on the pay scale. Factor in the guys who on rookie contracts still who can't be higher on the list and its about right.

The better option is Guyton. Steele is a low tier starting tackle being paid like an upper tier starting tackle. He needs to go. We can put Richards at LT, draft one, or sign one.

 

[thunderpimp91]

The better option is Guyton. Steele is a low tier starting tackle being paid like an upper tier starting tackle. He needs to go. We can put Richards at LT, draft one, or sign one.

We will have to strongly disagree on this one. I'm not sure what about Guyton's 2024 season makes anyone think he is ready for a starting role in this league. If he earns it in camp then great, but was well below average and expecting him to pull a complete 180 in one offseason is not a good bet. Thats the same bet we made last year with Mazi....another year of development, new scheme, new coaches, and stick him back to his natural position at 1T. Its the same argument we are trying use for Guyton, and I just dont get it other than its simply blind optimism.

 

[kskboys]

We will have to strongly disagree on this one. I'm not sure what about Guyton's 2024 season makes anyone think he is ready for a starting role in this league. If he earns it in camp then great, but was well below average and expecting him to pull a complete 180 in one offseason is not a good bet. Thats the same bet we made last year with Mazi....another year of development, new scheme, new coaches, and stick him back to his natural position at 1T. Its the same argument we are trying use for Guyton, and I just dont get it other than its simply blind optimism.

Guyton has excellent NFL talent. Mazi does not. Not even remotely close to the same situation.

We overdrafted Guyton due to extreme need, which was due to pass horrfic personnel decisions by Jerry. Painted himself into a corner once again.

Guyton is a freak of an athlete who came in very very raw, needing a ton of technique work and a little more strength. Should have been a 3rd round pick due to his not being close to ready to play.

I have no clue how so many keep doing it, they keep mistaking being raw for being a bad player. Hey, maybe he won't turn out, we don't know that yet. But, what we do know is that he has top 5 NFL talent, of that there is no question. Mazi only has backup NFL talent.

 

[atlantacowboy]

We will have to strongly disagree on this one. I'm not sure what about Guyton's 2024 season makes anyone think he is ready for a starting role in this league. If he earns it in camp then great, but was well below average and expecting him to pull a complete 180 in one offseason is not a good bet. Thats the same bet we made last year with Mazi....another year of development, new scheme, new coaches, and stick him back to his natural position at 1T. Its the same argument we are trying use for Guyton, and I just dont get it other than its simply blind optimism.

He played RT in college. Moving him to the left side was a mistake. He would have a hard time doing worse than Steele. When you spend a first round pick on a player, you have to give him 2 or 3 years to show. Tyler Smith didn't light the world on fire either his rookie year. In fact, he was moved to G b/c he sucked at LT filling in for Tyron.

Mazi just sucks. It was a bad draft pick and he's had enough time to show that he's not getting any better. He got a year left on his cheap rookie deal. A smart team with depth would cut him, but that's not us.

 

[kskboys]

He played RT in college. Moving him to the left side was a mistake. He would have a hard time doing worse than Steele. When you spend a first round pick on a player, you have to give him 2 or 3 years to show. Tyler Smith didn't light the world on fire either his rookie year. In fact, he was moved to G b/c he sucked at LT filling in for Tyron.

Mazi just sucks. It was a bad draft pick and he's had enough time to show that he's not getting any better. He got a year left on his cheap rookie deal. A smart team with depth would cut him, but that's not us.

Blindside protector in college. Left handed QB.

Which means he needs major technique work. We were prolly too dumb to understand that when we drafted him.

Make no mistake about it, Guyton has top 5 OLT talent, it's just a matter of him correcting technique issues. He shouldn't have been starting last season.

I do agree that starting him at OLT his rook year was a mistake. Just too much correction needed. He needs to retrain his muscles/instincts for OLT, which will take a while.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Blindside protector in college. Left handed QB.

Which means he needs major technique work. We were prolly too dumb to understand that when we drafted him.

Make no mistake about it, Guyton has top 5 OLT talent, it's just a matter of him correcting technique issues. He shouldn't have been starting last season.

I do agree that starting him at OLT his rook year was a mistake. Just too much correction needed. He needs to retrain his muscles/instincts for OLT, which will take a while.

Assuming he can make those adjustments, sure. I'm not giving up on him. Maybe the new coaching staff can fix him. But, the easiest thing to do is admit the error and put him on the side he fits.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Guyton has excellent NFL talent. Mazi does not. Not even remotely close to the same situation.

We overdrafted Guyton due to extreme need, which was due to pass horrfic personnel decisions by Jerry. Painted himself into a corner once again.

Guyton is a freak of an athlete who came in very very raw, needing a ton of technique work and a little more strength. Should have been a 3rd round pick due to his not being close to ready to play.

I have no clue how so many keep doing it, they keep mistaking being raw for being a bad player. Hey, maybe he won't turn out, we don't know that yet. But, what we do know is that he has top 5 NFL talent, of that there is no question. Mazi only has backup NFL talent.

Fair take, I just disagree. They're both fringe 1st round/2nd round talents that were drafted high. Both profiled as having excellent physical traits but needed development. Mazi I think had the bigger change his rookie year losing a ton of weight and being pushed into most of his snaps coming at 3T. I think both are extremely gifted players. I think Mazi really struggles processing information quickly. He doesnt make good reads, and struggles to react when the OL gets moving. Similar for Guyton while I do think part of his issue is that he needs to get stronger, the speed of the game just seems to much for him. That switch could still get flipped and it all comes together, I just didnt see the progression last year from him outside of a couple games mid year but then things started to go off the rails again.

I didn't hate the Guyton pick a year ago, i just dont see tape on the guy to suggest hes going to make a huge leap in one offseason, and really got down on the guy as the year went on. There was nothing that he did consistently well when I watch the film. Speed rushers abused him on the double moves. Power rushers abused him with fairly simple outside rip moves. He gets caught leaning way too often. Zone blocking wasnt great. Power run game I will give him some props for, but thats the minority of run calls in todays game.

 

[thunderpimp91]

He played RT in college. Moving him to the left side was a mistake. He would have a hard time doing worse than Steele. When you spend a first round pick on a player, you have to give him 2 or 3 years to show. Tyler Smith didn't light the world on fire either his rookie year. In fact, he was moved to G b/c he sucked at LT filling in for Tyron.

Mazi just sucks. It was a bad draft pick and he's had enough time to show that he's not getting any better. He got a year left on his cheap rookie deal. A smart team with depth would cut him, but that's not us.

I just dont get the argument that he will thrive as a RT over LT. Its literally just flipping techniques, and honestly I might argue that RT is the more difficult position with the way defenses have been lining up the last few years as you'll typically get the tougher assignments on the right side. If we wanted to talk about bumping him inside to Guard I get it and could see reason for optimism. Flipping from one side of the line to the other is something guys do all the time, and to be honest if we are that worried about it why not just leave him at LT for some continuity instead of changing him once again?

Tyler Smith had a very strong rookie year IMO. His struggle and why I think they wont bump him back out was simply the penalty issue. Outside of those (which is still an issue dont get me wrong) I think the upside was clear. Even today there is no shortage of people who would like to bump him back outside to Tackle. It feels like we are doing some rewriting of history here. I had to google it just to make sure I'm not crazy, but its not hard to find several publications naming him to all rookie teams that year.

Bucky Brooks All Breakout Team
PFF All Rookie Team
PFWA All rookie team

 

[Coogiguy03]

We will have to strongly disagree on this one. I'm not sure what about Guyton's 2024 season makes anyone think he is ready for a starting role in this league. If he earns it in camp then great, but was well below average and expecting him to pull a complete 180 in one offseason is not a good bet. Thats the same bet we made last year with Mazi....another year of development, new scheme, new coaches, and stick him back to his natural position at 1T. Its the same argument we are trying use for Guyton, and I just dont get it other than its simply blind optimism.

maybe this new coaching staff can make Guyton and get Steele back to playing better

 

[thunderpimp91]

maybe this new coaching staff can make Guyton and get Steele back to playing better

Its possible, but its just not a very good idea to risk your season on that gamble. I think Dan Quinn did a nice job in Washington this year, but its not like he took the 2023 group and took them from worst team in football to super bowl contenders....they actually went out and got better players both in the draft and free agency. This idea that everything will be saved from a magical group of new coaches is far fetched to me. Its not like Mike McCarthy had no idea what he was doing. Brian Shottenheimer was the OC last year. Mike Solari has a ton of pro coaching experience, and honestly people found optimism when they fired Philbin and brought him in. At some point we have to acknowledge that while coaching does matter this league is about the players and how much talent you have on your roster. There are only 32 NFL teams and only the top 32 guys get HC roles. As much as we want to clown on some of these guys they aren't football dumb by any stretch.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Its possible, but its just not a very good idea to risk your season on that gamble. I think Dan Quinn did a nice job in Washington this year, but its not like he took the 2023 group and took them from worst team in football to super bowl contenders....they actually went out and got better players both in the draft and free agency. This idea that everything will be saved from a magical group of new coaches is far fetched to me. Its not like Mike McCarthy had no idea what he was doing. Brian Shottenheimer was the OC last year. Mike Solari has a ton of pro coaching experience, and honestly people found optimism when they fired Philbin and brought him in. At some point we have to acknowledge that while coaching does matter this league is about the players and how much talent you have on your roster. There are only 32 NFL teams and only the top 32 guys get HC roles. As much as we want to clown on some of these guys they aren't football dumb by any stretch.

I hear you it's not that these new coaches are miracle workers, but maybe that these coaches techniques etc may be different and more suited to something these guys have been used to in their past with other coaches in college/pros. It remains to be seen

 

[thunderpimp91]

I hear you it's not that these new coaches are miracle workers, but maybe that these coaches techniques etc may be different and more suited to something these guys have been used to in their past with other coaches in college/pros. It remains to be seen

I think there are some things that could help, especially if Shotty is serious about committing to a run game, playing more balanced with under center looks, etc. The magical technique changes that takes players to another level just seems like a fairy tale to me, especially for a player like Guyton who I think his biggest issue is between the ears. He actually uses very strong technique and discipline...until he doesnt. The best hope for him is that getting more reps causes the game to start to slow down for him.

 

[Coogiguy03]

I think there are some things that could help, especially if Shotty is serious about committing to a run game, playing more balanced with under center looks, etc. The magical technique changes that takes players to another level just seems like a fairy tale to me, especially for a player like Guyton who I think his biggest issue is between the ears. He actually uses very strong technique and discipline...until he doesnt. The best hope for him is that getting more reps causes the game to start to slow down for him.

there you go!!!!