What happens next?

[Anjinsan]

For those in the know, what happens after the pro-business 8th Appeals Court upholds the lockout?

 

[casmith07]

For those in the know, what happens after the pro-business 8th Appeals Court upholds the lockout?

More lockout. Only other avenue after that is the US Supreme Court.

If this gets to the Supreme Court without a deal, I might be done with the NFL.

 

[CCBoy]

More lockout. Only other avenue after that is the US Supreme Court.

If this gets to the Supreme Court without a deal, I might be done with the NFL.

Not so fast, Sir...here, Congress just might grab ahold of it's 'sporting' oversights and provide an umbrella once again. They still could.

 

[CooterBrown]

For those in the know, what happens after the pro-business 8th Appeals Court upholds the lockout?

That question is an assumption. There is no way to know what the 8th court will do. In my opinion, the odds are still in favor of the players. (and, I'm a supporter of the owners) But, even this temporary stay looks favorable for the owners. Now would be the perfect time for both sides to reach an agreement, but both sides seem so set on "total victory" that there likely won't be any agreement until after the 8th circuit and the NLRB have their say.

But, in response to your speculative question. If the 8th Circuit upholds the lockout, NOTHING happens immediately. No trades, no cuts, no free agent signings, no draft pick signings, no mini-camps, no OTAs, no training campls, no pre-season, no season until a CBA is in place. The players can ASK the U.S. Supreme Court to consider the issue, but as someone pointed out earlier, it isn't likely the Supreme Court is going to get involved in an interlocutory injunction in a pending case. If the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case, the Brady case continues with months of protracted discovery arguments, the lockout continues, the parties continue to mediate, the owners refuse to concede, the players refuse to concede, the football season is in doubt, some of the players file bankruptcy, the Union members start bickering among themselves, the owners start bickering among themselves, the fans get angrier, the TV networks start re-thinking their next contract with the NFL and EVERYBODY except the NCAA loses.
(For those who don't know this, nobody can force the Supreme Court to hear or consider anything. They get to pick and choose which cases to consider unless the Supreme Court has exclusive original jurisdiction.)

 

[CCBoy]

That question is an assumption. There is no way to know what the 8th court will do. In my opinion, the odds are still in favor of the players. (and, I'm a supporter of the owners) But, even this temporary stay looks favorable for the owners. Now would be the perfect time for both sides to reach an agreement, but both sides seem so set on "total victory" that there likely won't be any agreement until after the 8th circuit and the NLRB have their say.

But, in response to your speculative question. If the 8th Circuit upholds the lockout, NOTHING happens immediately. No trades, no cuts, no free agent signings, no draft pick signings, no mini-camps, no OTAs, no training campls, no pre-season, no season until a CBA is in place. The players can ASK the U.S. Supreme Court to consider the issue, but as someone pointed out earlier, it isn't likely the Supreme Court is going to get involved in an interlocutory injunction in a pending case. If the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case, the Brady case continues with months of protracted discovery arguments, the lockout continues, the parties continue to mediate, the owners refuse to concede, the players refuse to concede, the football season is in doubt, some of the players file bankruptcy, the Union members start bickering among themselves, the owners start bickering among themselves, the fans get angrier, the TV networks start re-thinking their next contract with the NFL and EVERYBODY except the NCAA loses.
(For those who don't know this, nobody can force the Supreme Court to hear or consider anything. They get to pick and choose which cases to consider unless the Supreme Court has exclusive original jurisdiction.)

Thanks, Cooter, for a really informative post on subject.

And applying a fan's reasoning, this would mean that players get very antsy and could well force the issue of completing a new CBA in the now. And comply with the original, but generalized intent of the owners.

Jerry said in his after draft Presser, that at several points in negotiations, the two sides were actually pretty close to an agreement.

 

[CooterBrown]

Jerry said in his after draft Presser, that at several points in negotiations, the two sides were actually pretty close to an agreement.

Let's all hope they can get close enough and finalize a deal so we can have football.

 

[TD-33]

For those in the know, what happens after the pro-business 8th Appeals Court upholds the lockout?

We sign Huff and Mankins and beast 2011

 

[CooterBrown]

Let's all hope they can get close enough and finalize a deal so we can have football.

I think the best thing that will eventually come of this lockout/lawsuit thing is that both sides will have a good understanding of their relative bargaining strengths and weaknesses and when they reach an agreement it will be a long-lasting deal instead of one that can be opted out of in a few years to renew the fight.

 

[CooterBrown]

We sign Huff and Mankins and beast 2011

If the lockout is upheld, we sign nobody.

 

[TD-33]

If the lockout is upheld, we sign nobody.

yeah I know that.

 

[Anjinsan]

That question is an assumption. There is no way to know what the 8th court will do. In my opinion, the odds are still in favor of the players. (and, I'm a supporter of the owners) But, even this temporary stay looks favorable for the owners. Now would be the perfect time for both sides to reach an agreement, but both sides seem so set on "total victory" that there likely won't be any agreement until after the 8th circuit and the NLRB have their say.

But, in response to your speculative question. If the 8th Circuit upholds the lockout, NOTHING happens immediately. No trades, no cuts, no free agent signings, no draft pick signings, no mini-camps, no OTAs, no training campls, no pre-season, no season until a CBA is in place. The players can ASK the U.S. Supreme Court to consider the issue, but as someone pointed out earlier, it isn't likely the Supreme Court is going to get involved in an interlocutory injunction in a pending case. If the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case, the Brady case continues with months of protracted discovery arguments, the lockout continues, the parties continue to mediate, the owners refuse to concede, the players refuse to concede, the football season is in doubt, some of the players file bankruptcy, the Union members start bickering among themselves, the owners start bickering among themselves, the fans get angrier, the TV networks start re-thinking their next contract with the NFL and EVERYBODY except the NCAA loses.
(For those who don't know this, nobody can force the Supreme Court to hear or consider anything. They get to pick and choose which cases to consider unless the Supreme Court has exclusive original jurisdiction.)

How does the NLRB fit into all of this? What's there role and how/when do they get involved?

 

[burmafrd]

From what I have seen, the players always wanted to go to the courts and the owners were willing as well. Huge mistake on both sides. Now the lawyers are running things and are the only ones making money so they have no interest in cutting it short. In the end going to the courts is not going to really help anyone: owners, players, fans.

 

[burmafrd]

How does the NLRB fit into all of this? What's there role and how/when do they get involved?

I think the NLRB is pretty much out of it now that the courts have it. What I wish Nelson had done was order both sides to submit to binding arbitration run by the NLRB. It would have been much better for all concerned if that had happened.

 

[CooterBrown]

I think the NLRB is pretty much out of it now that the courts have it. What I wish Nelson had done was order both sides to submit to binding arbitration run by the NLRB. It would have been much better for all concerned if that had happened.

It depends on the ruling of the 8th Court. The owner's position throughout has been the the court does not have jurisdiction over a labor dispute. If the 8th Court agrees with that argument Judge Nelson's ruling will be voided for lack of jurisdiction, then the NLRB will determine whether the decertification by the union was legitimate or "a sham" as the owners contend. Then the NLRB will decide what the relative rights of each side are as to lockouts, strikes, replacement players, etc.

 

[Anjinsan]

Not so fast, Sir...here, Congress just might grab ahold of it's 'sporting' oversights and provide an umbrella once again. They still could.

Congress is ruled by pro business now, so that would probably not be favorable to the players.

 

[honyock]

That question is an assumption. There is no way to know what the 8th court will do. In my opinion, the odds are still in favor of the players. (and, I'm a supporter of the owners) But, even this temporary stay looks favorable for the owners. Now would be the perfect time for both sides to reach an agreement, but both sides seem so set on "total victory" that there likely won't be any agreement until after the 8th circuit and the NLRB have their say.

Thanks for explaining that. Question: aren't there actually three possible steps coming up? First: the ruling probably this week on whether the stay is granted until the hearing on the legality of the lockout. Second: the hearing on the legality of the lockout, which I've heard might take a month or two. Third, the actual Brady v NFl lawsuit, which could take years (and which would be dropped if and when a new CBA gets done). And the two key dates coming up soon are the ruling on the stay (maybe this week) and the ruling on the lockout (maybe next month).

Ive had this opinion that the best incentive to get a new deal done, would be if the lockout is ruled illegal (or if the stay is not granted in the meantime). It would look like a win for the players, but it actually is bad for both sides, which would be an incentive for both to get back to the bargaining table.

For the owners and league, it means many headaches about treading lightly to avoid possible antitrust violations, and continuing under a system that they claim isn't financially sound.

But for the players, it means that they have no healthcare, no pension plan, potentially no salary floor, and veteran players who aren't stars may be at more risk of getting cut for cost-cutting reasons.

It's a lose-lose for both sides to continue without a CBA. So I think that could be good for fans, because both sides will have more incentive to get a long-term deal done.

 

[Mrdude108]

I just hope it is not upheld because (from what I heard on espn) if it is not upheld we would have FA and minicamps...ect in only a few days when they make their ruling, but if it is upheld we are looking at, at least mid June until anything happens and that would be horrible. Fans would seriously get pissed and I think this ruling could make or break the NFL.

 

[Anjinsan]

I just hope it is not upheld because (from what I heard on espn) if it is not upheld we would have FA and minicamps...ect in only a few days when they make their ruling, but if it is upheld we are looking at, at least mid June until anything happens and that would be horrible. Fans would seriously get pissed and I think this ruling could make or break the NFL.

If it is upheld, I wish there was a way us fans could make voices heard. But I'm afraid the owners know that we'll come back no matter what. Big business rules again.

 

[CCBoy]

It depends on the ruling of the 8th Court. The owner's position throughout has been the the court does not have jurisdiction over a labor dispute. If the 8th Court agrees with that argument Judge Nelson's ruling will be voided for lack of jurisdiction, then the NLRB will determine whether the decertification by the union was legitimate or "a sham" as the owners contend. Then the NLRB will decide what the relative rights of each side are as to lockouts, strikes, replacement players, etc.

At last, some solid legs to the creature about....

 

[CooterBrown]

Ive had this opinion that the best incentive to get a new deal done, would be if the lockout is ruled illegal (or if the stay is not granted in the meantime). It would look like a win for the players, but it actually is bad for both sides, which would be an incentive for both to get back to the bargaining table.

If either side perceives that they won, they would be willing to settle, but they aren't likely to be "fair" to the other side, and that will be galling to the other side, leaving the future up in the air. Both sides would be better off if they settled without "winning."