What To Do With our front 7...

[Chuck 54]

The origin of the 3-4 defense, the old high school and college 5-2, had the purpose of being better against the run than the 4-3.

The 3-4 is generally a better run defense, not a better pass rush defense; however, everything depends on personel with either alignment.

The key to pass rushing from the 3-4 is that you're still only rushing 4 guys most of the time; the NT and DE's are rushing, supposedly, and the concept is that the offensive line isn't supposed to know which OLB is coming on any particular play. If they don't know which guy is coming, then they are making adjustments on the fly, and that is an advantage to the defense.

Do you need two DWare's? No. But you need two good pass rushers. It's the same in 4-3; you generally have a speedy pass rush specialist on one end, but even though the other end may be bigger and stronger and more stout to face the TE and run game, he still has to have some impact on pass plays.

So what do we have/had? DWare is such a great pass rusher that he rushes the vast majority of the time; he's pretty darn good in coverage and tackling, but he rushes almost every play. Teams can put their TE on either side they want to get the blocking matchups they prefer for Ware, to get him on the side they prefer. On the other side, we praise the run stuffing skills of Spencer, so he seldom gets called on to rush the passer.

Now, maybe we called on him to rush the passer less and less because he was needed in coverage or because he just wasn't very effective. Often, our front looked more like a four-man front with Spencer in the 3-pt. stance as a lineman with two others, and Ware rushing as a stand-up.

If Ware is going to rush the passer 90 percent of the time or better, then we must get some DL-men who can also win 1-1 matchups and get sacks. If we're going to continue with DL-men who can do little besides occupy space, then we must find another speedy pass rusher for the other OLB spot so that we can 1) get closer to a 60/40 pass rush situation between Ware and him...this may cut down on some Ware sacks but improve the overall defense, or Ware may get just as many sacks easier, and 2) be more effective when sending both OLBs...the blitz.

At #14 in the draft, we need to be open to the best quality of player there when we're on the clock. If a CB is by far the top player, then you nab him at #14, but if there is an OLB guy like the kid the Skins picked up last year and the CB's are in round 2, then use the #1 on OLB. You're not using your #1 to replace a player in FA (Spencer) and feeling like you didn't progress. You are using your #1 to get a quality OLB who can add to your pass rush and make plays, making your defense scary from both sides.

There's no question that Newman must be replaced with a younger, bigger, more physical CB through the draft or FA, but that CB doesn't have to be a top draft pick at #14 unless he deserves that spot. We can upgrade that spot easily in round 1 or 2, not to mention FA.

However, no offense to Ware who gives his all, but part of the reason he disappears at crunch time is because at crunch time, offenses make sure he doesn't beat them...anyone can be blocked or schemed out of the play. We need to be better, faster, nastier up front, both sides and up the middle, and that will help the rest of the secondary do a better job.

 

[Yeagermeister]

I agree on the draft. We have so many holes to fill that taking the best player available the best strategy.

 

[Dodger]

Good stuff. I agree with all of it. I'm also thinking either a pass rusher or corner with our first pick, whichever is the better talent at that spot.

 

[Nova]

At #14 in the draft, we need to be open to the best quality of player there when we're on the clock. If a CB is by far the top player, then you nab him at #14, but if there is an OLB guy like the kid the Skins picked up last year and the CB's are in round 2, then use the #1 on OLB. You're not using your #1 to replace a player in FA (Spencer) and feeling like you didn't progress. You are using your #1 to get a quality OLB who can add to your pass rush and make plays, making your defense scary from both sides.

There's no question that Newman must be replaced with a younger, bigger, more physical CB through the draft or FA, but that CB doesn't have to be a top draft pick at #14 unless he deserves that spot. We can upgrade that spot easily in round 1 or 2, not to mention FA.

I agree with you. Take whoever is best on the board for defense. But I fear Morris Claiborne and Dre Kirkpatrick may already be gone by the time we're up.

Really it's probably going to come down to is Melvin Ingram/Courtney Upshaw a better value than Dre Kirkpatrick? My initial thought is yes since Xavier Rhodes will probably be available in round 2-3, and he sort of fits the same mold as Kirkpatrick.

I'd like to see us draft an OLB that can get to the QB or a big NT that allows Ratliff to become a DE.

I'd rather draft for the front 7 than the secondary, because I think it's less likely to be a 'miss'. Also, there are more secondary options in FA than there are OLB options and do we really want to keep Spencer for the money he will surely want?

 

[Dodger]

...and do we really want to keep Spencer for the money he will surely want?

Not me. We need someone who is better at rushing the passer at his position. He can go as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Wolfpack]

I'd rather solidify the OL for once. Draft a top G and at least one more interior position. Tired of watching Romo running for his life year after year while the 1st round defensive picks turn out as marginal players. Romo can hang 30+ up most weeks with a real line.

 

[AbeBeta]

I'd rather solidify the OL for once. Draft a top G and at least one more interior position. Tired of watching Romo running for his life year after year while the 1st round defensive picks turn out as marginal players. Romo can hang 30+ up most weeks with a real line.

Romo, Austin, Bryant, Robinson (if we re-sign him), Murray, Jones, Witten.

That's about as talented a group of offensive players as you will see in this league.

Give these guys a few more solid OL players and the defensive problems will fade.

 

[DallasEast]

I'd rather solidify the OL for once. Draft a top G and at least one more interior position. Tired of watching Romo running for his life year after year while the 1st round defensive picks turn out as marginal players. Romo can hang 30+ up most weeks with a real line.

Romo, Austin, Bryant, Robinson (if we re-sign him), Murray, Jones, Witten.

That's about as talented a group of offensive players as you will see in this league.

Give these guys a few more solid OL players and the defensive problems will fade.

 

[craig71]

The origin of the 3-4 defense, the old high school and college 5-2, had the purpose of being better against the run than the 4-3.

The 3-4 is generally a better run defense, not a better pass rush defense; however, everything depends on personel with either alignment.

The key to pass rushing from the 3-4 is that you're still only rushing 4 guys most of the time; the NT and DE's are rushing, supposedly, and the concept is that the offensive line isn't supposed to know which OLB is coming on any particular play. If they don't know which guy is coming, then they are making adjustments on the fly, and that is an advantage to the defense.

Do you need two DWare's? No. But you need two good pass rushers. It's the same in 4-3; you generally have a speedy pass rush specialist on one end, but even though the other end may be bigger and stronger and more stout to face the TE and run game, he still has to have some impact on pass plays.

So what do we have/had? DWare is such a great pass rusher that he rushes the vast majority of the time; he's pretty darn good in coverage and tackling, but he rushes almost every play. Teams can put their TE on either side they want to get the blocking matchups they prefer for Ware, to get him on the side they prefer. On the other side, we praise the run stuffing skills of Spencer, so he seldom gets called on to rush the passer.

Now, maybe we called on him to rush the passer less and less because he was needed in coverage or because he just wasn't very effective. Often, our front looked more like a four-man front with Spencer in the 3-pt. stance as a lineman with two others, and Ware rushing as a stand-up.

If Ware is going to rush the passer 90 percent of the time or better, then we must get some DL-men who can also win 1-1 matchups and get sacks. If we're going to continue with DL-men who can do little besides occupy space, then we must find another speedy pass rusher for the other OLB spot so that we can 1) get closer to a 60/40 pass rush situation between Ware and him...this may cut down on some Ware sacks but improve the overall defense, or Ware may get just as many sacks easier, and 2) be more effective when sending both OLBs...the blitz.

At #14 in the draft, we need to be open to the best quality of player there when we're on the clock. If a CB is by far the top player, then you nab him at #14, but if there is an OLB guy like the kid the Skins picked up last year and the CB's are in round 2, then use the #1 on OLB. You're not using your #1 to replace a player in FA (Spencer) and feeling like you didn't progress. You are using your #1 to get a quality OLB who can add to your pass rush and make plays, making your defense scary from both sides.

There's no question that Newman must be replaced with a younger, bigger, more physical CB through the draft or FA, but that CB doesn't have to be a top draft pick at #14 unless he deserves that spot. We can upgrade that spot easily in round 1 or 2, not to mention FA.

However, no offense to Ware who gives his all, but part of the reason he disappears at crunch time is because at crunch time, offenses make sure he doesn't beat them...anyone can be blocked or schemed out of the play. We need to be better, faster, nastier up front, both sides and up the middle, and that will help the rest of the secondary do a better job.

I think Ware needs some help, I just don't know if he will get it this year or not. Spears and Hatcher are role players and are not impact players by any stretch of the imagination. I would think that Coleman is gone. Lissemore has shown a few flashes but still falls in the "role player" category. Geathers is just camp fodder as near as I can tell. Ratliff is on the decline, all too many times this year he has been handled by a single blocker. Ratliff is sort of an enigma to me,a tweener if you will, he isn't a true nose tackle and I don't see him as an end either. His biggest asset was his intial quickness off the line and I don't see him expressing that trait very often as of late. Maybe a bigger body to pick up some snaps at the nose will help keep Ratliff a little fresher as a season progressess. Brent is another anomaly, I thought he was starting to flash as a rookie but he seemed to be MIA much of this year. Spencer is a good player to have in a rotation but he simply disappears all to often. Butler is too light in the seat to be an every down player IMO. Lee is an up and coming player that shows great instincts. Brady is a role player at this stage of his career and nothing more. Brooking is done, stick a fork in him. Carter is an unknown but he did block a punt on special teams. So as near as I can tell the front seven has Ware and Lee for top tier players to go with some has been's and some never will be types and possibly some could be's. You are right in thinking that Ware could use some help, but the problem is that this team as a whole could use some help and should really take the best player available. Now let us hope that their draft board is one for the ages ( in a good way).



Craig

 

[JoeCorrado]

Not me. We need someone who is better at rushing the passer at his position. He can go as far as I'm concerned.

Spencer is better than you give him credit for. As already discussed, he is used as a pass rusher per-se only rarely. And yet he has six sacks. He gets just stuck in coverage or in run support normally.

I would like to upgrade there but with so many needs, a better upgrade option might be at DT and move Rat to DE. Upgrades two starting spots improving the defensive push, causing better matchups and helping Spencer all at the same time.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Spencer is better than you give him credit for. As already discussed, he is used as a pass rusher per-se only rarely. And yet he has six sacks. He gets just stuck in coverage or in run support normally

If so, that's a pants on the head ********.


Let's see ... it's a quarterback driven league, so how can we best attack that? I know, let's lock up every non pass rushing defensive linemen we can who can't sack a quarterback. Marcus Spears and Kenyon Coleman are on the market. They can't rush the quarterback to save their lives, obviously we need to bring them in. Then let's supplement that with a 3-4 scheme where we rarely rush one of our edge outside linebackers. Is the goal here to put as few pass rushers pursuing the QB as possible?

So I guess the goal is to have 2 stiffs at DE who can't rush the pass, a big fat blob of goo at nose tackle who can't rush the passer, and an OLB edge player who can't run the passer ... Then let's gave Eli, Rodgers, Brees and Brady a snuggie, a Forever Lazy and a warm cup of milk before every snap and call it a day.

Sweet Jeebus, I'm so tired of having defensive front 7 players on this roster who do everything but rush the passer (while the Giants and Eagles are stockpiling pass rushers at every opportunity). What a mindnumbingly stupid, stupid, stupid way to assemble and execute a defense for today's NFL.

 

[VACowboy]

I think protecting Romo is more important than fixing the defense. I doubt we see Claiborne or Kirkpatrick at #14 anyway, and in my view, DeCastro is a much better OG than any OLB in this draft is a pass rusher (except for Mercilus, who is a whole nother debate). In my opinion, keeping Romo clean and blowing open holes for Murray and Jones would take the Cowboys' O to another level, a Green Bay/New Orleans/New England-type level that has carried those teams to great succes while they played mediocre defense, at the very best.

Does the defense need fixing? Absolutely. But with the rules the way they are in today's NFL, it's much easier to build a dominating offense than a dominating defense, and plenty of teams have been and are continuing to prove that you can win by dominating on the offensive side of the ball. With a great QB, a good OL and some high quality skill players, you can win at the highest level in the NFL without playing great defense.

The number one playoff seeds in 2012 are #31 and #32 in total defense. New York is #27, New Orleans is #24 and Detroit is #22. Atlanta is #12, two spots higher than Dallas, and San Francisco comes in at #4. For the record, that's four of the six NFC playoff teams in the bottom ten, with Atlanta in the middle and San Fran the only NFC team in the top ten.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Ideally, you'd want to keep Spencer and add an impact DE who can pressure the pocket. In addition, Dallas needs to find an explosive playmaker -- maybe Carter is the guy, who knows -- to play alongside Lee. Do those two things and the front seven is very good.

The bad news is, however, that not everything can be accomplished this off season. As some of you have already point out, the o-line needs to be addressed as well.

 

[Bigtommyb]

The origin of the 3-4 defense, the old high school and college 5-2, had the purpose of being better against the run than the 4-3.

The 3-4 is generally a better run defense, not a better pass rush defense; however, everything depends on personel with either alignment.

The key to pass rushing from the 3-4 is that you're still only rushing 4 guys most of the time; the NT and DE's are rushing, supposedly, and the concept is that the offensive line isn't supposed to know which OLB is coming on any particular play. If they don't know which guy is coming, then they are making adjustments on the fly, and that is an advantage to the defense.

Do you need two DWare's? No. But you need two good pass rushers. It's the same in 4-3; you generally have a speedy pass rush specialist on one end, but even though the other end may be bigger and stronger and more stout to face the TE and run game, he still has to have some impact on pass plays.

So what do we have/had? DWare is such a great pass rusher that he rushes the vast majority of the time; he's pretty darn good in coverage and tackling, but he rushes almost every play. Teams can put their TE on either side they want to get the blocking matchups they prefer for Ware, to get him on the side they prefer. On the other side, we praise the run stuffing skills of Spencer, so he seldom gets called on to rush the passer.

Now, maybe we called on him to rush the passer less and less because he was needed in coverage or because he just wasn't very effective. Often, our front looked more like a four-man front with Spencer in the 3-pt. stance as a lineman with two others, and Ware rushing as a stand-up.

If Ware is going to rush the passer 90 percent of the time or better, then we must get some DL-men who can also win 1-1 matchups and get sacks. If we're going to continue with DL-men who can do little besides occupy space, then we must find another speedy pass rusher for the other OLB spot so that we can 1) get closer to a 60/40 pass rush situation between Ware and him...this may cut down on some Ware sacks but improve the overall defense, or Ware may get just as many sacks easier, and 2) be more effective when sending both OLBs...the blitz.

At #14 in the draft, we need to be open to the best quality of player there when we're on the clock. If a CB is by far the top player, then you nab him at #14, but if there is an OLB guy like the kid the Skins picked up last year and the CB's are in round 2, then use the #1 on OLB. You're not using your #1 to replace a player in FA (Spencer) and feeling like you didn't progress. You are using your #1 to get a quality OLB who can add to your pass rush and make plays, making your defense scary from both sides.

There's no question that Newman must be replaced with a younger, bigger, more physical CB through the draft or FA, but that CB doesn't have to be a top draft pick at #14 unless he deserves that spot. We can upgrade that spot easily in round 1 or 2, not to mention FA.

However, no offense to Ware who gives his all, but part of the reason he disappears at crunch time is because at crunch time, offenses make sure he doesn't beat them...anyone can be blocked or schemed out of the play. We need to be better, faster, nastier up front, both sides and up the middle, and that will help the rest of the secondary do a better job.

Whitney Mercelius from Illinois 6'4 265 college DE as Ware. Guy was a finalists for multiple awards Forced fumble machine, AND sixteen sacks. Check this guy out and get back to me i have and also watched a lil vid in the guy. I like him at 14.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

If so, that's a pants on the head ********.


Let's see ... it's a quarterback driven league, so how can we best attack that? I know, let's lock up every non pass rushing defensive linemen we can who can't sack a quarterback. Marcus Spears and Kenyon Coleman are on the market. They can't rush the quarterback to save their lives, obviously we need to bring them in. Then let's supplement that with a 3-4 scheme where we rarely rush one of our edge outside linebackers. Is the goal here to put as few pass rushers pursuing the QB as possible?

So I guess the goal is to have 2 stiffs at DE who can't rush the pass, a big fat blob of goo at nose tackle who can't rush the passer, and an OLB edge player who can't run the passer ... Then let's gave Eli, Rodgers, Brees and Brady a snuggie, a Forever Lazy and a warm cup of milk before every snap and call it a day.

Sweet Jeebus, I'm so tired of having defensive front 7 players on this roster who do everything but rush the passer (while the Giants and Eagles are stockpiling pass rushers at every opportunity). What a mindnumbingly stupid, stupid, stupid way to assemble and execute a defense for today's NFL.

Preach!!!!!!!!!!

 

[InmanRoshi]

Ideally, you'd want to keep Spencer and add an impact DE who can pressure the pocket. In addition, Dallas needs to find an explosive playmaker -- maybe Carter is the guy, who knows -- to play alongside Lee. Do those two things and the front seven is very good.

The bad news is, however, that not everything can be accomplished this off season. As some of you have already point out, the o-line needs to be addressed as well.

I agree that we desperately need someone who can provide some pass rush at the DE position, but I disagree about keeping Spencer. You simply can not live with a 3-4 OLB who averages 4 sacks a season. I would put pass rush ahead of even OL. We had a QB who had a 102 QB rating this year. How much higher can that go? 105 QB Rating? Meanwhile, we have the opportunity to make Herculian advances in our defense just by adding one other formidable pass rusher.

 

[Dodger]

Spencer is better than you give him credit for. As already discussed, he is used as a pass rusher per-se only rarely. And yet he has six sacks. He gets just stuck in coverage or in run support normally.

I would like to upgrade there but with so many needs, a better upgrade option might be at DT and move Rat to DE. Upgrades two starting spots improving the defensive push, causing better matchups and helping Spencer all at the same time.

I respect your opinion, but we desperately need another pass rusher, and the LOLB position is where that pressure should come from on our defense. That's generally what OLBs do in a 3-4. But hey, if you can find a pass rusher to play DE too, all the better.

 

[NextGenBoys]

Absolutely.

This draft needs to be heavy on offensive and defensive linemen, with OLB's (pass rushers) included in that group.

We rely on two players up front to make plays.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

I agree that we desperately need someone who can provide some pass rush at the DE position, but I disagree about keeping Spencer. You simply can not live with a 3-4 OLB who averages 4 sacks a season. I would put pass rush ahead of even OL. We had a QB who had a 102 QB rating this year. How much higher can that go? 105 QB Rating? Meanwhile, we have the opportunity to make Herculian advances in our defense just by adding one other formidable pass rusher.

I agree with most of you that Spencer is a disappointment. If you look at the big picture, however, is he a bigger disappointment than the DEs who, combined, have less sacks than Ware alone? Spencer has value and I'd rather try and keep if at all possible. A stud DE might make him look better anyway.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I agree with most of you that Spencer is a disappointment. If you look at the big picture, however, is he a bigger disappointment than the DEs who, combined, have less sacks than Ware alone? Spencer has value and I'd rather try and keep if at all possible. A stud DE might make him look better anyway.

IMHO, I might keep Spencer, but I would cascade the entire defense down to make it smaller, faster and more athletic. I'd move Spears down to NT/DT, I'd move Spencer DE and I'd draft a supremely fast OLB who can turn the corner on an OT. If you think you can run on me for a 15 play scoring drive, fine. Give it your best. But I'm not going to let Rodgers/Brees/Eli/Brady all day to throw in the pocket when those are the QBs you have to beat to get to the Superbowl.