What type of defense do we really want?

[kskboys]

Amazing.................you dance around blaming every little thing besides what the real big issue is and thats that these players just suck. lack of talent.

Marinelli is the #1 culprit for that as he was passing on great players because they didnt fit his scheme and telling them to draft raw recruits like Taco and Hill that he thought he could magically coach up. Then you can blame Jerry, then Garrett for wanting some fool like Zeke over Ramsey.

Get ANY DC you want, until the talent gets serious upgrade at all 3 levels, this defense will continue to be bad. Its going to take two more good years of drafting mostly defense and taking Zeke, Jaylon, Cooper money and applying that towards the defense.

Dak is going to have to earn his big contract by playing without a great Oline and without the security of a great RG going forward. Which personally, I am not worried about as he has been doing that for a year and a half already and doing it well.

Yup. To add, Marinate was actually a good on the field coach. His issue is purely the ability to get the right personnel and run the right schemes. He was never able to grasp the fact that a slim build rushmen front would be easily handled by a good OL w/ some power. That idea also got his LB's beat up and led to not only huge rush games by the opponent, but also huge games by the opposing QB as he was all too often able to step up in the pocket to make plays because we were unable to collapse the pocket. Flawed ideas.

I would take Marinate back in a heartbeat specifically as a DL coach. Dude can certainly get guys to play.

 

[kskboys]

Doesn't take a crystal ball to know Watt was better than Taco, that Dallas needed a safety and not a known lazy DT, and not to draft a busted up LB in Smith.

Then why did most draft experts have Taco above Watt?

 

[Cowboyny]

Amazing.................you dance around blaming every little thing besides what the real big issue is and thats that these players just suck. lack of talent.

Marinelli is the #1 culprit for that as he was passing on great players because they didnt fit his scheme and telling them to draft raw recruits like Taco and Hill that he thought he could magically coach up. Then you can blame Jerry, then Garrett for wanting some fool like Zeke over Ramsey.

Get ANY DC you want, until the talent gets serious upgrade at all 3 levels, this defense will continue to be bad. Its going to take two more good years of drafting mostly defense and taking Zeke, Jaylon, Cooper money and applying that towards the defense.

Dak is going to have to earn his big contract by playing without a great Oline and without the security of a great RG going forward. Which personally, I am not worried about as he has been doing that for a year and a half already and doing it well.

No doubt the talent level is average at best, especially at DT and at Safety. What gets unnoticed is how bad this team has drafted on that side of the football. They have drafted well on offense, but their success rate on the other side of the football has been terrible. I only count 4 players who received a 2nd contract by the team, outside of DLaw, the other 3 look like poor decisions; Jaylon, Crawford, Anthony Brown. Have to do a better job in the draft process. What we also have seen is that they give their DC way too much weight in selecting the players. You pay the scouts to evaluate talent, let the coaches coach.

 

[Bullflop]

A defense that limits opponents to around 17 points per game or less, would be ideal.

When it's as generous to opposing offenses, as this one has been, it's clearly absurd.

The defensive line have some quality linemen that are able to effectively plug the run.

The LBs and secondary players should also have the ability to limit the passing game.

 

[Cowboyny]

Give me the blitzing 4-3 like Jim Johnson had in Philly and Spagnuolo has learned from him.

It destroyed any team that had a weak OL as the Cowboys can attest to in the early 2000s. It is the best neutralizer for pocket QBs which Brady admits.

If you’re looking for something that would stop Mahomes, there isn’t.

A DC is only as good as his talent. Spags in his 2nd go around with the Giants was terrible as the talent level was far worse. Those Giant teams were at their best when they could generate a pass rush with their front 4, without the need of a blitz. That so called Nascar package (4 DE's) led them to 2 winning Super Bowls.

 

[calicowboy54]

Over the Marinelli years, all of us often complained that his scheme was far too simplistic. It wasn't opponent specific, not much disguise, success on defense was more execution based. It allowed young prospects to play relatively early in their careers due to the simplicity of the scheme. We are all aware that his scheme was exposed in that Ram playoff loss and was bad ever since. Last season, even the worst starting QB's around the league, were having success against this defense. Change was needed.

This year has been an utter disaster. Shortened off-season didn't help, where the coaches, players, front office deserve to share the blame. Mike Nolan will become the scapegoat, but they need major changes are needed to turn around this unit. Need the right DC that the team believes in, need to allow him to bring in his own staff, so everyone is on the same page, need to bring in scheme specific players. It is utter garbage what MM said, we will draft the best players, not ones who better fit the scheme.

The simplistic scheme Marinelli ran only took us so far, if this team truly wants to become a legit contender, they are going to need a modern, diverse, talented, defense to get them there. If players don't fit, get rid of them, if they aren't smart enough, do the same. This unit is so bad, they can almost start from scratch.

honestly, if you want to run a defense like nolan or fangio your going to need smarter players that are good at reading diagnosis and running to the ball. that is not the current crop of players we have. they have grown accustomed to simple defense. now you ask who i want. i want fangio but you need different players. if you want to move to something that is more simplistic but still disguising what your doing, i’d go with wade phillips.

 

[kskboys]

No doubt the talent level is average at best, especially at DT and at Safety. What gets unnoticed is how bad this team has drafted on that side of the football. They have drafted well on offense, but their success rate on the other side of the football has been terrible. I only count 4 players who received a 2nd contract by the team, outside of DLaw, the other 3 look like poor decisions; Jaylon, Crawford, Anthony Brown. Have to do a better job in the draft process. What we also have seen is that they give their DC way too much weight in selecting the players. You pay the scouts to evaluate talent, let the coaches coach.

That's because Jerry refuses to peruse tape of possible draftees, but insists on being a big part of the decision making process. Honestly, how did he miss the little stuff, such as Bruce Carter lacking instincts, Jaylon being iffy on coming back, Taco being a moron, Lee and LVE being injury prone, Hill being a project, Connor Williams being injury prone, Awuzie lacking long speed, stuff like that. This info is readily available, how does Jerry ignore it?

 

[USArmyVet]

Then why did most draft experts have Taco above Watt?

What 'experts'? Most people said Dallas reached for Taco for the simple reason they wanted a DE and Watt was more an OLB mold but he was rated the better player. At the time, Mike Mayock had TJ Watt ranked #35in terms of prospect rankings and had Taco Charlton ranked #49. CBS Sports had Watt ranked #29 and Taco not in the Top 32 prospects.

 

[Cowboyny]

The last time we had a top D, Wade Phillips was the DC, using the 3-4 scheme. Two years ago the 49ers had one of the best Dlines in the league using the 4-3 scheme. Lately, we've had to read about how good/great the WFT D is, especially the DLine. Then you see the Bucs have turned their D around in less than 3 years. I remember after we lost the playoff game to the Packers almost ten years ago, the first thing Stephen Jones said after to loss, we will fix this during the offseason ........guess what, we're still waiting. My point is, I'm not sure scheme or DC matters that much until Jerry and Stephen value a top defense as much as an offense. It's not hard to see they want the league's BEST offense with defense to get by.
No question Nolan has had his issues and will likely be fired, but let's be honest, this D was a mess before he came. Notice how we tried to cover the Dline issues with a quick fix by signing what 4-5 free agents ( McCoy, Griffen, Poe, Smith ).

So for me, other than getting Dak signed, I'd like to see every cap space dollar AND draft picks invested exclusively in the D over the next two years.

Similar to the response I wrote to cowboyroy, the front office has a very poor track record drafting quality defensive players. Only 1 draft and legitimately earned a 2nd contract by the team in DLaw. Jerry and his family have always been star driven, wants the pass rushers, corners and linebackers, but wants no part of taking a NT, Safety to allow these star players to thrive. Every team needs those lunch paled players to do all the dirty work.

Jerry has given way too much weight to the coaches, how many poor picks did we see Marinelli make, Wade ok'd that special teams draft. Allow the scouts to evaluate the talent, let the coaches coach!!

This yr Jerry ok'd a new defensive scheme, yet they didn't bring any help on the personnel side outside of some aging veterans. The plan was destined to fail from the get go. The front office, MM and his staff are the ones who put this team in a position to fail. Everyone knows they need to upgrade talent on the defense yet they continue to add more and more offensive players. Until this changes, the defense is going to struggle and struggle badly.

 

[Cowboyny]

Nice post and thanks.

You're very right, but the problem is simple....they are trying to run Nolans multi front thing with the players that are used to Marinellis simplicity.

I'm all for something that shows multi looks, but it's going to take a while since they dont sign viable free agents. Probably 2-3 offseasons by which time other holes pop up.

That's the Jones way. Hope that we all hope.

It's a big undertaking, especially with little cap funds, so everything needs to be built via the draft. With their poor track record of drafting defense, it even makes it more challenging.

 

[Cowboyny]

No matter what type defense it still comes down to the players learning and executing the scheme, game plans and plays.
Also need smart players. We have not had too many of them so it seems.

I prefer a 4-3 team that blitzes at the right time. And that does not mean on 3rd down every time. But also need the players with speed to actually get to the QB, not "almost" got there.
Can't have a player like that at every position, but they need more than they have.

It starts up front, the team has neglected to address the DT/NT need for many years. Excellent point about the need of higher IQ players. Perhaps, stop falling in love with athletes and draft good football players!

 

[kskboys]

What 'experts'? Most people said Dallas reached for Taco for the simple reason they wanted a DE and Watt was more an OLB mold but he was rated the better player. At the time, Mike Mayock had TJ Watt ranked #35in terms of prospect rankings and had Taco Charlton ranked #49. CBS Sports had Watt ranked #29 and Taco not in the Top 32 prospects.

I don't pay much attention to TV spewing heads. Mostly not worth listening to.

I wouldn't have taken Taco myself, but we took him where he was rated. It was a stupid pick due to his personality and dumbness, not because Watt was still available. We do agree, just w/ different reasoning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cowboyny]

By drafting players that can contribute. Stop overreaching for players like Taco Charlton, Gregory, Claiborne, etc.... Get players that are ready to go, ready to make plays. No drug problems, no arrest record, no injury history. Just get solid players. Jerry Jones continues to play with his Ant Farm and put his faith in players that barely do anything.

Next, let a legit coordinator take over. Not a retread. Not a "Local guy." Not a promotion within. A different culture.

We need a defense that has some balls. That has Moxi. That wants to smash the opposing offense and destroy them. Not help them up off the field and pat their backside. Mean.

The front office falls too in love with elite athletes, but drafting the best football players.

 

[Cowboyny]

A defense that limits opponents to around 17 points per game or less, would be ideal.

When it's as generous to opposing offenses, as this one has been, it's clearly absurd.

The defensive line have some quality linemen that are able to effectively plug the run.

The LBs and secondary players should also have the ability to limit the passing game.

In the year we lost to the Vikings and Farve, team held all the top offenses that yr to under 20 points. This defense was under Wade. If you remember OL was a disaster that season.

 

[Cowboyny]

That's because Jerry refuses to peruse tape of possible draftees, but insists on being a big part of the decision making process. Honestly, how did he miss the little stuff, such as Bruce Carter lacking instincts, Jaylon being iffy on coming back, Taco being a moron, Lee and LVE being injury prone, Hill being a project, Connor Williams being injury prone, Awuzie lacking long speed, stuff like that. This info is readily available, how does Jerry ignore it?

Couple things I've noticed:

-Team falls too hard for athletes and sparq scores.
-Give the Coaches too much weight to the draft process
-Real poor job of developing players

 

[Cowboyny]

1. Innovative aggressive DC
2. Smart players who love football
3. Great 1T and 3T DT
4. Strong intelligent MLB
5. Very very good FS
6. Very very good RDE
7. Decent/good CB and SS

A consistently great defense is always always built up the middle

Couldn't agree more!

 

[kskboys]

In the year we lost to the Vikings and Farve, team held all the top offenses that yr to under 20 points. This defense was under Wade. If you remember OL was a disaster that season.

Aside from the Giants w/ their 8th ranked O ringing up 30+ on us twice, we really held everyone else down that year.

 

[RonnieT24]

A good defense will do... I'm not particular on scheme or style.. Just get good players and coach 'em up to make plays..

 

[Cowboyny]

Aside from the Giants w/ their 8th ranked O ringing up 30+ on us twice, we really held everyone else down that year.

That season our defense was legitimate, remember that when Spencer came alive down the stretch.

 

[cowboyz]

They drafted byron jones, unfortunately decided to give the money to Zeke and jaylon. It's one thing to miss on draft picks. But how do you miss on your own players