What we should learn from this game

[CowboysExchange]

I didn't say Gronkowski had lost is ability to catch a football, so you haven't made a point. Winning a Super Bowl is about more than the Super Bowl game itself or a TD in that Super Bowl, and there have been guys that caught TD passes in Super Bowls that never had much of a career at all, much less been an essential, can't live without them, element to an entire Super Bowl season.

I know he retired because he was hurt - but not limited to a specific injury, it was because ,his body had been battered from years of playing the game, which further supports the fact he was no longer the elite TE that he had been.

As for your comment about him getting a training camp and putting up 8+TDs and drawing top defenders in 2021, that remains to be seen, but surely you understand how ridiculously illogical it is to suggest that what you believe will happen in the future somehow changes the past. What I said about Gronk's last two season stands - they were not elite level seasons.

Scrub TE narc for Jerry? lol. That comment undermines anything you have to say. It's nonsensical and absent any substance, and a lame attempt at an insult.

Elite players draw top defenders, double and Triple teams.

Gronk has always been elite. Sure he may not have had the regular season stats for those periods you claim but there's more to being elite then production.

Producing and being clutch when it matters most is more important to measuring the Eliteness of a player than all those regular season stats against scrub teams like you suggest.

Gronk was drawing double and triple teams like Kelce and you're saying he wasn't Elite.
He made the Game winning catch drawing a triple team in the Superbowl a couple of years back.

He drew double teams against the Chiefs in this year's Sb.

If our tes are comparable to Gronk how come they are just drawing single coverage?

If Gronk wasn't elite like you say why is he drawing top cover guys, double and triple teams and still scoring and winning games and Superbowls against the best teams in the league?

Can you answer that????

Is it fair to compare Jarwins 3 tds against the Giants in a meaningless game versus Gronks tds in the playoffs and Superbowls?

You're comparing losing production to winning production. Youre comparing a player being blanketed or single coverage against a player that's drawing a top defender and double or triple team in a meaningful game.

Apples to Rotten oranges. You and most of this forum said witten is in the same class as Gronk in the past. He never drew a top defender much less a double or triple team. Lmao.

He was never a Gronk or in the same class because he can't go up and get a ball over the 3 guys covering Gronk. Lmao.

The kc chiefs sure thought he was elite enough to put 2 guys on him and the Rams had 2-3 guys defending him but I guess you know more than them. Js

 

[CowboysExchange]

Let's here how we can win a Superbowl with a te core that can't produce against any good teams again this year .

We had a steak at wr 1, wr 2, and wr 3, and two steaks at rb and qb but still had the worst red zone offense in the League and couldn't even break the 8-8 record and win a sorry division.

If these Tes were elite we'd have won some more games . But like always were gonna settle for Mediocracy at the position and still play them like they are elite.

That's the same recipe for Mediocracy that's plagued us for 20 years. We're gonna have to contend w teams that have a steak at all positions.

Tampa and Kc will be there next year also. Because no defense can force them to beat them w scrubs like Schultz and Jarwin. Js

 

[OmerV]

Elite players draw top defenders, double and Triple teams.

Gronk has always been elite. Sure he may not have had the regular season stats for those periods you claim but there's more to being elite then production.

Producing and being clutch when it matters most is more important to measuring the Eliteness of a player than all those regular season stats against scrub teams like you suggest.

Gronk was drawing double and triple teams like Kelce and you're saying he wasn't Elite.
He made the Game winning catch drawing a triple team in the Superbowl a couple of years back.

He drew double teams against the Chiefs in this year's Sb.

If our tes are comparable to Gronk how come they are just drawing single coverage?

If Gronk wasn't elite like you say why is he drawing top cover guys, double and triple teams and still scoring and winning games and Superbowls against the best teams in the league?

Can you answer that????

Is it fair to compare Jarwins 3 tds against the Giants in a meaningless game versus Gronks tds in the playoffs and Superbowls?

You're comparing losing production to winning production. Youre comparing a player being blanketed or single coverage against a player that's drawing a top defender and double or triple team in a meaningful game.

Apples to Rotten oranges. You and most of this forum said witten is in the same class as Gronk in the past. He never drew a top defender much less a double or triple team. Lmao.

He was never a Gronk or in the same class because he can't go up and get a ball over the 3 guys covering Gronk. Lmao.

The kc chiefs sure thought he was elite enough to put 2 guys on him and the Rams had 2-3 guys defending him but I guess you know more than them. Js

What do you have to show that while Gronk had ordinary season stats his last 2 seasons, the stats he did have were clutch plays? It's easy to just say things like that, but is there anything to base it on other than that's just what you want to believe? How do we know he had any more clutch plays than other TE's with similar stats?

As for Schultz having never been a Gronk type player, yeah … so? I never said he was. Gronk was one of the top TE's in the history of the game in his prime.

What I said is Gronk is no longer at that level, and that having a TE at that level is not the only way to win a Super Bowl.

You instead are acting as if I said Gronk sucks and that an elite TE does not benefit a team.

In the end, for the second consecutive post in this discussion you are arguing things not in dispute and pretending it makes a point, and claiming I said things I didn't. As long as that's how you conduct yourself rational discussion cannot be possible.

 

[CowboysExchange]

What do you have to show that while Gronk had ordinary season stats his last 2 seasons, the stats he did have were clutch plays? It's easy to just say things like that, but is there anything to base it on other than that's just what you want to believe? How do we know he had any more clutch plays than other TE's with similar stats?

As for Schultz having never been a Gronk type player, yeah … so? I never said he was. Gronk was one of the top TE's in the history of the game in his prime.

What I said is Gronk is no longer at that level, and that having a TE at that level is not the only way to win a Super Bowl.

You instead are acting as if I said Gronk sucks and that an elite TE does not benefit a team.

In the end, for the second consecutive post in this discussion you are arguing things not in dispute and pretending it makes a point, and claiming I said things I didn't. As long as that's how you conduct yourself rational discussion cannot be possible.

Gronk may not be as good as he once was. But he is clutch when it matters. He obviously is pretty darn elite or he wouldn't be drawing top defenders and getting doubled and Triple teamed right?

Name me one player drawing top defenders, double and triple teams that isn't elite.

Somebody obviously thought he was elite! Regardless of whether you did or not. And Gronk still took over the game. He beat their tails off in 2 Superbowls.

Is he gonna monster up 15 tds against double and Triple teams like he used to be capable of. Prolly not. Put single coverage on him all year and he'll still put up 10-15 tds And you will see. There isn't anybody in the same class as Gronk. Regardless of the Stats. He's unstoppable and the most dominant te ever to play the game!

Our tes are scrubs. They aren't clutch and certainly not Winners cuz the never won beans by dominating.

When this 4 TD a year te core leads us to a championship with this over involved te scheme pigs will fly. Lmao

 

[CowboysExchange]

He's being double and triple teamed every week and his stats are Lackluster because of that and you say he's not elite. Omg. What are you smoking?

Had he drawn single coverage his whole career like our tes lmao Gronk may have scored 30 tds a year. There's nobody that has ever shut him down one on one EVER!

He was doubled and Triple teamed and in his last 2 Superbowls he still showed just how elite he was.

THEY WENT HOME W TROPHYS AND RINGS BECAUSE OF HIM!

There still isn't anybody that can shut him down individually in single coverage bro.

If that isn't Elite then what is?

 

[CowboysExchange]

Cook and Gronk are free agents once again.

But we'll prolly pick up some deadbeat te like swaim again Rogers because this organization is pretty ignorant at that position. We haven't had a winner at te since Novachek and hung on to witten for 10 years too long. Lol.

 

[OmerV]

Gronk may not be as good as he once was. But he is clutch when it matters. He obviously is pretty darn elite or he wouldn't be drawing top defenders and getting doubled and Triple teamed right?

Name me one player drawing top defenders, double and triple teams that isn't elite.

Somebody obviously thought he was elite! Regardless of whether you did or not. And Gronk still took over the game. He beat their tails off in 2 Superbowls.

Is he gonna monster up 15 tds against double and Triple teams like he used to be capable of. Prolly not. Put single coverage on him all year and he'll still put up 10-15 tds And you will see. There isn't anybody in the same class as Gronk. Regardless of the Stats. He's unstoppable and the most dominant te ever to play the game!

Our tes are scrubs. They aren't clutch and certainly not Winners cuz the never won beans by dominating.

When this 4 TD a year te core leads us to a championship with this over involved te scheme pigs will fly. Lmao

First, your story about Gronk drawinng the top defenders on a team with Chris Goodwin, Mike Evans and Antonio Brown is stale - and false.

Second, I never said Gronk wasn't still a quality player, or that he cannot contribute to a winning team, or that he didn't have an outstanding Super Bowl game, so quit pretending you are making points by arguing things that aren't even in contention.

The point of contention was only your claim that having an elite, Kelce like TE (which Gronk is not at this point in his career) is the only possible way for a team to win a Super Bowl, and both history and logic work against you there.

 

[CowboysExchange]

What do you have to show that while Gronk had ordinary season stats his last 2 seasons, the stats he did have were clutch plays? It's easy to just say things like that, but is there anything to base it on other than that's just what you want to believe? How do we know he had any more clutch plays than other TE's with similar stats?

As for Schultz having never been a Gronk type player, yeah … so? I never said he was. Gronk was one of the top TE's in the history of the game in his prime.

What I said is Gronk is no longer at that level, and that having a TE at that level is not the only way to win a Super Bowl.

You instead are acting as if I said Gronk sucks and that an elite TE does not benefit a team.

In the end, for the second consecutive post in this discussion you are arguing things not in dispute and pretending it makes a point, and claiming I said things I didn't. As long as that's how you conduct yourself rational discussion cannot be possible.

Gronk had 7tds. That's not bad for a guy coming off a year retired w no workouts, camps etc. I betcha a million dollars to a cupcake if he plays every game he'll at least score 10 tds and more than Double or triple our whole te cores td production.

How is playing every passing snap and can't get but 4 tds between 3 guys in blowout games against scrub teams on 3 yard passes when the defender slips Ever been a Championship Strategy? Lmao

In the playoff game against Green bay when Jared Cook caught that beautiful sideline pass from Rogers that won that game could Swaim Jarwin, Schultz, or any cowboy te in 17 years have made that play for 36 yards? Cook was a free agent you said Swaim was serviceable. He had 1 td as a starter for the year . When we coulda had 9-10 tds. I told ya grass to turf would be productive

There are tes out there. Get somebody hungry

Another thing I wanted to point out. Gronk is still a stud blocking te He made alot of clutch blocks in the Superbowl he doesn't get much credit for.




I'll take that over our 3 tes 4 tds

 

[CowboysExchange]

First, your story about Gronk drawinng the top defenders on a team with Chris Goodwin, Mike Evans and Antonio Brown is stale - and false.

Second, I never said Gronk wasn't still a quality player, or that he cannot contribute to a winning team, or that he didn't have an outstanding Super Bowl game, so quit pretending you are making points by arguing things that aren't even in contention.

The point of contention was only your claim that having an elite, Kelce like TE (which Gronk is not at this point in his career) is the only possible way for a team to win a Super Bowl, and both history and logic work against you there.

Jared Cook is available again? Would you pick him up or let him go by twice

 

[OmerV]

Jared Cook is available again? Would you pick him up or let him go by twice

Let's look at this - break it down ....

* Cook is about to be 34 years old.
* Cook has never been the elite player you somehow imagine him to be - his career average is 556 yards and 3.4 TDs per season.
* Signing him would obligate us to another contract to count against the salary cap on top of the ones we are already paying Schultz and Jarwin.
* At most, he would only be an incremental improvement, and it's far from assured he would be that.
* The money could be better used on players and positions where we could make a big improvement (D-Line, Safety)

The caveat is that this depends on Jarwin being healthy so he and Schultz are both available, but if they are then there is no way I would consider Cook

 

[CowboysExchange]

Let's look at this - break it down ....

* Cook is about to be 34 years old.
* Cook has never been the elite player you somehow imagine him to be - his career average is 556 yards and 3.4 TDs per season.
* Signing him would obligate us to another contract to count against the salary cap on top of the ones we are already paying Schultz and Jarwin.
* At most, he would only be an incremental improvement, and it's far from assured he would be that.
* The money could be better used on players and positions where we could make a big improvement (D-Line, Safety)

The caveat is that this depends on Jarwin being healthy so he and Schultz are both available, but if they are then there is no way I would consider Cook

COOK is a Winner at the position on Turf. He wins games because he's a mismatch in Size and Athletism. He is a proven weapon. And he can go up and get a ball over some double teams in the Red zone

He's a deep baller not a checkdown te. He has more skillsets than all of our checkdown tes combined and maybe if we actually had a good te we might improve our lowest ranked, laughing stock of the league red zone offense.

Again your gonna choose a scrub to complete our offense that is totally unproven or a loser on paper and you do it every year.

Pick up a winner and compete for the position. It will make them all better. We need a steak at te if they gonna be in all the critical plays just saying. A good receiving te that can make big plays on occasion is important. Jared Cook can beat alot of Defenders so he'll draw some coverage. Our guys just take what the defense allows. They don't have any big play or scoring capabilities so cut bait w mediocrity

 

[OmerV]

COOK is a Winner at the position on Turf. He wins games because he's a mismatch in Size and Athletism. He is a proven weapon. And he can go up and get a ball over some double teams in the Red zone

He's a deep baller not a checkdown te. He has more skillsets than all of our checkdown tes combined and maybe if we actually had a good te we might improve our lowest ranked, laughing stock of the league red zone offense.

Again your gonna choose a scrub to complete our offense that is totally unproven or a loser on paper and you do it every year.

Pick up a winner and compete for the position. It will make them all better

Sorry, facts don't back that up. Again, let's break it down …

* He hasn't been to the playoffs consistently like you imagine - 3 times in 12 years, and only 1 of those has his team had notable success, and that was 5 seasons ago.

* Regarding all those TD's you are talking about, he is still averaging only 3.4 TDs per season

* There is a whole lot more to playing TE than those rare individual plays where a guy can outjump someone else. I doubt he can outjump Jarwin at this point anyway.

* As for size, he is not a notably large TE. He's no bigger than Jarwin or Schultz.

And, the funny thing is, while you are arguing that a team has to have a truly elite TE to win, you are sitting here promoting a TE that has been a good player over his career, but never an elite one.