What's the big deal about Hatcher?

[JPostSam]

just watched the highlight video of hatcher from woody's girl.

thank you, wg! that was great

...thing is, though, that i just don't see what excited people.

sure, the guy has good size, and some agility. and yes, he shed some blocks.

BUT, if you watch, you'll notice that the best plays he made were when he was unblocked -- or blocked by a running back or a wide receiver. OF COURSE he could show "closing speed" in those situations.

(apropos speed, it seemed to me that the combine figure showed 4.91 in the 40 -- hardly the "4.7-something" that parcells quoted. looked kind of like he was laboring, too. side-to-side he was good, but straight-line was just so-so. in some of those drills you see his fists and knees pumping furiously but his body just isn't moving very fast.)

you also don't see the guy MOVING any blockers. wouldn't you expect to see some more strength?

and for anyone who doubts the legitimacy of the question about his level of competition, just check out those tackles he was up against -- they could hardly move out of their own way, for crying out loud.

(as for the story of him embarrassing people in that mini-camp, keep in mind that he got his share of embarrassment, too. "stonewalled" was the term that came up, if i remember correctly. that is definitely a level-of-competition issue.)

i'm not saying the guy sucks. heck, he seems to have some potential. but that video didn't make hatcher look like anything special. and at that level, he should have looked special.

...well, now i guess i'll get flamed, 'cause it seems like you're SUPPOSED to think we got a steal with hatcher. the truth is, i am a HUGE cowboys fan and i really hope he turns into a leon lett-type player, as some have already said.

so here's hoping that training camp is a different story... but i'd say we need to give him a year or two to catch up -- not the week or two that some people think is all he needs to start tearing up the nfl.

 

[FRDRCK]

well bill obviously saw something in him

 

[Hostile]

This is a portion of a PM I just sent to AdButcher. Ad was a college DL and his analysis of them is one I trust very much. He's got a very good football mind.

Maybe this will explain some of what the Cowboys see. Maybe not. Listen closely to the announcers at the Combine, Hatcher was climbing teams ranks because of his hustle factor.

His ceiling for potential looks very high to me. The best thing I saw is that he plays fast. Not waiting around.

What I saw...the combine footage shows he's an elite athlete. Kid was cut and he had fast twitch muscle control in those drills. He wasn't just a big lug lumbering through the drills, he was exploding through them.

Plays well with his left hand on the ground, good first step. Seems more natural against the pass on the left, more natural against the run on the right. Takes decent angles to the ball carrier but prefers to push his blocker out of the way rather than to push him into the running lanes. I like this because it means not as many over pursuits and will take the time to read screens.

Decent swim move, very good rip move, not a bad bull rush. Didn't notice if he counter punches or punches the blocker, though I suspect he is a counter puncher based on how he sheds them to go after the ball. It appears to me he reads their move before he reacts. You would know this better than I would. Hell, you'll know all of this better than me.

I can definitely see why they saw room for potential and given how cut he looks and how naturally quick he seems I'd say he'll adapt physically very fast. Here's hoping he's as quick mentally.

Anyway, just wondered what you thought.

 

[actual29]

i agree somewhat...
i was on the hatcher bandwagon til i saw the video
i pictured him to b more of a force
(thanks for the vid WG!)

however, w/ that being said
i still do feel that he will develop into a great player in the nfl, jus dont kno if he'll b unstoppable rite away.

if we can work on a few thngs w/ him....i dont see why he cant b the nex Lett.

 

[speedkilz88]

Hatcher's best time at the combine was 4.83

 

[dallasfaniac]

I wrote a large diatribe about how fans in general make assumptions about a player based upon 15 plays but deleted it. It would fall on deaf ears.

Basically, he only played 2 years on defense his entire life. He was a WR prior to that, averaging like 36 yards per catch. He has outstanding measurables and from comments here and there it seems like he just looks natural despite the limited exposure.

I haven't looked at the Highlight Video because they never show the correct plays. Sometimes a player looks better on tape when they aren't the ones making the plays, if that makes any sense. But for highlights they like to target big hits, tackles behing the line of scrimmage, sacks, ints, etc. which don't necessarily show the heart and motor of a player.

 

[gimmesix]

(apropos speed, it seemed to me that the combine figure showed 4.91 in the 40 -- hardly the "4.7-something" that parcells quoted.

I could be wrong, but I thought the 4.7-something 40 Hatcher ran was at the rookie minicamp.

 

[AdamJT13]

I could be wrong, but I thought the 4.7-something 40 Hatcher ran was at the rookie minicamp.

Parcells implied that Hatcher ran that before the draft, so it could have been in a private workout.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I haven't looked at the Highlight Video because they never show the correct plays. Sometimes a player looks better on tape when they aren't the ones making the plays, if that makes any sense. But for highlights they like to target big hits, tackles behing the line of scrimmage, sacks, ints, etc. which don't necessarily show the heart and motor of a player.

I agree. Naturally, highlight packages are going to show things like missed blocks where the player can get a good shot at the ballcarrier... But that isn't the player's fault. You can bet that Ireland and Parcells saw plenty of those other plays you're talking about where Hatcher stacks things up on 3rd and 2, even if he doesn't make a "pretty" tackle fit for a fan highlight reel.

I think fans might be let down if they expect Hatcher to do a lot immediately, because he will need development both technically and strength-wise. But I see nothing wrong with getting excited about him as a prospect that has the physical ability to be very good down the road.

 

[theogt]

I think fans might be let down if they expect Hatcher to do a lot immediately, because he will need development both technically and strength-wise. But I see nothing wrong with getting excited about him as a prospect that has the physical ability to be very good down the road.

Agreed. He's not going to make an immediate impact. No one should think he will. However, in 2-3 years he'll be a force. The one thing those clips excited me about was his physical talent. He's very very fast and agile for a guy his size.

On the other hand, I'd have to see how he fares among pros because he looked like a grown man in a junior high football practice in those clips. Maybe that's because everyone else sucked or maybe that was because he was just that good. Either way, I'm not sure how anyone wouldn't be excited about the guy after watching the clips. For the most part they weren't "highlight reels" but rather just game clips where he made the tackle. Maybe people were expecting a "highlight reel". To me, those clips were closer to the actual video teams use to analyze players.

 

[The Answer]

just watched the highlight video of hatcher from woody's girl.

thank you, wg! that was great

...thing is, though, that i just don't see what excited people.

sure, the guy has good size, and some agility. and yes, he shed some blocks.

BUT, if you watch, you'll notice that the best plays he made were when he was unblocked -- or blocked by a running back or a wide receiver. OF COURSE he could show "closing speed" in those situations.

(apropos speed, it seemed to me that the combine figure showed 4.91 in the 40 -- hardly the "4.7-something" that parcells quoted. looked kind of like he was laboring, too. side-to-side he was good, but straight-line was just so-so. in some of those drills you see his fists and knees pumping furiously but his body just isn't moving very fast.)

you also don't see the guy MOVING any blockers. wouldn't you expect to see some more strength?

and for anyone who doubts the legitimacy of the question about his level of competition, just check out those tackles he was up against -- they could hardly move out of their own way, for crying out loud.

(as for the story of him embarrassing people in that mini-camp, keep in mind that he got his share of embarrassment, too. "stonewalled" was the term that came up, if i remember correctly. that is definitely a level-of-competition issue.)

i'm not saying the guy sucks. heck, he seems to have some potential. but that video didn't make hatcher look like anything special. and at that level, he should have looked special.

...well, now i guess i'll get flamed, 'cause it seems like you're SUPPOSED to think we got a steal with hatcher. the truth is, i am a HUGE cowboys fan and i really hope he turns into a leon lett-type player, as some have already said.

so here's hoping that training camp is a different story... but i'd say we need to give him a year or two to catch up -- not the week or two that some people think is all he needs to start tearing up the nfl.

A lot of people have knocked this move, but The Answer had Hatcher graded as a 2nd to 3rd round prospect all along. Some see Hatcher as a defensive tackle because he lacks speed and explosiveness, but he will make a great DE after after a few years of development.

Hatcher is what you call a 'tweener' similar to what many scouts had Manny Lawson pegged for. Is he a linebacker or DE? Since we are a 3-4 team he will fit in perfectly to our complex defensive scheme as a DE. This move will look like pure genious in a few years....kudos once again to our fine scouting department!

~The Answer

 

[theogt]

A lot of people have knocked this move, but The Answer had Hatcher graded as a 2nd to 3rd round prospect all along. Some see Hatcher as a defensive tackle because he lacks speed and explosiveness, but he will make a great DE after after a few years of development.

Hatcher is what you call a 'tweener' similar to what many scouts had Manny Lawson pegged for. Is he a linebacker or DE? Since we are a 3-4 team he will fit in perfectly to our complex defensive scheme as a DE. This move will look like pure genious in a few years....kudos once again to our fine scouting department!

~The Answer

Uh...no one at all considers him a 'tweener'. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[speedkilz88]

There is not one team in the nfl that thought Hatcher was a LB. A 4-3 team would probably look at him as a DT while a 3-4 as an end, which describes most of the ends on the Cowboys roster.

 

[The Answer]

Uh...no one at all considers him a 'tweener'. What the hell are you talking about?

I've seen a few scouting reports that have considered him a 'tweener' in the sense that he could project as a LB, DT, but most likely a DE....that's all I was referring too.

~The Answer

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A lot of people have knocked this move, but The Answer had Hatcher graded as a 2nd to 3rd round prospect all along. Some see Hatcher as a defensive tackle because he lacks speed and explosiveness, but he will make a great DE after after a few years of development.

Hatcher is what you call a 'tweener' similar to what many scouts had Manny Lawson pegged for. Is he a linebacker or DE? Since we are a 3-4 team he will fit in perfectly to our complex defensive scheme as a DE. This move will look like pure genious in a few years....kudos once again to our fine scouting department!

~The Answer

i dont disagree with you but must you refer to yourself in third person?

 

[theogt]

I've seen a few scouting reports that have considered him a 'tweener' in the sense that he could project as a LB, DT, but most likely a DE....that's all I was referring too.

~The Answer

With all due respect, anyone who considers Hatcher to be a possible LB in any scheme is friggin' brainless.

 

[theogt]

i dont disagree with you but must you refer to yourself in third person?

I'm 99.9999998% positive that this is 100% schtick.

 

[big dog cowboy]

i dont disagree with you but must you refer to yourself in third person?

THE ANSWER to that question is yes.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I've seen a few scouting reports that have considered him a 'tweener' in the sense that he could project as a LB, DT, but most likely a DE....that's all I was referring too.

~The Answer

I haven't read a thing projecting him at linebacker. How does one project to possibly LB, DT, or DE? Seriously, I could be wrong, but I'd think you'd need different measurables to fit at least two of the three. I imagine there's no way a person can have the measurables for both DT and LB. LB/DE or DT/DE, but not DT-LB.

If you could post that scouting report suggesting that, I'd love to read it.

 

[BlueStar II]

I have a feeling that Hatcher was viewed as more of a year or two away player, and not necessarily one who is going to have a big impact right away. That's just my two cents worth anyway.