What's yoru take on Su'a Cravens?

samilpa4life

Active Member
Messages
171
Reaction score
230
what is your take on him?? I think he could be like Darren Woodson was coming out of college, a tweener between linebacker and safety. I would consider him in the 3rd if he is available.

Overview
Cravens' extended family has several NFL ties, including cousin Jordan Cameron (former USC and current Miami Dolphins tight end), distant cousin Manti Te'o (Notre Dame/San Diego Chargers linebacker) and his mother's second cousin David Fulcher (former Arizona State and Cincinnati Bengals safety). While those genes portend great athleticism, Cravens made his own name as the USA Today National High School Defensive Player of the Year in 2012 (97 tackles, eight sacks, three INT). He graduated from Vista Murrieta High a semester early to join USC for 2013, securing a starting spot at strong safety the following fall despite injuring his knee in the spring. Cravens made various Freshman All-American teams as well as honorable mention All-Pac-12 notice (52 tackles, four interceptions). He moved to a safety/linebacker hybrid role as a sophomore (a change he strongly resisted at first), leading the team with 17 tackles for loss (five sacks) and three interceptions to earn third team AP All-American and first-team All-Pac-12 accolades. Cravens repeated those honors in 2015, topping all Trojan defenders with 86 tackles, 15 for loss, and 5.5 sacks and once again showing his overall game by intercepting two passes and breaking up two others.


Pro Day Results

40-yard dash: 4.69 seconds
Vertical: 30 1/2 inches
Short shuttle: 4.41 seconds
3-cone: 6.92 seconds
Analysis
Strengths
Born to be a football player. Combines smarts, instincts and toughness. Will not hesitate to jump into the mix and have proven his ability to make full-time conversion to linebacker. Outstanding with his hands. Always first with his punch into blocker's frame and unlocks instant arm extension to keep himself clean. Showed ability to engage blocker, shuffle with square pads and disengage for the tackle. Scouts believe he will comfortably carry over 230 pounds in pros. Big boy production comes from always choosing play-making option over passive route. Loves to play on the other side of the line when possible. Sticky hands and can take the ball away if you give him a shot. Posted nine interceptions in three years. Aware in zone coverage, but has some blitz value. Will have immediate impact on special teams coverage.
Weaknesses
Small for an NFL linebacker spot. Lack of length to consistently pull himself around the corner against edge blocks. Former safety who is still learning nuances of the position. Will take time to adjust to NFL power at the point of attack. Will get hooked inside and lose contain. Not as twitched up and fast as expected. Will get engulfed if he doesn't win early with hands. Unable to maintain feel for the target in his trail technique in man coverage. More likely to maul and grab over trusting technique in coverage. Willing to dive and miss rather than working for a higher percentage tackle.
Draft Projection
Rounds 2 or 3
Sources Tell Us
"He's a lot of fun to watch because he processes quickly like an NFL linebacker and then just fires into the play. I've never really cared about the size at the WILL, I just want to know if they have instincts and can run and make plays. That's it. He can do that." -- Former NFL general manager
NFL Comparison
Lavonte David
Bottom Line
Plays with a unique lens that includes his time at the safety position as a freshman. Teams focusing on putting a "tweener" label on him could be making a huge mistake considering his competitive nature and toughness. Cravens was highly disruptive and productive in each of his three seasons as a starter thanks to his tools/traits to act on his instincts. Cravens will help on special teams immediately and could become an early starter for a 4-3 defense looking for a playmaking weak-side linebacker.
 

texbumthelife

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
23,273
I think Cravens is one of the most exciting players in the draft. I think he would fit the mold of a SS in this defense perfectly. He is a ball-hawk with tremendous instincts.

He will not, however, be available in the third. Many mocks have him going in the first.
 

darthseinfeld

Groupthink Guru
Messages
33,540
Reaction score
38,178
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
I think Cravens is one of the most exciting players in the draft. I think he would fit the mold of a SS in this defense perfectly. He is a ball-hawk with tremendous instincts.

He will not, however, be available in the third. Many mocks have him going in the first.

He is a favorite of mine. Wish we showed more interest. I think he can payba role similar to Buchanan but is a better Safety
 

stilltheguru88

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
6,243
Hes overrated as hell. No thanks. Slow and not as physical as his fans claim he is.
 

jujoboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,839
Reaction score
3,229
My concern would be his speed. When compared to players with similar size he is very slow. Su'a Cravens, Darron Lee, and Deion Jones are all about the same height and weight. Their 40 times are as follows Cravens 4.69, Lee 4.47, and Jones 4.38. Their vertical numbers are as follows Cravens 30.5 in, Lee 35.5 in, and Jones 35.5 in. Seems like Su'a lacks explosion and athleticism. Jimmy Johnson stated that speed kills and Su'a just does not appear to have speed.
 

JohnnyHopkins

This is a house of learned doctors
Messages
11,302
Reaction score
3,610
No knock on Sua, but Woodson was clocked as low as a 4.38 40 coming out of college. Sua could end up being good, but I'm not sure he will be Darren Woodson great.
 

texbumthelife

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
23,273
He is a favorite of mine. Wish we showed more interest. I think he can payba role similar to Buchanan but is a better Safety

There have been several threads here where his merits have been debated. I think he is superior to Buchanan in every facet of the game. I think you're really wasting a lot of his talent however if you ask him to play LB. I think his best fit is as a SS in a single high look. Obviously he has more versatility than just that and he may be a great nickel guy, but that's where I see his highest value.
 

texbumthelife

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
23,273
No knock on Sua, but Woodson was clocked as low as a 4.38 40 coming out of college. Sua could end up being good, but I'm not sure he will be Darren Woodson great.

Darren Woodson's greatness had nothing to do with his speed. That was just the icing on the cake. Woodson had incredible instincts and was an absolute student of the game. Cravens shows similar instincts, but I don't know how much of a student he is. I don't think the Woodson comparison is unfounded.
 

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
My concern would be his speed. When compared to players with similar size he is very slow. Su'a Cravens, Darron Lee, and Deion Jones are all about the same height and weight. Their 40 times are as follows Cravens 4.69, Lee 4.47, and Jones 4.38. Their vertical numbers are as follows Cravens 30.5 in, Lee 35.5 in, and Jones 35.5 in. Seems like Su'a lacks explosion and athleticism. Jimmy Johnson stated that speed kills and Su'a just does not appear to have speed.

Myles Jack at 6-0 240 has a 40 vert and 4.5 40 and this is just coming off a leg injury. Should be more more impressive when 100%.
 

JohnnyHopkins

This is a house of learned doctors
Messages
11,302
Reaction score
3,610
Darren Woodson's greatness had nothing to do with his speed. That was just the icing on the cake. Woodson had incredible instincts and was an absolute student of the game. Cravens shows similar instincts, but I don't know how much of a student he is. I don't think the Woodson comparison is unfounded.

To be completely annoying, I will start by throwing out the obvious jab that Woodson would have completely failed as an NFL safety if he ran a 6.0 40. :)

Getting that out of my system, I should probably have clarified my earlier statement because I do agree that Woodson achieved his level of greatness due to his mental ability. From what I have read about Sua Cravens, he has many of the same attributes mentally coming out of college that Woodson had. When I made the speed remark, it was because the speed difference is the one thing that would set them apart. "Fingertip deflections" made by Woodson would turn into "missed by a fingertip" plays by Cravens. Those amazing plays are what would set all time great apart from good. Nothing wrong with good. Better than what Dallas has had back there.
 

texbumthelife

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
23,273
To be completely annoying, I will start by throwing out the obvious jab that Woodson would have completely failed as an NFL safety if he ran a 6.0 40. :)

Getting that out of my system, I should probably have clarified my earlier statement because I do agree that Woodson achieved his level of greatness due to his mental ability. From what I have read about Sua Cravens, he has many of the same attributes mentally coming out of college that Woodson had. When I made the speed remark, it was because the speed difference is the one thing that would set them apart. "Fingertip deflections" made by Woodson would turn into "missed by a fingertip" plays by Cravens. Those amazing plays are what would set all time great apart from good. Nothing wrong with good. Better than what Dallas has had back there.

I get what you're saying. I didn't mean to say speed has no effect, just that it wasn't what made Woodson a great player, nor is it what separates him from Cravens.

That said, Cravens has incredible TFL and T numbers for a safety, to go along with turnover numbers. He clearly has the instincts and a nose for the ball. It would be my dream scenario to get him in the second, but I don't think there is any chance.
 

texbumthelife

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
23,273
Myles Jack at 6-0 240 has a 40 vert and 4.5 40 and this is just coming off a leg injury. Should be more more impressive when 100%.

He still hasn't run a 40 since the injury. Not sure where you're getting your info.
 

btcutter

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,309
Reaction score
2,584
No knock on Sua, but Woodson was clocked as low as a 4.38 40 coming out of college. Sua could end up being good, but I'm not sure he will be Darren Woodson great.

Pretty much no chance of that...like Woodson.

The one thing that I care about is something that cannot be measured which is DESIRE. How much does he want IT? Or else he'll be a lesser version of Roy Williams.
 

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
He still hasn't run a 40 since the injury. Not sure where you're getting your info.

Jack has run sub 4.5 in the past. He is only 7 months removed from knee surgery and his knee checked out. The time bomb crap is PR garbage trying to lower his value.

Even without the injury, your dislike for Jack is well documented. Gurley didn't run all tests either before being drafted, did not stop him from a pro bowl season. Jack is that kind of talent.
 

texbumthelife

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,738
Reaction score
23,273
Jack has run sub 4.5 in the past. He is only 7 months removed from knee surgery and his knee checked out. The time bomb crap is PR garbage trying to lower his value.

Even without the injury, your dislike for Jack is well documented. Gurley didn't run all tests either before being drafted, did not stop him from a pro bowl season. Jack is that kind of talent.

You said:

Myles Jack at 6-0 240 has a 40 vert and 4.5 40 and this is just coming off a leg injury

You're saying he ran a 4.5 after the injury. So I ask again, where did you get that information? This has nothing to do with what Gurley did or Jack might do. I just want to know where you got that info, or clarification that you made it up.

Also, I don't dislike Jack. I have said since day one I think he has tremendous talent and I would be ok with selecting him.
 

BAT

Mr. Fixit
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
15,607
You said:



You're saying he ran a 4.5 after the injury. So I ask again, where did you get that information? This has nothing to do with what Gurley did or Jack might do. I just want to know where you got that info, or clarification that you made it up.

Also, I don't dislike Jack. I have said since day one I think he has tremendous talent and I would be ok with selecting him.

I misspoke, the "after injury" should have been after the 40 vert and 10-4 broad (which was left off inadvertently as well). It was not my intent to "make something up", I think my posting history gives me some benefit of doubt.

But doubting Jacks abilities is what you do even with caveat that you would have no problem if he was the pick. Jack was easily one of the fastest defensive players in this draft and if he is 100% then he will continue to play to that speed.

But getting back to Su'a Cravens, I would love this player in the 3rd. 40 times should only emphasize what is produced on field and not other way around. Game speed is more than just short shuttle or 40 times. Play recognition, lateral burst, arm extension/punch and angles are just as important factors in determining game speed.
 
Top