Where do our offensive skill players rate?

[sonnyboy]

Answering a question in another thread got my wheels turning.

How good are our offensive skill players? It so easy to get tunnel vision on your own team and forget to look at them in comparison to other teams.

So before the question, let me remove a few variables with some ground rules:
1) They stay relatively healthy. 1-2 player games missed for the group all year.
2) Dez gets it.
3) No mixing and matching, you get the group as a whole.

So the question is how many teams skill players' rate higher than ours as a group? Romo, Murray/Jones, Vickers, Austin, Bryant and Witten.

Once you've established that. The next question is how well does our OL have to rate 1-32, for the offense as a whole to finish top 5 in scoring.

 

[DFWJC]

I think we saw from some of the recent RB threads that opinions vary pretty strongly regarding Cowboy talent vs any other team. It's totally subjective.

Here are some that are at least in the conversation:
Green Bay
New York Giants
Atlanta
New Orleans
Philly

I'm not sure any can separate from us though.

I'd have to look more closely at our Oline...plus it's hard to rate the new guys without having seen them play in our offense.
I assume we are middle of the pack.

If that's so, then this team has a real good chance of challenging for top 5 offense.
There is the chance that they are still well below average, and that makes top 5 out of the question.

 

[perrykemp]

I'll give Packers - Cowboys comparison a shot:

QB - Packers (Romo is great, Rodgers is better)
WR1 - Packers (Assuming Austin vs Jennings)
WR2 - Cowboys (Dez vs Jordy Nelson -- close call but I'll go with Dez)
WR3 - Packers (James Jones vs who?)
WR4 - Packers (Donald Driver vs who?)
WR5 - Packers (Randall Cobb vs who?)
RB1 - Cowboys (Murray vs Starks)
RB2 - Cowboys (Felix Jones vs who?)
FB - Packers (Kuhn over Vickers although Vickers is a better blocker)
TE1 - Cowboys (Witten vs Finley)
TE2 - Tossup (Phillips vs one of 4 Packers backup TEs I can't sort out)

The adds up to:

Packers 6, Cowboys 4, Tossup 1

It's pretty close. The Packers depth at WR is tops in the league and much better than the Cowboys. Counterpoint to that is James Starks wouldn't be anything better than the #3 RB on the Cowboys.

Some (maybe many) might argue Jordy Nelson over Dez Bryant, however, I am going to go out on a limb and predict Bryant finally breaks out and has a monster year.

 

[DFWJC]

I'll give Packers - Cowboys comparison a shot:

QB - Packers (Romo is great, Rodgers is better)
WR1 - Packers (Assuming Austin vs Jennings)
WR2 - Cowboys (Dez vs Jordy Nelson -- close call but I'll go with Dez)
WR3 - Packers (James Jones vs who?)
WR4 - Packers (Donald Driver vs who?)
WR5 - Packers (Randall Cobb vs who?)
RB1 - Cowboys (Murray vs Starks)
RB2 - Cowboys (Felix Jones vs who?)
FB - Packers (Kuhn over Vickers although Vickers is a better blocker)
TE1 - Cowboys (Witten vs Finley)
TE2 - Tossup (Phillips vs one of 4 Packers backup TEs I can't sort out)

The adds up to:

Packers 6, Cowboys 4, Tossup 1

It's pretty close. The Packers depth at WR is tops in the league and much better than the Cowboys. Counterpoint to that is James Starks wouldn't be anything better than the #3 RB on the Cowboys.

Some (maybe many) might argue Jordy Nelson over Dez Bryant, however, I am going to go out on a limb and predict Bryant finally breaks out and has a monster year.

So WR 4, WR5, TE2 counts the same as WR 1 and WR2 and TE 1? Hmmm
Maybe include QB2 then? By your scoring it would still be 6-5-1.

It's not bad though.
GB is the team I'd say is at the top too, but it's good to see that it could be debated.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I'll give Packers - Cowboys comparison a shot:

QB - Packers (Romo is great, Rodgers is better)
WR1 - Packers (Assuming Austin vs Jennings)
WR2 - Cowboys (Dez vs Jordy Nelson -- close call but I'll go with Dez)
WR3 - Packers (James Jones vs who?)
WR4 - Packers (Donald Driver vs who?)
WR5 - Packers (Randall Cobb vs who?)
RB1 - Cowboys (Murray vs Starks)
RB2 - Cowboys (Felix Jones vs who?)
FB - Packers (Kuhn over Vickers although Vickers is a better blocker)
TE1 - Cowboys (Witten vs Finley)
TE2 - Tossup (Phillips vs one of 4 Packers backup TEs I can't sort out)

The adds up to:

Packers 6, Cowboys 4, Tossup 1

It's pretty close. The Packers depth at WR is tops in the league and much better than the Cowboys. Counterpoint to that is James Starks wouldn't be anything better than the #3 RB on the Cowboys.

Some (maybe many) might argue Jordy Nelson over Dez Bryant, however, I am going to go out on a limb and predict Bryant finally breaks out and has a monster year.

Dez vs Jordy Nelson a close call?

You're high bro.

 

[cowboy_ron]

I'll give Packers - Cowboys comparison a shot:

QB - Packers (Romo is great, Rodgers is better)
WR1 - Packers (Assuming Austin vs Jennings)
WR2 - Cowboys (Dez vs Jordy Nelson -- close call but I'll go with Dez)
WR3 - Packers (James Jones vs who?)
WR4 - Packers (Donald Driver vs who?)
WR5 - Packers (Randall Cobb vs who?)
RB1 - Cowboys (Murray vs Starks)
RB2 - Cowboys (Felix Jones vs who?)
FB - Packers (Kuhn over Vickers although Vickers is a better blocker)
TE1 - Cowboys (Witten vs Finley)
TE2 - Tossup (Phillips vs one of 4 Packers backup TEs I can't sort out)

The adds up to:

Packers 6, Cowboys 4, Tossup 1

It's pretty close. The Packers depth at WR is tops in the league and much better than the Cowboys. Counterpoint to that is James Starks wouldn't be anything better than the #3 RB on the Cowboys.

Some (maybe many) might argue Jordy Nelson over Dez Bryant, however, I am going to go out on a limb and predict Bryant finally breaks out and has a monster year.

Vastly overrating the Packs WR's...and most likely FB too

 

[sonnyboy]

I'll give Packers - Cowboys comparison a shot:

QB - Packers (Romo is great, Rodgers is better)
WR1 - Packers (Assuming Austin vs Jennings)
WR2 - Cowboys (Dez vs Jordy Nelson -- close call but I'll go with Dez)
WR3 - Packers (James Jones vs who?)
WR4 - Packers (Donald Driver vs who?)
WR5 - Packers (Randall Cobb vs who?)
RB1 - Cowboys (Murray vs Starks)
RB2 - Cowboys (Felix Jones vs who?)
FB - Packers (Kuhn over Vickers although Vickers is a better blocker)
TE1 - Cowboys (Witten vs Finley)
TE2 - Tossup (Phillips vs one of 4 Packers backup TEs I can't sort out)

The adds up to:

Packers 6, Cowboys 4, Tossup 1

It's pretty close. The Packers depth at WR is tops in the league and much better than the Cowboys. Counterpoint to that is James Starks wouldn't be anything better than the #3 RB on the Cowboys.

Some (maybe many) might argue Jordy Nelson over Dez Bryant, however, I am going to go out on a limb and predict Bryant finally breaks out and has a monster year.

Thanks for the response. I was looking to go with just the starters but you do make good point. 3WR is key and for us, as is the case with most teams, FB is not really a starter. Although I do expect ours to see more snaps than most teams' FB.

Maybe it should list like this for the best comparision:

QB Romo
RB Murray/Jones.........................This is one starting position and should be graded/compared that way since you'll seldom if ever have 2 RBs on the field.
WR1 Austin
WR2 Bryant
TE1 Witten
FB/WR3/TE2 Vickers/?????/Philips......This also should be graded as one starting spot since it's situational substitution deal.

 

[austintodallas]

Dez vs Jordy Nelson a close call?

You're high bro.

I agree. Nelson is better.

 

[TheFinisher]

Steelers- Wallace, Brown, Miller, Mendenhall
Texans- Johnson, Foster, Daniels, Tate
Chiefs- Bowe, Charles, Breaston, McCluster, Moeaki, Baldwin
Giants- Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Bradshaw, Wilson
Eagles- McCoy, Jackson, Maclin, Celek, Avant
Bears- Marshall, Forte, Jeffery, Hester, Knox, Bennett, Bush
Lions- Johnson, Pettigrew, Burleson, Young, Broyles
Packers- Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Jones, Cobb
Falcons- White, Turner, Jones, Gonzalez
Saints- Graham, Sproles, Colston, Moore, Ingram, Thomas, Henderson
Cardinals- Fitzgerald, Floyd, Wells, Williams, Doucet,
Cowboys- Dez, Miles, Witten, Murray, Jones

These are the most talented skill position groups in the NFL IMO. I'd say Dallas fits in somewhere in the middle. We don't have as much talent at the top as some of these teams, but we have a deeper group of playmakers than most teams outside of GB and NO.

I'd probably rank overall as:

1. Packers
2. Falcons
3. Saints
4. Bears
5. Eagles
6. Steelers
7. Lions
8. Giants
9. Cowboys
10. Texans
11. Cardinals
12. Chiefs

If Dez takes the next step this year, Murray stays healthy and runs like the guy we saw in the SEA/BUF/STL games, we could move up some.

 

[Typhus]

M.A. is the first since K-Mart.. Crayton filled a very long gap,, but the position never upgraded during that time period, until now, and just my opinion of course, but I truly believe that it is harder to find that dynamic slot WR, than it is to find a bookend wide.

Not just a 3rd WR, but a true slot in the mold of a Percy Harvin type, even though he has been forced to run wide from the situation at the position in Minn, Percy, by far, is the most talented, just coming onto is prime, proto-type slot receiver in the league, he just screwed being in Minn. Being utilized outside of were he truly could become elite.

Harvin, Welker, (Austin?)... I wouldnt be at all surprised if MA, was right with this grouping if he is able to remain inside, he just is more suited physically to be an elite slot WR more so than a true wide.

Like a RB with a WR skill set, MA is the closest WR in the league to a Percy Harvin, both with a tweener body type, that can exploit open space and chew up Y.A.C. stats.

I would expect to be pursuing a vet WR as rosters get trimmed.

http://clubcowboys.proboards.com
​

 

[SportsGuru80]

Dallas just needs to be good in 2012!

 

[DFWJC]

Steelers- Wallace, Brown, Miller, Mendenhall
Texans- Johnson, Foster, Daniels, Tate
Chiefs- Bowe, Charles, Breaston, McCluster, Moeaki, Baldwin
Giants- Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Bradshaw, Wilson
Eagles- McCoy, Jackson, Maclin, Celek, Avant
Bears- Marshall, Forte, Jeffery, Hester, Knox, Bennett, Bush
Lions- Johnson, Pettigrew, Burleson, Young, Broyles
Packers- Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Jones, Cobb
Falcons- White, Turner, Jones, Gonzalez
Saints- Graham, Sproles, Colston, Moore, Ingram, Thomas, Henderson
Cardinals- Fitzgerald, Floyd, Wells, Williams, Doucet,
Cowboys- Dez, Miles, Witten, Murray, Jones

These are the most talented skill position groups in the NFL IMO. I'd say Dallas fits in somewhere in the middle. We don't have as much talent at the top as some of these teams, but we have a deeper group of playmakers than most teams outside of GB and NO.

I'd probably rank overall as:

1. Packers
2. Falcons
3. Saints
4. Bears
5. Eagles
6. Steelers
7. Lions
8. Giants
9. Cowboys
10. Texans
11. Cardinals
12. Chiefs

If Dez takes the next step this year, Murray stays healthy and runs like the guy we saw in the SEA/BUF/STL games, we could move up some.

You left the most improtant position by far off your list.

I'd say you overrate the Bear, but Cutler does have reason to be excited given they added Marshall and the rookie.

 

[DFWJC]

I agree. Nelson is better.

He certainly had by FAR the better season last year.

I'd love to see Dez get 1250 yards and 15 TDs. That's sick.

 

[perrykemp]

Dez vs Jordy Nelson a close call?

You're high bro.

I think Dez's ceiling is higher that Jordy Nelsons - however, Nelson emerged in the Superbowl two years ago with 170 Yards receiving and last year totally exploded with 1250+ yards and 15 TDs. I believe I read somewhere Rodger's QB rating when throwing to Nelson was 158.3.

Having said that, I think Dez can be better than Nelson is he fulfills his potential.

 

[perrykemp]

Vastly overrating the Packs WR's...and most likely FB too

Ron - I think the Packers are pretty universally considered to have the top WR corps (One through Five) in the league.

I do, however, think there is a strong argument that the Cowboys #1WR, #2WR, and #1TE are better than the Packers.

Where the Packers are clearly better on paper is #3WR,#4WR, and #5WR who had 1400+ yards and 14 TDs last season.

Their #5 WR, Randall Cobb, is considered a break-out player.

 

[cowboy_ron]

Ron - I think the Packers are pretty universally considered to have the top WR corps (One through Five) in the league.

I do, however, think there is a strong argument that the Cowboys #1WR, #2WR, and #1TE are better than the Packers.

Where the Packers are clearly better on paper is #3WR,#4WR, and #5WR who had 1400+ yards and 14 TDs last season.

Their #5 WR, Randall Cobb, is considered a break-out player.

I see what you're saying..and until we see in TC who is going to step up they will look better on paper...this will be a nice battle to watch in TC.

It would not surprise me at all to see Miles, Dez, Holmes, Coale and Beasley on the roster with Radway on the PS, although he don't seem to be getting the attention from the coaches as he did last year before he got hurt.

 

[sonnyboy]

Steelers- Wallace, Brown, Miller, Mendenhall
Texans- Johnson, Foster, Daniels, Tate
Chiefs- Bowe, Charles, Breaston, McCluster, Moeaki, Baldwin
Giants- Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Bradshaw, Wilson
Eagles- McCoy, Jackson, Maclin, Celek, Avant
Bears- Marshall, Forte, Jeffery, Hester, Knox, Bennett, Bush
Lions- Johnson, Pettigrew, Burleson, Young, Broyles
Packers- Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Jones, Cobb
Falcons- White, Turner, Jones, Gonzalez
Saints- Graham, Sproles, Colston, Moore, Ingram, Thomas, Henderson
Cardinals- Fitzgerald, Floyd, Wells, Williams, Doucet,
Cowboys- Dez, Miles, Witten, Murray, Jones

These are the most talented skill position groups in the NFL IMO. I'd say Dallas fits in somewhere in the middle. We don't have as much talent at the top as some of these teams, but we have a deeper group of playmakers than most teams outside of GB and NO.

I'd probably rank overall as:

1. Packers
2. Falcons
3. Saints
4. Bears
5. Eagles
6. Steelers
7. Lions
8. Giants
9. Cowboys
10. Texans
11. Cardinals
12. Chiefs

If Dez takes the next step this year, Murray stays healthy and runs like the guy we saw in the SEA/BUF/STL games, we could move up some.

You forgot QB! The idea here is to rate the offensive players outside of the OL.

QB___________Romo
RB___________Murray/Jones
WR1_________Austin
WR2_________Bryant
TE1__________Witten
FB/WR3/TE2__ Vickers/?????/Philips

Not sure how much your list changes, but for me I only give the Packers a clear advantage.
Falcons, Bears, Steelers, Chiefs.....not a chance.
Eagles, Saints, Lions, Texans and Giants are in the same category with the Cowboys a couple notches below the Packers. I'd have no problem ranking the Boys 7th or 2nd.

 

[TheFinisher]

You forgot QB! The idea here is to rate the offensive players outside of the OL.

QB___________Romo
RB___________Murray/Jones
WR1_________Austin
WR2_________Bryant
TE1__________Witten
FB/WR3/TE2__ Vickers/?????/Philips

Not sure how much your list changes, but for me I only give the Packers a clear advantage.
Falcons, Bears, Steelers, Chiefs.....not a chance.
Eagles, Saints, Lions, Texans and Giants are in the same category with the Cowboys a couple notches below the Packers. I'd have no problem ranking the Boys 7th or 2nd.

Oh my fault, I never really consider QB a "skill" position on offense... usually just associate it with RB, WRs and TEs. I put QB in it's own category.

I still think Ryan, Cutler and Roethlisberger are in a similar tier to Romo though so I don't know how much that would effect my rankings. Carolina comes into the equation also now that I know we're including QBs. Chiefs would probably drop a little now, Cassel holds them back.

 

[DFWJC]

Oh my fault, I never really consider QB a "skill" position on offense... usually just associate it with RB, WRs and TEs. I put QB in it's own category.

I still think Ryan, Cutler and Roethlisberger are in a similar tier to Romo though so I don't know how much that would effect my rankings. Carolina comes into the equation also now that I know we're including QBs. Chiefs would probably drop a little now, Cassel holds them back.

IMO, yourChiefs rating was incomprehensible ....so far off it was not worth mention. :laugh2:

But to each his own

 

[erod]

This is all great, but football is about offensive and defensive lines and quarterbacks.